Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
Fifty Storms
[TI0] Game On!
Posts: 402
inherit
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
477
0
Nov 22, 2024 9:53:11 GMT -6
373
Redogan
[TI0] Game On!
402
Jul 31, 2015 16:51:36 GMT -6
July 2015
redogan
|
Post by Redogan on Mar 6, 2016 8:03:08 GMT -6
Here's a good video explaining how Arc System Works went about 2.5D for Guilty Gear Xrd, and why some of us think that a similar approach with a Castlevania aesthetic would suit Bloodstained. I can appreciate all the hard work ASW put in to create that look in GGXRD, but it looks too Saturday-morning-cartoons and not enough gothic realism.
|
|
inherit
45
0
Apr 4, 2023 1:04:01 GMT -6
648
Scars Unseen
[TI0]
560
Jun 8, 2015 23:16:31 GMT -6
June 2015
scarsunseen
|
Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 6, 2016 8:14:39 GMT -6
Here's a good video explaining how Arc System Works went about 2.5D for Guilty Gear Xrd, and why some of us think that a similar approach with a Castlevania aesthetic would suit Bloodstained. I can appreciate all the hard work ASW put in to create that look in GGXRD, but it looks too Saturday-morning-cartoons and not enough gothic realism. That has everything to do with their chosen aesthetic, and nothing to do with their process. It's not the aesthetic of Xrd that I - or I imagine most others that cited the game - wanted Bloodstained to follow, but rather ASW's dedication to the illusion of 2D and perhaps some of their techniques that allowed them to do so with such fantastic results. Though I personally want the "gothic" part of your description, and not the "realism" bit. That was never 2D Castlevania's thing.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Mar 6, 2016 8:17:01 GMT -6
A combo system in an igavania would kill what makes igavanias great. They're supposed to be quick flowing games. Not plant on ground smack out a combo with every type of enemy. The flow is tremendously important in games like that. I trust iGA would NOT implement something like that , and I believe he said he wouldn't for this very reason
|
|
JoJo
Most Bizarre Adventurer
Master Alchemist
[TI1] I'm Fabulous!!
Posts: 693
inherit
Most Bizarre Adventurer
3
0
Mar 3, 2020 19:00:29 GMT -6
342
JoJo
[TI1] I'm Fabulous!!
693
May 28, 2015 8:45:14 GMT -6
May 2015
maximusz09
|
Post by JoJo on Mar 6, 2016 8:34:21 GMT -6
A combo system in an igavania would kill what makes igavanias great. They're supposed to be quick flowing games. Not plant on ground smack out a combo with every type of enemy. The flow is tremendously important in games like that. I trust iGA would NOT implement something like that , and I believe he said he wouldn't for this very reason Well, it doesn't have to be so combo heavy like Devil May Cry A simple 3 button combo sequence would have suffice
|
|
inherit
45
0
Apr 4, 2023 1:04:01 GMT -6
648
Scars Unseen
[TI0]
560
Jun 8, 2015 23:16:31 GMT -6
June 2015
scarsunseen
|
Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 6, 2016 8:42:16 GMT -6
Probably the closest you're going to get to that is going to be weapon specials like we had in SotN.
|
|
Maker
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]
Posts: 109
inherit
300
0
Jun 2, 2018 15:27:49 GMT -6
80
Maker
[TI1]
109
Jul 11, 2015 12:33:30 GMT -6
July 2015
maker
|
Post by Maker on Mar 6, 2016 8:45:47 GMT -6
The reason I'd be against a dedicated combo system is simply because of smoothness of combat and ability to utilize tools to make your own. I don't know a good example that doesn't include Julius fom HD's Omina whip cancels but you get the idea. I'd rather they be the subject of tech then an actual game mechanic all to themselves. (this goes for a lot, not just combos mind you)
Mechanics > Actionss always
|
|
inherit
22
0
Aug 10, 2019 9:52:39 GMT -6
308
ghaleon
611
May 29, 2015 8:48:14 GMT -6
May 2015
ghaleon
|
Post by ghaleon on Mar 6, 2016 11:10:13 GMT -6
Personally I feel the combo system in Elsword is amazing, but yeah, iga already said he doesn't intend to have a combo system.
|
|
Astaroth
Fifty Storms
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
Posts: 1,213
inherit
57
0
Jan 4, 2022 11:47:39 GMT -6
1,368
Astaroth
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
1,213
Jun 10, 2015 20:22:05 GMT -6
June 2015
astaroth
|
Post by Astaroth on Mar 6, 2016 13:13:06 GMT -6
i do like the idea of giving weapons a sort of 2 or 3 animation 'combo' that doesnt change the properties of the weapon but instead makes miriam look more badass, like a 4 hit 'combo' with katanas where she performs the 4 basic cuts, and does a quick sheathing flourish if the next press times out or you reach the end of the 'combo' to prep for the start of the next swing, and if you attack in the air you can only get men (since its technically a falling strike >P), i especially think this one could be useful because dos introduced the draw cut but the sheathing animation made the weapon really slow to use on the ground, this could keep the aesthetics of that but allow up to 4 hits before the sheathing animation triggers, giving that weapon type better utility without having to give it insane damage to balance out its dos speed
i will be honest though, this kind of combat system is very animation heavy and would require a little extra programming for what basically amounts to timing adjustments and flourish, but if it was feasible it could make for a very interesting way to differentiate the weapon types further than usual and allow for a wider range of damage values to balance out attack speed vs /hit damage
|
|
Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
Fifty Storms
[TI0] Game On!
Posts: 402
inherit
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
477
0
Nov 22, 2024 9:53:11 GMT -6
373
Redogan
[TI0] Game On!
402
Jul 31, 2015 16:51:36 GMT -6
July 2015
redogan
|
Post by Redogan on Mar 6, 2016 13:16:26 GMT -6
I know a lot of people aren't fans of Mirror of Fate, but the whip combos in that game felt good to me. I especially liked the launch combos.
|
|
inherit
512
0
Feb 26, 2018 15:05:17 GMT -6
42
JordanJoestar
[TI0]† Knight Of Europe †
82
Aug 4, 2015 15:25:45 GMT -6
August 2015
jordanjoestar
|
Post by JordanJoestar on Mar 6, 2016 14:12:15 GMT -6
Beautiful 3D model and awesome music!
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Nov 22, 2024 16:16:48 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 7, 2016 7:56:26 GMT -6
The way Xrd looks isn't a fad, it's the best way that 2.5 has been done period.
Re: combos and whatnot, I understand where maximus is coming from here though...it would be too bad to have only singular attack animations for a 3D model. Instead of combos however, I think we can look forward to perhaps a good amount of crystal/alchemy and weapon specific specical moves, hopefully. I think the weapon variety should flavor the combat rather than combos, and I'd really not prefer anything like from MoF. He's already said as much that we're not going that route, though.
|
|
inherit
1183
0
Apr 1, 2018 17:04:01 GMT -6
13
Clockwork
[TI1]
13
Mar 2, 2016 9:50:22 GMT -6
March 2016
clockwork
|
Post by Clockwork on Mar 7, 2016 9:35:46 GMT -6
While I haven't done much research into how they made Xrd look the way it does. I do know that it looks amazing and I wouldn't mind other games trying the same thing. This doesn't mean every game should look exactly like Xrd though, but surely there would be some wiggle room to get the look you want using the same techniques.
Regarding the combo system though, I think the way Order of Ecclesia did it would work nicely. Where there are certain weapons which flowed nicely together when used in tandem. This could be applied to skills/magic in some way too. So while not a combo system per se, some skills would work nicely when used together (maybe the model could have custom animations to accompany this too?).
All in all, if a combo system is implemented in someway it should be kept short and sweet in my opinion (3-4 hits at most).
|
|
inherit
963
0
Jun 18, 2017 8:23:06 GMT -6
141
LunaClefairy
93
Dec 9, 2015 8:10:26 GMT -6
December 2015
lunaclefairy
|
Post by LunaClefairy on Mar 7, 2016 9:49:31 GMT -6
Regarding Guilty Gear Xrd's visual style, I heard a LOT of time and money went into making the game look the way it did. It isn't very feasible for an indie game like Bloodstained to pull off the exact same style, but I think a big company might be able to pull it off if they were willing to put in the time and effort. I'm very impressed with how well Inti Creates has done so far with its budget.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Mar 7, 2016 10:25:57 GMT -6
I know a lot of people aren't fans of Mirror of Fate, but the whip combos in that game felt good to me. I especially liked the launch combos. Yeah I mean I'm not against people liking that game but it's not at all what Igavania games are about. It's just weird to me ( personally) that people want something that has never been apart of Igavania's. The whole purpose of Bloodstained is to bring Igavania back! Just my take. You can do new things but a combo system would be very out of place imo. It changes the very pacing and feel of his games with something like that added. That doesn't mean you couldn't add certain weapons that have a unique slash VIBE to it. Like the ones in SOTN where you could slash insanely quick compared to other weapons, but again I personally wouldn't want IGA to veer to far away to what makes his games his.
|
|
Maker
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]
Posts: 109
inherit
300
0
Jun 2, 2018 15:27:49 GMT -6
80
Maker
[TI1]
109
Jul 11, 2015 12:33:30 GMT -6
July 2015
maker
|
Post by Maker on Mar 7, 2016 12:49:02 GMT -6
The thing about Xrd that you also need to remember is the amount of characters they have to do. Initially it was what 12-14 and they expanded on it semi rapidly over the next year and a half. I'd love to see that art style here myself as I'm a huge fan of anime, and I think it would work excellently in bloodstained. However, I don't think that the money we threw at Iga and crew for the game would go on to likely liscense this tech from ArcSys. Especially since they just created it and are learning as they build as well.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Mar 7, 2016 12:51:57 GMT -6
The thing about Xrd that you also need to remember is the amount of characters they have to do. Initially it was what 12-14 and they expanded on it semi rapidly over the next year and a half. I'd love to see that art style here myself as I'm a huge fan of anime, and I think it would work excellently in bloodstained. However, I don't think that the money we threw at Iga and crew for the game would go on to likely liscense this tech from ArcSys. Especially since they just created it and are learning as they build as well. I don't think it matters all that match regardless. The visuals based on the 3d model they've shown up in the last update is literally perfect for this style of game. It's 3d but it still has a very illustration vibe to it due to the vibrancy and watercolor look to her textures. They absolutely NAILED what they needed to visually, now they need to bring it home with the animation. The animation is one of the key elements that have to be right as it's an important quality of igavanias....beautiful animation.
|
|
inherit
1114
0
Dec 21, 2019 10:34:27 GMT -6
16
galcian
17
Feb 3, 2016 22:53:04 GMT -6
February 2016
galcian
|
Post by galcian on Mar 7, 2016 14:54:20 GMT -6
Guilty Gear is a fighting game. Combos are expected from that type of games nowadays. I am not expecting such type of gameplay from Bloodstained. Nor I personally want that. I enjoy 2D platformer/action games for what they are, been doing so since 1986. Castlevania? Was fine from my point of view. SoTN? Yeah, take the Metroid/Zelda formula of upgrades and apply with nice results.
I'm also fine with the 2.5D view. It doesn't HAVE to emulate or look like 2D to a t like Guilty Gear. I trust in Igarashi and the team's judgement. I enjoyed Dracula X Chronicles AND Mirror of Fate. Mighty fine games in my opinion, even if those are very different in their execution. Also the PSP Ultimate Gn'G game from Capcom.
I expect a game that looks good, avoids the Portrait of Ruin cheesiness and the excessive Dawn of Sorrow anime silliness. Maybe I just want another Order of Ecclesia or Circle of the Moon. Those are two Castlevanias that I really enjoyed. And were tough.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Mar 7, 2016 15:00:35 GMT -6
Guilty Gear is a fighting game. Combos are expected from that type of games nowadays. I am not expecting such type of gameplay from Bloodstained. Nor I personally want that. I enjoy 2D platformer/action games for what they are, been doing so since 1986. Castlevania? Was fine from my point of view. SoTN? Yeah, take the Metroid/Zelda formula of upgrades and apply with nice results. I'm also fine with the 2.5D view. It doesn't HAVE to emulate or look like 2D to a t like Guilty Gear. I trust in Igarashi and the team's judgement. I enjoyed Dracula X Chronicles AND Mirror of Fate. Mighty fine games in my opinion, even if those are very different in their execution. Also the PSP Ultimate Gn'G game from Capcom. I expect a game that looks good, avoids the Portrait of Ruin cheesiness and the excessive Dawn of Sorrow anime silliness. Maybe I just want another Order of Ecclesia or Circle of the Moon. Those are two Castlevanias that I really enjoyed. And were tough. I feel the same exact way. Mana ( not sure if they're going for a more mature experience but I hope so) I think it's important to stay away from the cutesy anime type silliness in this game. I think they should really drive home the history of the time period and make you feel like you're part of it like Order/SOTN did so well. Not to say it can't be funny, I just hope it stays away from things that take me out of the world. Taggin' mana for no other reason than me really loving your point and kinda hoping it gets to the team when it comes time to the dialogue and actions of the characters.
|
|
inherit
1114
0
Dec 21, 2019 10:34:27 GMT -6
16
galcian
17
Feb 3, 2016 22:53:04 GMT -6
February 2016
galcian
|
Post by galcian on Mar 7, 2016 15:15:50 GMT -6
I feel the same exact way. Mana ( not sure if they're going for a more mature experience but I hope so) I think it's important to stay away from the cutesy anime type silliness in this game. I think they should really drive home the history of the time period and make you feel like you're part of it like Order/SOTN did so well. Not to say it can't be funny, I just hope it stays away from things that take me out of the world. Taggin' mana for no other reason than me really loving your point and kinda hoping it gets to the team when it comes time to the dialogue and actions of the characters. THIS. Let NIS, Atlus, Natsume and Square-Enix cover the market with their exposition filled, silly and convoluted anime style RPG's. I want a side scroller action RPG with a more serious tone. Hopefully this is the one? Nintendo, who can make fantastic story driven games failed me with Other M (and no, it was not Team Ninja's influence, Samus weird attitude was all Sakamoto). Perhaps Bloodstained will fulfill my desires. I can only hope.
|
|
lod7
New Blood
Posts: 87
inherit
303
0
Apr 3, 2018 9:55:35 GMT -6
60
lod7
87
Jul 11, 2015 20:36:55 GMT -6
July 2015
lod7
|
Post by lod7 on Mar 7, 2016 15:23:32 GMT -6
Let us not confuse the anime influences of Dawn of sorrow with the amazing Aria of sorrow.
Although I agree with Xrd having spent a mini fortune on the animation with their game, this game does not require a multitude of specific frames and animations required to balance out the characters between other characters. I am almost certain that with the current budget of the game we can have a game that looks just as good as Xrd just does not have the high end fidelity animation Xrd has. I mean for only 3 months of real dev time on the shaders, the game has come so far.
Really looking forward to some animations.
|
|