Nezuto
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Post by Nezuto on Jun 25, 2019 4:03:55 GMT -6
Doesn't matter, still spoiled and further spoiled something for another player. That in itself was not right and things of that nature have had spoiler tags or the whispering smiley used to insert said spoilers, for a reason. Arikado Had wanted to be surprised and now no longer can be, which actually can ruin an experience for someone, at times. Besides, if something is labeled as 'Secret Boss', it usually speaks for itself as to what it is.....a secret to be found, not told. Edit: Also, just because it's a spoiler thread, doesn't mean we haven't all been using spoiler tags in our discussions. Some people truly wish to avoid those as much as possible. I never said O.D. is an optional boss Until he somehow come up with that Idea (which requires further digging out of the post), and you can complete the map under 99% and O.D. will never ask you to return the books until game ends and the castle vanishes, and it is too late.
So either way canonically Miriam may very well be in possession of at least one overdue book from O.D. Any way sorry about the Spoilers.
Onto the next post. When Alfred demonstrate both slow time and teleportation, are they both Enochian Script, whose main purpose is dimensional manipulation to summon spirits?
Also How did Zangetsu sealed its usage? I cannot see the text on his tailsman clearly, but his style seems a bit Buhhist. Edit: Nehan Jakujoh is specifically a Buddhist chant, and the tailsman writting is visibly Pali. However, neither have specific usage against teleportation. The flame pillars he used has four Chinese letters essentially meaning reality is falsehood and pretty colours is in the end merely an illusion.
Point is, whether you said Totally Not Alucard was optional or not you still spoiled something fairly big for another and shrugged it off with an 'oh well' attitude. Not going to argue this crap out, not worth it. I pointed out a fact, Arikado apparently agreed with the sentiment. No need to become a  |
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 25, 2019 4:46:57 GMT -6
If you're scratching your head wondering where the last hairstyle is, look here. And I thought I reached 100%... I have been looking for that everywhere. I went to see this and it's not in my version... 1.0.3 on Xbox. |
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Post by neff on Jun 25, 2019 7:19:28 GMT -6
My apologies for bringing up an old subject from earlier in the thread but I wanted to comment on it. As a Catholic, I am not at all bothered with how Dominique turned out. I ended up seeing some footage of the game from a streamer before release and became suspicious of her after the streamer pointed out how weird it was when she popped up at one of the sorcery labs. That combined with someone else mentioning that her portrait could be seen hanging on the walls of the castle, the later reveal of her being one of the Big Bads was not a big surprise.
As for her being a sign of the typical japanese "THE CHURCH IS EVIL TROPE", personally I doubt it went that far this time. I saw no signs of her "turn to the dark side" being an issue of corruption in The Church itself, more just her abandoning her former faith but keeping up a facade of still having said faith to achieve her goals. Once she was "in the thick of it" as it were and was far enough away from The Church's watchful eye, then she decides to make her move. As a side note based on my reading of the material, I do not believe what she talked about her boss fight is all that true in regards to the lore. Various Light/Holy themed items and weapons still help out against the demons so it's not as if there's a complete abandonment of the divine here. Plus her entry in the Demon section of the archive straight up calls her a fool. If that's not a sign that she isn't thinking straight with how things work I do not know what would. EDIT: Since I am talking late game stuff here, I will mention the final boss as well and the use of Bael.
I will admit, initially I was also disappointed with how the boss was designed. Basically just three rotating heads that fired various things at you. This became especially apparent when I was reminded how this was a dead ringer for the first phase of Chaos from Aria of Sorrow. I admit that over time and repeated bouts with the boss I have warmed up to it more. The design they used for Bael is pretty accurate to the source material (That being The Ars Goetia) except minus the crown on the humanoid head and him lacking an actual body. Not to mention having one of the earlier bosses basically be Bael's "tongue" I also thought was a nice touch.
To kind of address something someone said earlier, while it is true that they kind of took out the biggest demon force in hell at the very first game you have to remember one thing. Bael is not the only "King of Hell" in the Ars Goetia. From the quick reference I have looked up there are at least 7 or 8 others. Sure, Bael is the first demon on the Ars Goetia list and is clearly portrayed as the most powerful, but he's not the only one. Bael was taken out by Miriam and while it is unclear if he is gone for good, with Bael having been taken out (at least for now) by a human, I HIGHLY doubt the other Kings of Hell would let an opportunity to fill that newly formed power vacuum go unexploited. I will repeat this as well, IF Bloodstained becomes a series, I think it would be a good idea to use this concept. Instead of having the same villain (In Castlevania's case Dracula) being the final boss of almost every single game, you could use the material in the Ars Goetia to have your pick of a new big bad, a new final boss to design and toy with. Bael is far from the only well known demon of these demonic kings. Asmodeus I have seen appear in media several times. Same with Belial. I apologize for the rambling if this turns out incoherent but my point is that, if they handle this correctly, there is so much more to explore here that I think would be great for a series. (At least in terms of story potential and boss designs)
Catholic here, and I agree. Dominique's abandonment of her faith seems like a personal interpretation after witnessing the demonic invasion that strength is the measure of the world. That it fell to human agents(the churches included) to deliver the world cemented in her mind that "Power" answered when "God" was silent. It is not a terribly unrealistic leap, in a world where holy damage and spells are a thing. Throw in the sight of some demons using holy attacks as well, and you may have a flock with several hard questions.
The Alchemists' desire to squash competition and stay relevant, the nun's desire to kill God for perceived negligence, Miriam and Johannes's desire to save their contemporaries from evil. All turned to an art that spawns both angels and demons.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 25, 2019 8:02:18 GMT -6
like I said...I've always felt IGA needed to expand the art team. It seems like they're spread so thin...just a few people doing the whole castle? just a few people doing 100+ enemies?  that's rough. Imagine like 10 more unique rooms in each area how much more meaningful each location would be to explore. Imagine a more diverse enemy list. Imagine a Castle that has far more unique looking locations. They would drastically improve the game. Those art design elements are what need work more than anything. The plotting of how things should look. This is a good start but hopefully in part 2 it becomes way better. Maybe Mana will be more involved in the design process, who knows. I think that's my two biggest qualms, some art design things and the music not being as varied as I hoped. There's always a sequel. The gameplay is as stellar as ever if not more so. Button input mastering is a genius idea, crafting is a genius idea, all the weapon types, all the visual changes, all the lore books. Keep that going. <3 |
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 25, 2019 8:15:28 GMT -6
CielThis is why i voiced concern a long time ago when another crew was brought on board. Michiru Yamane has a particular sound that fits so well with these games. I don't necessarily think that's the problem though. If I had to peg it down it'd be these two things: 1. Going with orchestra. If you can't afford a massive orchestra of a big production game than it's probably not worth doing. The thing is synths and the like are Michiru Yamane's bread and butter and she can make tracks using them sound so damn full and energetic. If you have a small orchestra it won't really have the same impact. 2. Variety. Just listen to SOTN's ost. Wandering Ghosts Tragic Prince Requiem for the Gods Wood Carving Partita Marble Gallery Dance of Gold Abandoned Pit Dance of Pales this is an incredibly *Deep* and *Varied* OST. you have all kinds of musical styles, all kinds of musical arrangements. You have piano centered, rock centered, Waltz centered, atmospheric centered. That's what helps give it such an impact it wasn't just nice melodies but the melodies and styles helped take you to this location and believe it. Bloodstained's OST is good and I don't want to act like I'm saying it's not but it's nowhere near not even close to as varied in sound or in arrangement. Most tracks have a heavy use of strings as the main compenent, and most of the tracks don't really give a sense of a vastly different style. The best way to describe this is..... If I never played either game and someone asked me which OST belongs to the biggest IGAVANIA castle. I'd assume SOTN's because it feels like the grander, more varied, more stylistically different, and more broad OST. Which fits the idea of a bigger game better.
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Post by neff on Jun 25, 2019 8:16:40 GMT -6
like I said...I've always felt IGA needed to expand the art team. It seems like they're spread so thin...just a few people doing the whole castle? just a few people doing 100+ enemies? that's rough. Imagine like 10 more unique rooms in each area how much more meaningful each location would be to explore. Imagine a more diverse enemy list. Imagine a Castle that has far more unique looking locations. They would drastically improve the game. Those art design elements are what need work more than anything. The plotting of how things should look. This is a good start but hopefully in part 2 it becomes way better. Maybe Mana will be more involved in the design process, who knows. I think that's my two biggest qualms, some art design things and the music not being as varied as I hoped. There's always a sequel. The gameplay is as stellar as ever if not more so. Button input mastering is a genius idea, crafting is a genius idea, all the weapon types, all the visual changes, all the lore books. Keep that going. <3 I like the castle. Consider: the reason that there are so many labs is because this is an alchemist's castle. Someone else popping a demon castle into existence might have other decor. |
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 25, 2019 8:24:00 GMT -6
neff Yeah I get it's a lore reason but I didn't have a problem with the labs. I had a problem with there not being more upper castle locations. You don't need a FIRE and ICE underground section. You already got labs galore and a water section. That's the point i was making. There's so much more creative things you can do with locations to see it wasted on...oh this is the ICE EQUIVALENT to that fire location you were just at....it feels wasted. In this you had a water section, a sand section, a fire section, an ice section, two labs and literally a garden and a big garden. All I'm saying is there's plenty of upper locations they could have done that would be more unique for a IGA game. I was surprised that didn't happen.
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 25, 2019 8:32:20 GMT -6
Zangetsu is a Buddhist. While Tails man are commonly employed in Shintoism and Taoism, the specific scripts are Pali (in addition the red marking are religious symbols but I don't know if they are as specific as Alchemy). However, It's obvious only someone with explicit experience can understand them. Nehan Jakujoh is a specific buddhist chant in Japan, typically something they say before a mercy kill. During the second boss fight, Zangetsu will throw some of his tailsman onto the ground (like in Curse of the moon, but with large flame pillar instead of a vortex), which then flashes four Chinese Letter which is a classic Buddhism quote essentially meaning reality is falsehood. The question: How did Zangetsu use a common purpose Tailsman to seal Gremory and Alfred's teleportation? |
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 25, 2019 8:50:22 GMT -6
neff Yeah I get it's a lore reason but I didn't have a problem with the labs. I had a problem with there not being more upper castle locations. You don't need a FIRE and ICE underground section. You already got labs galore and a water section. That's the point i was making. There's so much more creative things you can do with locations to see it wasted on...oh this is the ICE EQUIVALENT to that fire location you were just at....it feels wasted. In this you had a water section, a sand section, a fire section, an ice section, two labs and literally a garden and a big garden. All I'm saying is there's plenty of upper locations they could have done that would be more unique for a IGA game. I was surprised that didn't happen. I think they should have put Gremory at the end of the giant Garden, and she gives you the power to Grow into giants instead, where a handful of enemies in Ice area that are otherwise too powerful. The millionaire boss has their own dedicated section, new Lili Maids that are more powerful, and give us a look at demon society as a whole. |
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Post by neff on Jun 25, 2019 11:14:31 GMT -6
a casino area would be a wonderful idea!
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 25, 2019 11:16:49 GMT -6
Something I think was handled excellently. The items and weapons you can get/craft/find. I haven't had this feeling in an IGA game since SOTN. They nailed the cool little details elements. From items that have weird effects that serve no purpose other than being cool. From weapons that have effects that look super awesome ( Lightning, fire, ice sword types ) ....they make you want to craft, they make you want to grind for items. The gameplay systems themselves are perfect. I wouldn't change any of them honestly. Suggestions for lore in future games.... having different files you can find like Resident Evil could be a nice expansion. Seemed like you got diary entries from a particular alchemist but maybe in further games you can find one from a villager who found their way into the location sometimes...Tackle all different scenarios. It makes for a richer story. People had complaints about the story but to me the lore files in this made this feel deeper and more real than any IGAVANIA before it. neffThat's exactly what i mean about locations. We got so many underground areas that I feel like we missed out on ideas that could have been more diverse for the castle itself. An old timey casino like location...( 1700's equivelent ).... A theater?......a living quarters?..... Maybe they just wanted to save some ideas for a sequel. |
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Ciel
Executor of the Church
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Post by Ciel on Jun 25, 2019 11:26:59 GMT -6
a casino area would be a wonderful idea! They probably, almost certainly, were going for it, but time constraints happened it seems. Valefor is basically a boss for a casino, yet here he was at a oversized garden for no real reason.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 25, 2019 11:37:24 GMT -6
CielYeah what I think is a fair thing to say is .....this game had some road blocks and they did the best they could with the time and money they had. To think they had to switch teams and then bring on a whole other team near the end. I said this before but imagine if Wayforward helped them out from the get go? Do you know how good this game could have looked visually and probably how few of problems it may have had. The dropping of a team, bringing on another team....it probably ate up the budget and they had to change some plans here and there.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 25, 2019 11:52:57 GMT -6
Ciel Yeah what I think is a fair thing to say is .....this game had some road blocks and they did the best they could with the time and money they had. To think they had to switch teams and then bring on a whole other team near the end. I said this before but imagine if Wayforward helped them out from the get go? Do you know how good this game could have looked visually and probably how few of problems it may have had. The dropping of a team, bringing on another team....it probably ate up the budget and they had to change some plans here and there. WayForward was the best thing to happen with this project, I really wish they were on board since the start. In my opinion, DICO is the source of everything that went wrong, from the technical issues to graphical problems, and probably the sad state that is the Switch port. Here I am hoping that if we ever get a sequel, IGA chooses someone else, anyone but them. |
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 25, 2019 12:02:51 GMT -6
Ciel Yeah what I think is a fair thing to say is .....this game had some road blocks and they did the best they could with the time and money they had. To think they had to switch teams and then bring on a whole other team near the end. I said this before but imagine if Wayforward helped them out from the get go? Do you know how good this game could have looked visually and probably how few of problems it may have had. The dropping of a team, bringing on another team....it probably ate up the budget and they had to change some plans here and there. WayForward was the best thing to happen with this project, I really wish they were on board since the start. In my opinion, DICO is the source of everything that went wrong, from the technical issues to graphical problems, and probably the sad state that is the Switch port. Here I am hoping that if we ever get a sequel, IGA chooses someone else, anyone but them. Do you think Inti Create might have actually been a good choice if not for the A**hole producer of Might "It's better than nothing" No.9? Anyway IGA was probably originally only planning to work with Japanese Dev but DICO in particular would be a bad choice. I am also surprised WayForward is totally okay with the Huge presence of Shovel Knight. |
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 25, 2019 12:11:36 GMT -6
Something I think was handled excellently. The items and weapons you can get/craft/find. I haven't had this feeling in an IGA game since SOTN. They nailed the cool little details elements. From items that have weird effects that serve no purpose other than being cool. From weapons that have effects that look super awesome ( Lightning, fire, ice sword types ) ....they make you want to craft, they make you want to grind for items. The gameplay systems themselves are perfect. I wouldn't change any of them honestly. Suggestions for lore in future games.... having different files you can find like Resident Evil could be a nice expansion. Seemed like you got diary entries from a particular alchemist but maybe in further games you can find one from a villager who found their way into the location sometimes...Tackle all different scenarios. It makes for a richer story. People had complaints about the story but to me the lore files in this made this feel deeper and more real than any IGAVANIA before it. neff That's exactly what i mean about locations. We got so many underground areas that I feel like we missed out on ideas that could have been more diverse for the castle itself. An old timey casino like location...( 1700's equivelent ).... A theater?......a living quarters?..... Maybe they just wanted to save some ideas for a sequel. Member the turtle boss in Circle of the moon in the icy stage 2? That thing is in the data mine. It certainly don't serve well as end boss though. For the Casino, npcs will Scuff you for gambling, even sweet O.D. There will be a friendly Lili who will let you try hands on games and scam you before she give you 'master's room key'. After the fight the Lili will 'thank' you. |
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 25, 2019 12:18:46 GMT -6
And for quests: 1. Npcs' revenge quest and burial quest are tied, where you can only complete the burial quest after the revenge one. You get both a journal entry and the two rewards for complete each chain. You get to learn why the villagers are in possession of incredibly demonic item, their general life and ultimate death. For example who is Warhorse and are you fighting a dead villager? 2. Old Lady is a hidden boss and her stats have grown as you feed her. 3. Other NPCs should have quest. For exmaple Johannus actually help you track down recipes and be more useful like Alfred. Even one lead to the best ending.
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Post by seiya on Jun 25, 2019 12:18:57 GMT -6
Part of my hope, is that every new character comes with a new area. We could play Zangetsu until the point where he gets sucked away. Then it would lead to an area where he goes after that scene. |
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 25, 2019 12:19:36 GMT -6
CielWell my personal hope is that they got WayForward for this not just to finish this up because they sealed a deal with them to work on the sequel. I think that is the best case scenario. I think they will help make a very nice game visually that runs much better.
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 25, 2019 13:06:08 GMT -6
Part of my hope, is that every new character comes with a new area. We could play Zangetsu until the point where he gets sucked away. Then it would lead to an area where he goes after that scene. I think I've seen a theory that this is the plot of Curse of the Moon, but that sounds quite unlikely. |
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that's rough. Imagine like 10 more unique rooms in each area how much more meaningful each location would be to explore. Imagine a more diverse enemy list. Imagine a Castle that has far more unique looking locations. They would drastically improve the game. Those art design elements are what need work more than anything. The plotting of how things should look. This is a good start but hopefully in part 2 it becomes way better. Maybe Mana will be more involved in the design process, who knows.
yey