lai
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Post by lai on Aug 1, 2019 23:07:11 GMT -6
I shouldn't have made a blanket statement like that and I have edited that post accordingly. Jinrai is more the exception than the rule (the parries are as well, at least in my experience) and I should have specified that most techniques feel/are numerically inferior to shards barring a few exceptions. I wasn't criticizing you specifically, sorry if it sounded that way. It was in a broader sense because these past weeks I've seen a lot of people dismissing the other shards as trash/useless when in reality they aren't, at least in my experience. It's fine, I know you weren't criticizing me. I was criticizing myself for making a mistake I shouldn't have.
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lai
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Post by lai on Aug 1, 2019 21:22:41 GMT -6
Technique Buffs are welcome as they were completely overshadowed by even the most basic shards. While I'm not against buffing things (be it the player or enemies), be aware that this is your opinion. I personally spent half the game spamming Jinrai for how strong and fun to use it is. I had a blast using it to my heart's content and not even once I felt I was missing out on"more powerful" shards or techniques. Hell it made some bosses trivial like that one in the desert area. So, to me, your statement makes no sense.
I shouldn't have made a blanket statement like that and I have edited that post accordingly. Jinrai is more the exception than the rule (the parries are as well, at least in my experience) and I should have specified that most techniques feel/are numerically inferior to shards barring a few exceptions.
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lai
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Post by lai on Aug 1, 2019 12:34:02 GMT -6
Nerfing Craftwork was a surprise. Were speedrunners doing something crazy with it or was something found out regarding it? Either way... Interesting. Nope, this is definitely the change that seems the most out of left field. My current theory as to why it was nerfed was that it is a free dps booster if you have the finger dexterity for it even if it isn't a very good one.
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lai
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Post by lai on Aug 1, 2019 12:04:30 GMT -6
As to be expected, there's barely any discussion around the effects of the nerfs. It's mostly just people upset that there are nerfs.
So these nerfs barely change anything (except Welcome Company, that's a heavier hit than I expected, would've just reduced the number and called it a day). Technique buffs are welcome as the majority were completely overshadowed by even the most basic shards. Given what we've seen so far, I'm going to assume the technique changes will be equally minor to the majority of the shard and weapon changes.
Boss adjustments are surprising though. I need details before I can really comment on it though. Gremory is a perfectly designed boss as she is right now so I'm not sure why she's being changed though tbh I'm dreading the prospect of redoing the fight for the guide if she was changed in a major way but that's a personal gripe. Orobas and Valefor changes being announced is odd. They're both overall easier bosses with Orobas being a breather in the middle of a challenging boss streak and Valefor is piss easy if you go into the fight poor, so I think they might make the fights harder, but I'm still curious as to what direction the devs will take since while they are easy they aren't 100% brain-dead either.
Capping Valefar's hp makes sense although it is tragic that my super-poison research is going to be much harder to do once the patch drops so I might be keeping an old version on my pc just for that.
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Post by lai on Jul 31, 2019 14:40:01 GMT -6
However, we can only vote for one boss? ehhhh haha I had to make the choice of who I liked the most so you will all suffer with me! muahahaha!
Glutton Train is a symptom of the, pardon the pun, trainwreck of an area that preceeds him. It boils down to a wildly unnecessary time limit. Given that the boss itself must be defeated in that allotted time, it really limits just how hard or complicated that boss would be. Imagine if he was an actually good, difficult, or complicated boss. Then people would complain about having to rush it and make mistakes, or complain about having to go through the whole train again. At first when I read this I thought "Wait didn't I say that already?" then I checked the post. I knew I missed something in the copy and paste, thank you! (Re?)added a point on the Glutton train entry. It's a shame that it did end up that way since all the fight really has is the spectacle of Zangetsu which is just completely cut out on hard/nightmare. I think they could've gotten away with making it a bit more difficult.
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Post by lai on Jul 30, 2019 16:41:36 GMT -6
Some Background on me: I grew up playing IGA’s castlevania’s namely OOE which was the game that not only got me into gaming but taught me the joy in always try to improve, to do more than learn but to partially master every game I play. To that end I decided to make a guide on beating all of ROTN’s bosses on a nightmare new game file using only equipment, passive shards, and skill shards. NOTE: I began writing this before it came to light that IGA made all of his boss designers beat their bosses without getting hit so this info will not be accounted for in the analysis. Criteria: All fights will be evaluated by no hit no shard attempts on nightmare ( view my guide to see where I’m coming from). Will not be accounting for where you fight them or the visuals of the fight unless they are intrusive or worth pointing out All measurements are out of 20 Design: what makes the boss interesting or unique, are the methods for dodging intuitive or obtuse? 0=uninspired, kinda bland, basic attacks or mechanics.10=good, interesting attacks and mechanics, either hard to dodge 20= unique interesting attacks, clear dodge methods Difficulty: How difficult is the boss is, fairness is important here although I’m more likely to dock points for being too easy 0=boss is really easy, or unfairly challenging. 10=boss difficulty is forgettable, 20=boss is hard but each time I get beat I know why. Fun: How much fun I had fighting the bosses, purely subjective. Next to the name of each boss will be these criteria in this order: Design, Difficulty, Fun #21Abyssal Guardian 0, 0, 0
With the only perfect 0 score on this list Abyssal Guardian is in my opinion the worst boss in Bloodstained.
Where do I begin? It’s just a giant dragon reskin with slow, telegraphed attacks that the normal dragons have just bigger. It isn’t even that difficult as a result and Bloodless, who you are supposed to fight before this boss, has more HP. There really isn’t anything going for this guy outside of being an uninspired roadblock before the Hall of Termination.
Also the “past boss as regular enemy” trope is among my least favorite in all of gaming so any points I might have given this boss for fun are now just dust in the wind.
#20
Craftwork 0, 0, 2
Craftwork was going to be higher but then I discovered that you can avoid his charge by crouching… really? How is anyone supposed to figure that out? It doesn’t help that once you learn this Craftwork is an extremely easy boss, there’s a bit of fun to be had watching this thing move around but that’s it. A dull boss fight just for the ability to move a few things in the entire game.
#19Glutton Train 3, 0, 2
On Normal I’d actually rank this fight higher if only slightly, having Zangetsu help adds another level of creativity to the fight itself that it otherwise sorely lacks because without Zangetsu to carry us, this fight is extremely dull, easy, and tedious. The train only has 3 attacks each one slow and telegraphed long before the actual attack. You just dodge and swing at the tongue until you win. No strategy, no planning, just move, swing, move, swing, and let Zangetsu finish it because this fight is dull. I get that they were trying to make bearable since you have to redo the train segment each time you want a go at this boss but they also just made the fight really boring which works too I suppose.
#18
Gebel 5, 0, 0
WHY U SO EASY! Funnily enough this fight is easier without shards because you are less likely to kill him by accident.
To put it simply Gebel just feels anticlimactic. He’s just a watered down version of Dominique and OD and by watered down I mean a drop of soda in a swimming pool. He’s slow, fragile, and doesn’t even hit that hard. Usually the “bad end” bosses in IGA’s games are some of the best, most challenging bosses, Sisters, Albus, Hugh, Richter, here? He’s just a road-bump before the Den of Behemoths or a bad ending.
Slicing the moon is cool though I wish it was used more in the game. Points for that, but other bosses do his shtick but much better so down here he goes.
#17
Bael 10, 2, 2
Chaos did not age well. Oh wait, wrong game. Bael is a disappointing final boss.
I get what they where trying to go for: recreate that abstract weird boss that was Chaos back in Aria of Sorrow. Problem is that while Chaos works thematically within AOS, the fight itself is really easy, simple, and plain when you get down to the basics (hit eyes then hit circle, hit hit hit and maybe dodge). Bael doesn’t have any of the thematic relevance Chaos had so what’s left? A bare-bones final boss that really needs another phase. He hits hard, I’ll give him that, but when a fight can basically be summed up as “spam divekicks” there’s only so many points I can give in design and difficulty.
That being said: As a former Divekick pro (I initially backed Bloodstained using my winnings) I can appreciate the art, but even I’ve got my limits. I really like the idea of a boss being the room itself and it is something I hope IGA revisits in the future. So points for these two things.
#16
Andrealphus 0, 15, 10
Andrealphus is dull, uninspired, and utterly forgettable. That being said, the fight is actually pretty good. Despite the metal bird having a limited and boring moveset, this boss is far from easy. Andrealphus is quick, slippery, and hard to read at a moments notice making good use out of its limited toolset. Being the boss you have to fight for the double jump, he certainly makes you earn it.
#15
Orobas 20, 5, 5
Orobas doesn’t deserve to be this low. On nightmare the creativity in this fights design really shines through as his attacks completely change in how you need to act depending on whether or not he’s inverted, but he’s so slow most of the time it’s easy to get out of the way regardless. This fight would be a lot higher if he was just more difficult but as he is now, just something to do before getting invert, he’s staying down here.
#14
Bathin 15, 15, 3
Ok, right after the snooze fest that was the train fight, we have an actual boss. He’s actually pretty easy all things considered each of his moves have a clear dodge method and the way you dodge some of these can be pretty creative while being intuitive.
There is one exception though, his reflector ray. On normal this move is no problem, on hard/nightmare, this move will be responsible for almost all of your no damage attempt resets. The sad thing is that there’s only one singular problem with this attack, it is too damn fast. You have at most a quarter-second to get a good look at the final path he’s going to take and even if you do find a safe spot he can just slide right into you after the attack is over. If they just added an extra half-second so you can actually see the laser be still then this attack would be much easier and consistent to avoid, but as it is right now, just pray you are timing your technique invulnerability frames right.
#13
Valefar 15, 15, 12
I actually like this guy more after fighting him with fortune in tow. The fact that the amount of money you have actually matters is hilarious especially when you enter the fight broke. There might be a bit of sentimental value here because I discovered super poison against this guy and still haven’t figured out how it works.
There are two major hurdles in this fight, the spikes on the ceiling and coin flip attack. The former can be circumvented by just having the Aegis Plate on a shortcut (or just have it equipped for the full fight if you don’t want to use the slot). The latter is much trickier, I discovered that you can destroy the coins with melee attacks and simple jumps will suffice during the first phase. However, during the second phase, slashing the coins out of the air is a must as there are just too many to dodge. Unfortunately, the coins can bounce at some pretty weird angles meaning that any non-Rhava weapon to destroy the coins will result in you being hit eventually.
As much as I don’t really like the spikes I get why they are there though, to prevent invert cheese and to force precise platforming against his chips attack. The chip attack is one that always stood out to me, being one of the few attacks in the game that require precision platforming to avoid. Unfortunately, this challenge is completely negated by using the Aegis Plate rendering the point kinda moot. Points for trying though.
#12
Doppelganger 10, 20, 16
Ok I’m gonna be honest, I’ve never been a fan of Doppelganger fights in IGA’s games so immediate docked points on design for that but that doesn’t mean this is a bad fight. Far from it, Doppelganger is a fast, challenging, and rewarding fight.
There is no easy way of fighting her you need to space and anticipate her attacks and dodge accordingly. Doppelganger’s difficulty is The only move I really have an issue with is her flamethrower, which is unavoidable if you are cornered and it comes out in one frame, meaning the only way to avoid it is to anticipate it. Thankfully you don’t have to worry about her doing it out of nowhere, she will only use it after one of her other attacks. Still that comes out fast so you need to play around it for the entire fight. Which kinda kills the enjoyment, since it is less a spacing game and more “run like hell after 2 hits because frame 1 moves are fun.”
At its best, though this is a tight mirror match that demands reflexes as well as caution, but in my opinion there is a better mirror match in this game.
#11
8-bit 16, 20, 10
This fight is very different depending on whether you are using shards/guns or not. Without ranged weapons this fight turns into a bit of a slog as you need to get close against a boss that you have to be far away from to dodge. This can be slightly circumvented with good planning but by the time phase 2 hits that only nets you 1 or 2 attacks. Usually this wouldn’t be too bad but combined with the head-only hitbox and the fact that 8-bit has the second most health in the game the fight slows to a grinding halt as you dodge attack after attack only whittle down what small amount of health he’s got left.
On the plus side, he actually punishes invert cheese by covering the ceiling in an endless stream of fire unless you invert back to normal and his attacks are hard to dodge but the method is clear from the get go. Oddly enough I actually have an easier time dodging most of his attacks once phase 2 hits, even if I can’t get in to attack. His fire stomp comes down faster so there’s less waiting involved to avoid it and the extra fire wave on the ceiling outlines the perfect path you need to take to dodge.
While with range, most of my problems with this boss go away, but that does not excuse how quickly this fight’s pacing drops like a rock if you don’t use ranged weapons.
#10
Gremory 20, 20,10
Confession: she’s this low purely due to my personal grudge against this boss and she probably deserves higher, but goddamnit I spent 5 hours to no hit her, she’s being docked points for causing me mental scars.
Overall, Gremory is a superb “Death” fight. Clear, telegraphed attacks that still require a bit of effort to actually dodge and props for actually being designed around the invert ability with some of her attacks actually requiring it to dodge if you don’t plan on abusing shields/invulnerable frames. As an end-game boss she hits as hard as she needs to and the Zangetsuto dealing guaranteed crits against her is a nice touch that adds to the set-up around the fight. That being said her crescents are complete RNG, sometimes being in your only path of escape or just spawning on top of you, and ruin this fight for me personally. I’d be fine with them if they contrasted better with the background but they kinda blend in with everything, making dodging and destroying them a risky prospect.
#9
Alfred 20, 18, 15
Alfred is a fight I personally love just from the design alone. Probably one of the most unique takes on the “endless corridor chase” boss I have seen in a game. Instead of one long horizontal chase, the room is a small circle to prevent gun cheese, but it also has the benefit of almost always keeping Alfred in sight, so you’re never blindsided by his ranged attacks. As a chase boss, keeping on Aflred’s back is top priority but the room’s design also means you can run the other way to intercept him.
On the other hand, Alfred is probably the only boss on this list I docked difficulty points for being too hard. His potions come out lightning quick sometimes and Accursed Order’s tracking can range from meh to “will do a U turn to ruin fight.” Then there’s his timeslow aka you might as well restart the fight because dodging or chasing while you are in its effect is almost impossible. Even if you aren’t going for no damage, this attack alone can spell doom to anyone who tries to finish this old man off.
Docked points for fun because while Alfred is the best take on this type of fight yet, it’s still a chase fight with all the grievances and frustrations of trying to catch up to him it entails.
#8
Valac 20, 20, 17
This, my friends, is a spectacle boss done right. Big, intimidating, yet claustrophobic at the same time and it does this without making the attacks either too easy to avoid or unreasonable.
First the cons, Valac much like Bael has weirdly shifting hitboxes that make no-hit runs harder than they should be forcing me to stay back when it really feels like I should be going on the offensive. His Jaw crush is also impossible to know how to avoid on a first attempt. This fight can also be cheesed in a sense since you can rapid-fire divekicks off of the right head during the first fire breath attack.
The pros? Everything else. The idea of a boss being the walls is quite novel and most of Valac’s attacks have pretty clear dodge methods right from the get-go. He also hits as hard as a dragon that big should. There’s a fair bit of creativity in the design of the fight as well. You slowly descend the tower as the fight progresses both chasing and being chased by the boss. Both heads will attack in tandem, creating tight dodge timings but the heads will attack separately first to foreshadow where the openings on the tandem attacks will be, prime example being the tongue attacks. The only thing they really missed here in terms of design was combining the heads ala cotm but that would admittingly ruin the whole “surrounded” aspect of the fight.
#7
Zangetsu 1 20, 20, 18
I was initially going to dock points for Zangetsu being too difficult, but when I thought it over I realized that Zangetsu is more fair than I initially believed.
As the second boss of the game, it is Zangetsu’s job to shatter any confidence you might’ve had and oh boy does he do a good job. He’s fast, hits hard, and you don’t have many options to use against him outside of your starting ones. Which is my main issue with this boss, he’s still loads of fun, but being limited in options hurts more here than it does any other fight. He’s just begging to be divekicked over. However, Zangetsu follows a very strict rhythm that I don’t exactly get it I know it exists so any hits I take are definitely more my poor timing than anything else. It’s an intense fight through and through but the spots that remind you how limited your tools are hurt the enjoyment just a bit.
#6
Zangetsu 2 19, 20, 20
Sooo close, my only gripe with this fight is how obtuse the dodge solutions to his hard/nightmare exclusive ofuda attacks are. I’m talking specifically about the 1 hit kill attack or DOOM ofuda as I like to call it. I looked all over youtube and the only consistent method of getting out was one I found on my own, by accident. How on earth you’re supposed to figure out that inverting while the circle is trying to move will get you out of that attack is beyond me.
That aside Zangetsu’s rematch is one of the most fun fights in the game and would’ve been perfect if avoiding the DOOM ofuda was more consistent/intuitive. He’s fast, hits hard, and can take hits like a champ. He uses the same basic moveset throughout the fight but his elemental mode changes how you need to react to some of his attacks. Flame kunai need to be given a wide berth, thunder kunai spawn a vertical pillar of lightning, and ice kunai shoot out ice shards that you also have to dodge. His slams also change depending on his element but they follow suit in how you need to react to them.
In hard/nightmare he has new screen filling ofuda attacks that are creative, hard to dodge, and yet finding how to dodge them isn’t actually all that difficult. Flame ofuda can be destroyed by melee, lightning has clear dodge points and a safespot all the way on the right, and ice needs precise timing to avoid cleanly. These new attacks and how Zangetsu subtly changes his attacks across the phases put him at a near perfect score.
#5Vepar: 20, 20 ,20
This is probably one of my more controversial picks given the discussions I’ve seen around this boss, but this is my list, my choice.
On normal I don’t believe Vepar to be all that great of a fight, yeah she looks cool, but she is all too easy to just beat down and move on, mid-tier boss at best. On nightmare? Completely different story. Not only does she now actually have the damage to back up her size, she as a brand new attack to give everyone thinking they could just blow through nightmare with violence alone a harsh lesson in restraint.
Of course I’m referring to her new water gun attack that everyone but me seems to absolutely hate. This attack is amazing as it teaches players to be careful while also telling them to not be “too careful”. There is a delicate balance between hiding between the seamas and not being killed by them. You can stunlock them with attacks, but if you are too fast you’ll get hit by the water gun, too slow and the seamas will shoot you in the face. However you can’t always let the seamas live, Vepar will only do the water gun after spawning more seamas so you need to take them out ASAP if Vepar doesn’t prep the water gun so that you aren’t overwhelmed when the boss actually does it. This balance is design philosophy that is also present in OOE with bosses such as Rusalka and is one I absolutely love.
All perfect scores from here on, the ranking is now solely my personal opinions on the boss.
#4Bloodless: 20, 20, 20
Ah the sexy vampire turns out she’s an excellent boss fight too. Bloodless is probably the easiest boss with a perfect rating, but that doesn’t mean she’s bad. Far from it, she’s creative, difficult without being ridiculous, and a blast to go up against.
The creativity in this fight comes from how some of Bloodless’ attacks serve multiple purposes. Her umbrella attack creates drones you need to watch for but at the same time they can be divekicked off of for extra height or used as cover during Blood Rain. While Scarlet Cyclone at first looks like a simple laser attack, it is later revealed to be setting up the horrendously difficult to dodge Blood Rain. I’m a sucker for this kind of multi-purpose design as it makes paying attention to what’s happening now all the more important for avoiding attacks in the future.
Bloodless is a fight that demands you observe, react, and plan ahead. Even though most of her attacks can be dodged with well-timed double jumps, with the umbrellas in the air you need to be wary of when you land unless you want to find yourself falling helplessly into an attack. Then there’s the connection between Scarlet Cyclone and Blood Rain. The former will put blood on the ceiling for the latter and the way you are supposed to avoid it is to stand under the umbrellas. This is much harder than it sounds as Bloodless will go for a cheapshot during the Blood Rain, but there is a much easier way to avoid this whole scenario, just stand under a spot that isn’t covered in blood which you can easily set up by keeping the fight in one corner of the room. Unlike most bosses, Bloodless rewards strategy and planning over just straight aggression and reaction, making her a standout even among IGA’s other games.
#3
Dominique: 20, 20, 20
Ok before I move on to the fight can I just say I love Fryda Wolff’s voice here, she’s going full ham and it is a delight to listen to. Also Repentance is my favorite song in the game.
Unlike Gebel this is truly a mirror fight, Dominique has many of the same tools you do with extras. A whip, spells that cover the entire screen, divekicks and more. She not only has your tools but in some cases straight up better versions such as her Tis Rozain being two lasers instead of one. It’s always interesting seeing these attacks that share the same name as to what you use but are used in a completely different way such Riga Dohin being turned into a screen filler and movement inhibitor rather than a straight projectile.
Although she uses the moveset of a souped-up Gebel she did not inherit his speed, Dominique just might be one of the fastest bosses in the game. Her moves that come out quick have a short reach while her moves that don’t typically have a good half-second of start-up. Having these traits doesn’t mean that Dominique is easy, far from it. She’s much faster than Bael and hits just as hard. That being said, every one of her big attacks can be reacted to and dodged accordingly making this a fun fight through and though. Her faster attacks can all be avoided with proper spacing and her whip is slow enough to dodge on reaction making controlled aggression a viable strategy. She may be a bit on the fragile side and can be DPS’d down but that doesn’t mean she’s going to make it easy.
#2
OD: 20, 20, 20
Robbie Belgrade is back to voice another vampire and oh boy does it feel like fighting Alucard. From the way he moves, to the attacks he uses Robbie Belgrade voices another loveable OP vampire.
OD is actually a fairly slow boss for Nightmare/Hard difficulty so instead he’s tricky, many of his attacks (namely his spells) all have the same startup animation and speed. However all of these spells can be dodged on reaction by just divekicking off his head. As the fight goes on though he relies less on his spells and more on his quick teleports and transformations. This is a fight of reactions and planning, pure and simple. Whenever OD does anything you need to prepare for all possibilities, and that’s what’s so fun about this fight, keeping on the aggressive while also making sure you have enough space to get out of the way when he gets tricky.
I was going to dock points for the timestop but the non-shard solution is easy enough to figure out and I wasn’t even the only one who had the idea of using divekicks to dodge the sword and the ice this time. So perfect score for being one of the hardest bosses to read and a fun fight at the same time.
#1IGA 20, 20, 20
For what looks like a Dracula fight, it definitely doesn’t feel like one. IGA definitely has the traits fire, teleporting, head only hurtbox, etc, but in practice the fight is its own beast.
With only 6 attacks at most and yet he still manages to be a truly challenging boss regardless of how you fight him. His attacks can be lighting fast but they all have distinct and clear tells that let you know what’s coming. However just because they have clear telegraph's, doesn't mean that they are easy to dodge. Dodging IGA’s attacks requires a strict timing that is unique to each attack and each attack hits for a lot of damage. Despite this, IGA is always a blast to fight, never being frustrating or feeling unfair. If you get hit, it’s your fault. A consistent yet challenging fight that in turn demands consistency and speed from the player, and if you don’t meet those demands, say goodbye to your health bar.
IGA’s speed isn’t all there is to him though. The fight follows a form of rhythm he’ll use one of his spells and if you are close he can swing with the swordwhip before he uses another spell. This is important as without the brief delay given by the swordwhip he will throw spell after spell and you will get overwhelmed. Despite the intimidation factor, the safest place to be in this fight is in IGA’s face and as a more aggressive player I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. My favorite boss of all time takes the #1 spot.
Bonus: Things I discovered while making my guide: - You can crouch under Craftwork’s charge
- Valefar super poison glitch
- Valefar’s coin attack can be destroyed by melee (I have not found other videos showing this off)
- A consistent method of avoiding Zangetsu’s DOOM ofuda
- OD timestop dodge (technically this was also found by someone else parallel to me)
- IGA’s swordwhip blindspot (or at least I’m the first to exploit it)
So that's those are my rankings. Who's your favorite boss in ROTN? Is there any boss you think I should've rated higher? lower? Discuss and enjoy your day!
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lai
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Post by lai on Jul 26, 2019 15:50:57 GMT -6
But that's a glitch though and only effects one boss Only one boss so far. Still working on figuring out the specifics of this glitch.
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Post by lai on Jul 26, 2019 15:39:07 GMT -6
ooh thats almost 9999 damage. i guess the only way to be able to deal that much damage its by super poisoning valefar with 100k+ cash on you. also, have you tried bullet coin or the heavy axe from the axe knights in the glacial tomb? pretty sure those are heavy hitters. I completely forgot about my super-poison glitch! It deals 74,999 damage (or 75% of Valefar's max hp, 99,999) per tick, which I think is the undisputed highest damage number you can get in the game. Playlist of my research into the glitch here.Edit: Arcueid Brunestud I think I have you beat Edit 2: Setup: Poison weapon + loads of money + ??
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Post by lai on Jul 25, 2019 0:57:50 GMT -6
I've been hesitant to post here because while I'm an ardent (albeit non-vocal till now) supporter of the nerfs, I never really used any of the equipment that was nerfed. I know a lot of people did though and I feel as if I'm missing something that people who did use them get/feel because I decided not to use these in any of my playthroughs. There are only 3 nerfs that actually confuse me here: Rhava Velar, Craftwork, and Chase Arrow. Rhava because it's an endgame weapon that should be at least a little ridiculous and tbh I thought it was a bit weak compared to the rest. Craftwork is a free DPS booster if you don't have anything else, but if you have the finger dexterity to actually use it effectively you deserve it or who knows maybe they nerfed it because they didn't want people to kill their fingers. Chase Arrow is out of place because you get it a full third of the game later than Straight Arrow, which is only really broken because you can rank 6 it out of the gate and rank 9 with elemental ammo. I'm not sure if Chase Arrow is as easy to upgrade but even if it is, it should be stronger as you are only supposed to get it post-Bathin (although it can be gotten post Andrealphus which might be why it was hit and summon chair was not). As for the rest of the nerfs, I think they're fine. The way I see it is that people are attached to shards that helped carry them through the game and don't want to see them be brought in line with everything else, but I'm probably wrong somewhere there and as I said before I don't really use the nerfed shards or have any attachment to them so there is probably something I am missing. I understand where the devs are coming from in terms of preserving game flow and difficulty curve which some of the shards definitely break over their knee (bunny form, welcome company, dulla heads) and it is here where I support the nerfs. Personally, I'd rather have a game where I have to think for every step and action I take and ask "is this worth it" when I use a shard rather than just blowing through everything with the same stuff for the entire game.
Maybe Iga forgot that castlevania gained popularity because it was OP not because it was nerf. 65k ppl backed the game and crowdfunded 5.5m because they wanted a castlevania game where it is about OP not about nerf. I can't speak for everyone but I definitely didn't get into IGA's Castlevanias because I wanted to be OP. If I did, I wouldn't have bothered beating all the bosses with a stripped down toolset.
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lai
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Post by lai on Jul 23, 2019 12:57:11 GMT -6
Going to repost what I said on reddit here:
REPOST START
Interesting, OOE had a similar rule, but I believe only the lead tester (who was apparently really good) had to beat bosses without getting hit. It's cool that IGA's kept and expanded that idea.
Edit: I am curious as to what shards they were allowed to use though. I'm going to guess no shards were allowed given that dagger-only shardless is proven possible.
REPOST END
Going to add on a bit more here.
When a designer is making a boss they obviously know the ins and outs of every attack a boss can do. Things that are not immediately obvious to a player such as how to dodge OD's timestop, Craftwork's phase 2 charge, or Zangetsu's one hit kill ofuda on nightmare/hard are already known to the designer and thus the boss' designer is going to have an easier time doing a no-hit dagger only run than a player. This still doesn't explain why Alfred's timeslow is basically a run killer even when you're not going for no-hit but that's splitting hairs.
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Post by lai on Jul 22, 2019 15:19:18 GMT -6
lai Any plans for doing such a run? I know you've been doing no damage runs, though. I did no damage, no spell shards all bosses nightmare NG. I've considered doing a white/yellow/required shards only Nightmare NG playthrough and creating another guide for it. A guns only variation wouldn't be much different in practice until you reach the Sabnocks (this would be the first major hurdle). Overall, it would just be a slower, safer playthrough and it would become a game of patience and planning rather than platforming and action. Right now I'm still taking a break after finishing my guide, working on my boss rankings list, and some on-off research into a glitch I discovered so I won't be doing that kind of run any time soon, but an effectively shardless nightmare NG playthrough is something I've considered doing/may do after I finish my rankings list.
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Post by lai on Jul 20, 2019 11:42:55 GMT -6
I honestly have to ask... What have you been spending 90 hours on! ? I played through the game, got every shard, and even spent a good while upgrading most of them to level 9s all around. Also did all the sidequests available. Even if you did that on all three modes, I can't see how it racks up to over 90 hours.. Especially since you know what to do in the second and third playthrough.
.... Are you just wandering around in the game doing nothing or something?..
This: bloodstained.forums.net/thread/4260/beating-bosses-nightmare-damage-shardsEven if I wasn't making that guide, I refuse to beat bosses without getting medals and early nightmare NG is absolute hell if you don't have the right equipment. So my playthroughs are on average slower and I have had like 5 playthroughs: 3 fresh 2 NG+.
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Post by lai on Jul 20, 2019 0:23:07 GMT -6
Haven't submitted a proper form for this, but would like to get this out there: Valefar super poison.
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Post by lai on Jul 19, 2019 19:39:35 GMT -6
It just occurred to me but do we even have numbers on the nerfs? The only one we know for certain is Welcome Company being reduced to 3 paintings at base.
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Post by lai on Jul 19, 2019 13:27:31 GMT -6
Looks at changes.
Huh, RIP speed-runs I guess since both Welcome Company and bunnymorphosis were must-haves. Makes sense since a lot of the shards they nerfed have a bad tendency to kill bosses before the fight even begins.
Craftwork nerf makes a bit of sense? No one used it but I guess it could work as a poor man's Rhava
Increasing Dulla head hp seems out of nowhere. Even at 1 hp they were a pain, but at least a divekick was guaranteed to destroy them.
I don't use any of the nerfed weapons so I have no horse in that race.
The familiar changes are a mixed bag. Nerfing Dullahammer heads makes sense (they trivialize early hard/nightmare) although they should make the other familiars more aggressive first (looking at you silver knight). I'm not sure how to feel about the power redistribution though. On one hand it might make familiar levels actually matter on the other RIP familiars in nightmare.
Overall, I think the nerfs are fine although I don't normally use any of the nerfed shards/weapons so the impact on how I play will be relatively unaffected. I don't agree with nerfing in single player games on principle but most of these changes do make sense in the name of preserving the game's difficulty curve. I can see why they did this but I agree it is unnecessary.
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Post by lai on Jul 18, 2019 16:42:49 GMT -6
So the Abyssal Guardian vid is up and I have just beaten Zangetsu 2. Updated a few sections and the remaining videos will be coming out once per day (i.e. the same schedule I've been following). Also I think I have discovered the first guaranteed method of avoiding Zangetsu's one hit kill attack without shields or invuln.
In other news, I only have 2 bosses left to beat, Gebel and Valefar. I have decided that I'm not going to cheese Valefar by going in broke, I'll be going in with 1 million gold instead, wish me luck.
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Post by lai on Jul 16, 2019 13:52:12 GMT -6
Miriam the Backstabber was doing pretty remarkable DPS against the later bosses. She may not have had levels, but she must have been exploiting passive shards, equipment, and books for everything they were worth -- none of which is really possible before Vepar. Still, the video made Zangetsu 1 look really easy. I do wonder how much of that was luck and how much was exploiting/anticipating his AI. On another note, I'm ashamed I never realised you could head-stomp Valac while he breaths fire -- I boot-battled my way through as much of the game as I thought I could. I would say I was kicking myself, but I'm wearing these 32-bit Oleanders so the consequences could be dire. Zangetsu 1 probably was an AI exploit or more accurately exploiting his set rhythm of attacks to dodge early. I want to say I didn't come up with the Valac headstomp strat on my own, but I'm totally drawing a blank on where I found it, all the other nightmare no damage boss vids in my short search just dodge it normally, so as of right now I'll claim I figured out myself. It isn't immediately obvious and it isn't 100% consistent either (the further in you are the safer it is) so I wouldn't be surprised if I am among the first to document it. Still, it is an easier strat to pull off than actually dodging the fire, just need to land the first divekick.
In other news: I've beaten Glutton Train, Bathin, Abyssal Guardian, and Bloodless. Each of their sections have been updated accordingly. Glutton Train video is up now the others will follow day by day. EDIT: Alfred, Doppelganger, and Orobas are done too, their sections will be updated over time.
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