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Post by djtanng on Jun 14, 2017 16:01:20 GMT -6
I'm with OP on this. I also feel the sting of a bad choice from a bad poll. That poll should have never happened at all, because the only people who could vote were like the 2% that even knew that there was a poll at all, and the majority of them just happened like cartoons more than the immersive mystic style game that it could have been. I hope Bloodstained 2 doesn't make this same mistake.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 14, 2017 16:45:48 GMT -6
I'm with OP on this. I also feel the sting of a bad choice from a bad poll. That poll should have never happened at all, because the only people who could vote were like the 2% that even knew that there was a poll at all, and the majority of them just happened like cartoons more than the immersive mystic style game that it could have been. I hope Bloodstained 2 doesn't make this same mistake. If this truely is a mistake, there will never be an Bloodstained 2. Lack of information and a bunch of imagination was key for those that actually voted, and kudos to them for being so active about it. You should also bare in mind that IGA choice them first and couldn't decide, and let the community take on a vote. Since he already approved it, it could have had ended up in the game anyhow.
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Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
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[TI0] Game On!
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Post by Redogan on Jun 14, 2017 19:10:47 GMT -6
As a huge advocate of the realistic shader, I have to say that the current (painterly) shader is filling my expectations for Bloodstained nicely. I don't/wouldn't consider the shader choice a mistake. Far from it in fact. As a community, we need to move forward and not dwell on things long past and unchangeable (such as the shader that is used).
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Post by dareka on Jun 14, 2017 19:38:50 GMT -6
As a huge advocate of the realistic shader, I have to say that the current (painterly) shader is filling my expectations for Bloodstained nicely. I don't/wouldn't consider the shader choice a mistake. Far from it in fact. As a community, we need to move forward and not dwell on things long past and unchangeable (such as the shader that is used). And remember that the backer community chose this shader, which means far more people would be disappointed if were not used for the game.
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Post by thor777 on Jun 15, 2017 11:16:12 GMT -6
I also feel that the character models' art style doesn't work well with the environment. I backed the project based on the concept art presented on the kickstarter page. Since then, the game has progressed more and more away from the original vision of the game. I really hope Iga and his team will be able to make the necessary changes/updates so that the game feels more coherent artistically.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 15, 2017 13:29:03 GMT -6
I also feel that the character models' art style doesn't work well with the environment. I backed the project based on the concept art presented on the kickstarter page. Since then, the game has progressed more and more away from the original vision of the game. I really hope Iga and his team will be able to make the necessary changes/updates so that the game feels more coherent artistically. Kickstarter page:
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Ciel
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じーっ
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Post by Ciel on Jun 15, 2017 13:37:46 GMT -6
I also feel that the character models' art style doesn't work well with the environment. I backed the project based on the concept art presented on the kickstarter page. Since then, the game has progressed more and more away from the original vision of the game. I really hope Iga and his team will be able to make the necessary changes/updates so that the game feels more coherent artistically. Kickstarter page: *images*
I think he is talking about the more painterly look, different from the realistic backgrounds we have for now.
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Post by thor777 on Jun 15, 2017 14:31:50 GMT -6
The current demo is no where near 'general idea of the game's feel' presented in the concept art, which has a more hand-painted feel. The pseudo-realistic environment in the demos is such a contrast that I don't think it falls into the 'general idea'.
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exile
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Post by exile on Jun 15, 2017 15:05:17 GMT -6
I, too, think the concept art is absolutely gorgeous, but I understand why they couldn't feasibly do an entire game that way. On the budget they have, I think the team is doing a really splendid job so far. Nothing is ever perfect, but I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that what we've seen doesn't appear to be an updated take on SoTN, which is exactly what was promised.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jun 15, 2017 17:08:33 GMT -6
Im not dissapointed, this is why... Many of us fell in love with the SotN brand of Castlevania games for years. We were spoiled by the almost yearly consistent release of new high quality (low budget) Castlevania games. Iga's games had an almost indie feel before the indie scene really took off. 2D games were a rarity in those days. Konami decided Castlevania should be a more mainstream AAA title so after Order of Ecclesia 10 YEARS AGO we never got another Iga title. The Lords of Shadow games just didn't feel the same. And (at least in my opinion) indie games immitating the metroidvania formula pale in comparison. I'm sure you already know all that but my point is... most of us in the forums waited a decade for another game like this and the fact that it exists is enough. You're talking to people that still play games from the early 90's on a regular basis . We don't give a shit if Miriams hair isn't bouncy enoughYes! This entirely! L O V E <3 I can definitely see your point on the whole 3D vs cell shaded 2D, aindriu , I really do! And in retrospect, it can definitely throw a lot of perceptions off. I totally get it. I think the reason why so many of us are so attached to this is because Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night is a revival of something we thought was a dead battery... When I backed Bloodstained, I was SO excited to see another IGAvania game! The Lord of Shadows timeline just didn't do it for me, and I quickly lost interest in Castlevania as a whole. Seeing Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night brought about a new yearning in me; I wanted this game to happen. I didn't care whether the game was 2D, 2.5D, or 3D; I saw IGA's image, and immediately fell in love. It was the Castlevania that I had fallen in love with, but with a new resurgence. A new set of lungs, if you will. I LOVED it. If there's know-how to be said for gameplay, let it be known for Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. It'll play like a traditional IGAvania, and that's all I care about. Hopefully even though the aesthetics throw you off, you can still play this game and enjoy it for what it is reminiscent of, or if you're like me, love it for those absolutely O R I G I N A L mechanics...
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Post by Valtiel on Jun 16, 2017 0:50:51 GMT -6
I'd prefer if the environments used a cell shaded look like the character models, but as things are now I still think the game is looking pretty good. A few areas shown look pretty sloppy but that's to be expected with the game's release so far out. The graphics have improved a lot over the past few months. This was never going to compete with AAA titles in terms of graphics but considering the budget and size of the game I'm happy with how things are progressing.
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exile
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Post by exile on Jun 16, 2017 7:31:05 GMT -6
One thing I failed to notice earlier which probably accounts for at least some of the disconnect I'm feeling with certain backgrounds is that they feature absolutely no weathering effects; they're geometrically flawless. No cracks, chips, stains, moss, nothing. Just smooth and perfect, as if they were built the day before. I know part of the procedural generation program added these effects in here and there. What happened?
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 16, 2017 8:03:56 GMT -6
One thing I failed to notice earlier which probably accounts for at least some of the disconnect I'm feeling with certain backgrounds is that they feature absolutely no weathering effects; they're geometrically flawless. No cracks, chips, stains, moss, nothing. Just smooth and perfect, as if they were built the day before. I know part of the procedural generation program added these effects in here and there. What happened? Cough cough We were looking at the chapel which is typically the most pristine looking locations in these games, but there are definitely chips and cracks and other details like that thanks to the procedural system they have in place.
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exile
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Post by exile on Jun 16, 2017 9:12:54 GMT -6
Oh, I'm perfectly aware of that stage, which is why I noted "with certain backgrounds." It seems such a stark contrast to have part of the castle dilapidated while other appear brand new. I know some will be more worn than others, but still.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 16, 2017 9:17:17 GMT -6
Oh, I'm perfectly aware of that stage, which is why I noted "with certain backgrounds." It seems such a stark contrast to have part of the castle dilapidated while other appear brand new. I know some will be more worn than others, but still. If anything shouldn't we get more pristine vibrant locations? We have a boat that's beaten down and battered, we have a village that is in shambles, we have an entrance with wear and tear. I think it'd be better for the game if not every location is like that but there's a greater mix to it's feel. Let's not forget this isn't a castle that's existed for 100's of years like the one in Aria of Sorrow. This is a castle that just appeared a few years back by the time you're playing it. It'd make more sense for it to look nicer than beaten completely down. I know what you mean by stark contrasts but at the end of the day we are seeing bits and pieces and the connecting elements and how the castle comes together as a whole will probably make more sense than seeing a location one at a time. I mean in SOTN you had really nice looking areas and then you had beaten down locations with bridges that broke apart. There's always been a mix. Are you just saying that the chapel doesn't seem to have much procedural elements applied to it compared to the entrance area? In that sense you might be right but they're also not pointing it out to us in an obvious way.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 16, 2017 10:42:36 GMT -6
I think, even though the castle is from hell, it needs to materialize into our world, and by doing this, it is pretty much created from scratch. So.. If this is the lore they are having, it makes sense to have it "perfect". But in a boss room (a nasty one) it would be a treat to actually have the environment damaged to a higher degree.
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exile
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Post by exile on Jun 16, 2017 12:21:50 GMT -6
I mean in SOTN you had really nice looking areas and then you had beaten down locations with bridges that broke apart. There's always been a mix. Are you just saying that the chapel doesn't seem to have much procedural elements applied to it compared to the entrance area? In that sense you might be right but they're also not pointing it out to us in an obvious way. I guess it's mostly this. I was in a hurry, so I didn't get to articulate myself as well as I'd like. Basically, what I meant was that, while I certainly enjoy variety, there should be an overall consistency of style. For instance, in Diablo 3 (which I think has absolutely top-notch, phenomenal art direction, though it was very divisive among longtime fans of the series), most of the world is bleak, broken, and crumbling. Nevertheless, there are bits and pieces that are beautiful. There's even a rainbow in there somewhere. I love contrast and I think it heightens the overall experience. Although I pointed to cracks and chips and such, my bigger qualm is just that the castle appears far too "perfect" in areas. Even if it's new and in good condition, the walls, pillars, windows, etc. will not be flawless pieces of geometry. Having them so inhumanly clean is like evidence of bad CGI in movies - it rings false, because in the real world, any background of that size, even well-maintained, is bound to have the occasional oddity or blemish. Another way to think of this is how certain studios have advanced their facial graphics to include small imperfections like the barely perceivable wrinkle when a character smiles or a tiny freckle or mole here and there, because an absolutely smooth, perfect face seems like a plastic doll. The same goes for buildings/scenery.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 16, 2017 13:25:12 GMT -6
I mean in SOTN you had really nice looking areas and then you had beaten down locations with bridges that broke apart. There's always been a mix. Are you just saying that the chapel doesn't seem to have much procedural elements applied to it compared to the entrance area? In that sense you might be right but they're also not pointing it out to us in an obvious way. There's even a rainbow in there somewhere. Whimseyshire is like one big rainbow-land. But yeah, there is one at a waterfall right before you fight goatmen in some area.I love contrast and I think it heightens the overall experience. Although I pointed to cracks and chips and such, my bigger qualm is just that the castle appears far too "perfect" in areas. Even if it's new and in good condition, the walls, pillars, windows, etc. will not be flawless pieces of geometry. Having them so inhumanly clean is like evidence of bad CGI in movies - it rings false, because in the real world, any background of that size, even well-maintained, is bound to have the occasional oddity or blemish. That type of CGI in movies are horrible. I think filters could be applied actually upon the backdrops, keep a few very gorgeous but plenty into being dark goth. I understand all of the viewpoints and a balance between these would make is really nice. I have to say that you really caught the words spot on: "Having them so inhumanly clean is like evidence of bad CGI in movies - it rings false, because in the real world, any background of that size, even well-maintained, is bound to have the occasional oddity or blemish."Another way to think of this is how certain studios have advanced their facial graphics to include small imperfections like the barely perceivable wrinkle when a character smiles or a tiny freckle or mole here and there, because an absolutely smooth, perfect face seems like a plastic doll. The same goes for buildings/scenery. We need dolls as enemies.. Just realised.
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exile
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Post by exile on Jun 16, 2017 13:58:13 GMT -6
We need dolls as enemies.. Just realised. You know what, I think that's the best thing to come of this dialogue. I fully agree, I think dolls would actually match the feel of this game, and they'd make a really cool addition. Good call! You could even have a Miriam doll ala the Alucard vs. Alucard fight. Sure, blatant ripoff, but fine by me!
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Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
Fifty Storms
[TI0] Game On!
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Post by Redogan on Jun 16, 2017 16:20:37 GMT -6
"...use whatever you find. Even the doll, if it please you. Hehehe..."
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