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Post by Overlord on Jun 6, 2018 3:44:31 GMT -6
People pirate games because they can. Pirated games is a industry on itself. Every single game that is released is pirated. Also, Bloodstained is going to be released on GOG. GOG is famous for being DRM free and user-friendly on copies and installation (any GOG game can be freely copied from one computer to the other since they have no DRM or anti-piracy lock besides the basic ones). I'm not expecting Bloodstained to be pirated. I'm just stating the fact that it will be. And when a game is pirated, it is pirated with all content. Also, i didn't even said piracy is a bad thing or a good thing, i didn't defended it nor attacked it. The only thing i said is a fact: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night is going to be pirated and it's "backer exclusive content" will be pirated, regardless if such content is free or not, is exclusive or not. Yup, this is what the "pirate" conversation comes down to. Regardless of what they do or don't do, it's going to happen. Even if the game were to be released only for the PS4 and Xbox, it could still happen at some point. |
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 6, 2018 5:59:33 GMT -6
Could we move away from discussion pirate themed games here.
Please?
Thank you.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 6, 2018 8:26:16 GMT -6
If someone is so petty that they would pirate a game because the developers/publishers are keeping a promise to the Kickstarter backers, the people that supposedly enabled the game to exist, then you were never going to get anything from that person in the first place. They will find another reason to justify pirating. It likely wouldn't be for "keeping a promise" but for making the promise in the first place. Some people are very strongly opposed to the idea of permanently locked content in the games industry. Hell, some are opposed to the idea of any kind of pre-order or Day One DLC, any kind of content that is already made for the game by the time its release, being locked behind a paywall much less exclusivity. They see it as literally cutting out parts of the game. I was talking to a dude on Reddit a few days ago who, despite being a backer and will be getting said exclusive content, is saying he's normally one to boycot that sort of thing and doesn't want them to go through with it. (Somehow I guess he missed the memo when he backed the thing.) Beyond these two reasons or anything on principle etc, I'd say for the majority it'd just be because they found out about the content any time later and wanted it. At this point, that'd be their only recourse unless they hit up ebay. Talking about piracy as a reality and affect it could have on the game/content I think is fine so long as we are not promoting or demonstrating it. It is an inconvenient truth to consider in this situation. However, exclusive for consoles would very likely mostly stay exclusive, at least for a longer period of time. The promise is also still the promise, regardless of what efforts are taken to surmount it. Anyway, I still remain for this (taken from another thread, pre-poll): I may be remembering wrong, but I believe another option Angel brought up for this in discord was this: The content is released to everyone (perhaps paid for non-backers), but only as a re-skinned more generic version so that the exclusive remains exclusive. So, purely content wise, everything ends up being there for all buyers, but the IGA boss is now actually instead a boss with a similar shape without the same design and voice lines, and the backer sword-whip becomes a more normal-looking standard weapon option for them. If backers so choose, they can access the generic forms of these things if they want. I'm paraphrasing and adding some thoughts to this, but I think you get the idea. edit: The best thing I can think of right now to equate this to from an old game - Instead of "Mike Tyson's Punch Out1!!" featuring Mike Tyson, late buyers get Mr. Dream haha. But if you want to fight Mr. Dream for some reason as a backer, you can |
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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 6, 2018 10:17:35 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard I can see reskins of the content but does standard looking mean it won't have particle effects for the weapon? Still one could argue that it's still not exclusive DLC as the only thing that's exclusive is the different skin that wasn't promised as being exclusive.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 6, 2018 12:04:14 GMT -6
It likely wouldn't be for "keeping a promise" but for making the promise in the first place. Some people are very strongly opposed to the idea of permanently locked content in the games industry. Hell, some are opposed to the idea of any kind of pre-order or Day One DLC, any kind of content that is already made for the game by the time its release, being locked behind a paywall much less exclusivity. They see it as literally cutting out parts of the game. I was talking to a dude on Reddit a few days ago who, despite being a backer and will be getting said exclusive content, is saying he's normally one to boycot that sort of thing and doesn't want them to go through with it. (Somehow I guess he missed the memo when he backed the thing.) Beyond these two reasons or anything on principle etc, I'd say for the majority it'd just be because they found out about the content any time later and wanted it. At this point, that'd be their only recourse unless they hit up ebay. Talking about piracy as a reality and affect it could have on the game/content I think is fine so long as we are not promoting or demonstrating it. It is an inconvenient truth to consider in this situation. However, exclusive for consoles would very likely mostly stay exclusive, at least for a longer period of time. The promise is also still the promise, regardless of what efforts are taken to surmount it. We were talking about the likelihood and reasoning of people pirating the entire game because of this decision, not just the backer content. Piracy of the backer content itself is something that... I guess I can't find any real reason to be bothered by. It's a victimless crime. There's no paying for the content, so there's no lost revenue. No one loses anything. Not that I'm promoting it, just that it's something I just kind of go "So?" |
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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 6, 2018 12:39:16 GMT -6
lovelydumplingThere is a victim and its the backers as the "Backer Exclusive" is being stolen with people who don't care that just want the full experience of the game despite it being a promise too backers. I know I feel the same about the backer exclusive and rightfully so as its almost an equivalent of a pre-order bonus that never gets too be enjoyed outside the backers but I would never pirate. Theirs always a piracy problem with games so in this case it comes down too what could be the best and worst case scenario in making a compromise or not. You have keeping the promise in one which will probably not matter too the people who want a full experience and then you have breaking it which would satisfy those people who want the full experience but betray the backers. I know keeping a promise is probably the morally right choice if you made one but what if that results In people just pirating the backer exclusive content then isn't the promise technically broken? I say yes and no! Yes as in the people making the promise trying too keep it and No as in people pirating the backer exclusive content for a full experience. My 2 cents.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 6, 2018 14:02:25 GMT -6
lovelydumpling There is a victim and its the backers as the "Backer Exclusive" is being stolen with people who don't care that just want the full experience of the game despite it being a promise too backers. I know I feel the same about the backer exclusive and rightfully so as its almost an equivalent of a pre-order bonus that never gets too be enjoyed outside the backers but I would never pirate. Theirs always a piracy problem with games so in this case it comes down too what could be the best and worst case scenario in making a compromise or not. You have keeping the promise in one which will probably not matter too the people who want a full experience and then you have breaking it which would satisfy those people who want the full experience but betray the backers. I know keeping a promise is probably the morally right choice if you made one but what if that results In people just pirating the backer exclusive content then isn't the promise technically broken? I say yes and no! Yes as in the people making the promise trying too keep it and No as in people pirating the backer exclusive content for a full experience. My 2 cents. I have yet to see a single person who wants the content exclusive to complain about the piracy bit of it. Particularly because piracy is unavoidable and there's no point getting concerned over the lawbreakers. People who are gonna pirate are gonna pirate. Utlimately though those who will pirate the content are a small portion of the total base. Not everyone who plays the game owns the PC, not everyone who owns a PC knows how to pirate safely, not everyone who knows how to pirate safely are open to actually doing it, and not everyone open to doing it are going to care enough to pirate the content. You yourself claim to have never done it and wouldn't do it upon learning it was illegal. It's not really a good reason to go "eh, screw it, lets scrap the whole thing." That'd be like scrapping laws because criminals break them anyway. Shoplifting? Robbery? Murderer? Criminals don't follow laws so who needs em! And then people scratch their heads when crime rates skyrocket. |
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 6, 2018 14:21:35 GMT -6
I have yet to see a single person who wants the content exclusive to complain about the piracy bit of it. Particularly because piracy is unavoidable and there's no point getting concerned over the lawbreakers. People who are gonna pirate are gonna pirate. Utlimately though those who will pirate the content are a small portion of the total base. Not everyone who plays the game owns the PC, not everyone who owns a PC knows how to pirate safely, not everyone who knows how to pirate safely are open to actually doing it, and not everyone open to doing it are going to care enough to pirate the content. You yourself claim to have never done it and wouldn't do it upon learning it was illegal. It's not really a good reason to go "eh, screw it, lets scrap the whole thing." That'd be like scrapping laws because criminals break them anyway. Shoplifting? Robbery? Murderer? Criminals don't follow laws so who needs em! And then people scratch their heads when crime rates skyrocket. Hmm...well, speaking as a backer who would like backer-exclusive content to be available to all, piracy is one of my arguments for making the stuff open to the public. The way I see it, if "exclusive" digital content is going to be available to pirates anyway, it was never really exclusive. That's why I think giving folks limited edition skins or something might be a better compromise, since pirates are less likely to go through the effort of trying to get at just some skins, especially if those skins are commemorative in some way (like, say, online "backer #X" skins) |
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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 6, 2018 14:27:18 GMT -6
lovelydumpling There is a victim and its the backers as the "Backer Exclusive" is being stolen with people who don't care that just want the full experience of the game despite it being a promise too backers. I know I feel the same about the backer exclusive and rightfully so as its almost an equivalent of a pre-order bonus that never gets too be enjoyed outside the backers but I would never pirate. Theirs always a piracy problem with games so in this case it comes down too what could be the best and worst case scenario in making a compromise or not. You have keeping the promise in one which will probably not matter too the people who want a full experience and then you have breaking it which would satisfy those people who want the full experience but betray the backers. I know keeping a promise is probably the morally right choice if you made one but what if that results In people just pirating the backer exclusive content then isn't the promise technically broken? I say yes and no! Yes as in the people making the promise trying too keep it and No as in people pirating the backer exclusive content for a full experience. My 2 cents. I have yet to see a single person who wants the content exclusive to complain about the piracy bit of it. Particularly because piracy is unavoidable and there's no point getting concerned over the lawbreakers. People who are gonna pirate are gonna pirate. Utlimately though those who will pirate the content are a small portion of the total base. Not everyone who plays the game owns the PC, not everyone who owns a PC knows how to pirate safely, not everyone who knows how to pirate safely are open to actually doing it, and not everyone open to doing it are going to care enough to pirate the content. You yourself claim to have never done it and wouldn't do it upon learning it was illegal. It's not really a good reason to go "eh, screw it, lets scrap the whole thing." That'd be like scrapping laws because criminals break them anyway. Shoplifting? Robbery? Murderer? Criminals don't follow laws so who needs em! And then people scratch their heads when crime rates skyrocket. But there is a difference it's harder too control digital crime than it is too control crime that happens outside of the digital electronics. I agree there always will be pirates and they are criminals but in my opinion if that happens too the content despite it being free the promise is broken. Example of a backer content keys being stolen but not pirated so I know it's a little different but the thought remained the same. bloody-disgusting.com/news/3481373/theft-friday-13th-game-kickstarter-content-codes-discovered/It effected the Friday the 13th game how can it not effect this games backer content despite being bootlegged? |
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 6, 2018 14:57:33 GMT -6
Hmm...well, speaking as a backer who would like backer-exclusive content to be available to all, piracy is one of my arguments for making the stuff open to the public. The way I see it, if "exclusive" digital content is going to be available to pirates anyway, it was never really exclusive. That's why I think giving folks limited edition skins or something might be a better compromise, since pirates are less likely to go through the effort of trying to get at just some skins, especially if those skins are commemorative in some way (like, say, online "backer #X" skins) Right. But you are speaking from the perspective of who wants that content available for everyone. I'm trying to say that from the perspective of those who want the promised exclusivity, "well criminals are going to be able to steal the content anyway so make it available to everyone!" is a huge cop out. Piracy doesn't make exclusive content not exclusive just like piracy doesn't make paywalled content not paywalled. Imagine that same kind of logic to excuse or deny paid DLC? Or pre-order DLC, or timed exclusivity, or anything really. People breaking the law and doing illegal things to steal what they want isn't something that should factor into the decisions to how content is delivered. Why offer the demos only to backers? Those can be pirated too. Why even sell games or movies or DVDs or subscription services? "We'll give it to everyone because some people are going to steal it anyway" is just kind of really scummy and gives more credit to piracy than it deserves. |
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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 6, 2018 15:25:57 GMT -6
lovelydumplingI think theirs a difference between DLC that can be bought still and Backer Exclusive Content that can't. I will give you pre-order content and the backer exclusive content as that is nearly the same but even the pre-order content has a chance to be available later on. There will be no other way for people too experience backer exclusive content unless they went on Ebay or pirate the content. I really do see where your coming from as like of course it doesn't make it not a backer exclusive anymore but for some it just might feel that way as our minds are formed in entirely different ways like mine for instance that is a mental disability! So in result we all have a different opinion on something. It's even showing now how we have different view points on something. As one could see the backer exclusive not exclusive anymore because it's pirated theirs also people who see it as still backer exclusive despite being pirated. The same could be said about backer exclusive skins being thought as being "missing content" or "meaningless content" because we all judge things differently. So even if the content is still backer exclusive people can still see it as not backer exclusive due too piracy.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 6, 2018 15:26:29 GMT -6
I get you with the "people who are gonna pirate are gonna pirate", and that's true, and it's true that it's normally not significant enough of a number to normally consider, and would indeed be giving it more credit than it deserves. Agreed on that, but we're not really talking about solely theft of the game on principle of content practices or whatever. That's another smaller group of people who often may be just making excuses to pirate things. If you're just talking about those groups/fringe piracy, then yeah gotcha there. I think we can move on from thinking that's much of a factor.
The thing that matters about it in this case to me is that paid DLC, paywalls, movies, music, subscription services and all that other stuff you mention can be bought. There exists a legal means to obtain it. The backer exclusive content doesn't have that, if left as it is. I don't think this happens very often.
A popular example, though: Game of Thrones. HBO very, very specifically made it such that earlier on in the seasons, if you didn't have an actual cable subscription through their partners, you could not watch the show. There was at the time no other legal means to watch it, not even an HBO app or service to stream it (which does now exist). So unfortunately, many because they definitely didn't want cable (and/or to deal with a cable company) for one show contributed to that show being the #1 pirated TV show of all time. There were just that many other people who would otherwise pay, but were not offered an accessible option to their situation.
Exclusive content with its exclusivity now passed has even less avenues open to someone trying to get it. People that would pay are like me with GoT, except in a bit worse of a pinch. Like I said earlier, it's
their only recourse, and these guys definitely won't all be "always gonna pirate" people.
edit: Please don't tell on me to HBO >_> lol. Also again, I'm just presenting a point of view here, and I would still want backer content to remain with at least some exclusivity. Comparing it to above, it'd be like early adopters get the TV show as they should, but everyone else gets a slightly different version (skin) or has to wait for the DVD release later (timed), etc. I'd personally be fine with full exclusive, too, but I just worry about the reception of the game going that route.
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Post by Overlord on Jun 6, 2018 15:32:29 GMT -6
Could we move away from discussion pirate themed games here. Please? Thank you. You're going to have to do much better than that in order to get me to stop talking about LEGO Pirates of the Caribbean. |
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 6, 2018 15:35:21 GMT -6
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 6, 2018 18:30:34 GMT -6
... Is it? Considering I subsist of one meal a day because I can't afford to eat, I'd like to know this magic free food giving farm you speak of. Edit: — wait, were you make a stealing joke XD |
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 7, 2018 3:54:57 GMT -6
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Post by crimsonx4 on Jun 28, 2018 11:11:23 GMT -6
It would be somewhat negative for both "camps" instead of very negative for either. W-What?! You're saying it'd be a... compromise?!
Well for starters, it's not replacing anything. Either way, you still get that promised boss and weapon. If the items were what were valuable to you, this'd be a moot discussion. But it hasn't been the point. It's the exclusivity you place value in. And the skins would have that exclusivity for you.
I can understand the frustration here, disagreements aside. Reminds me of that oft Thomas Jefferson-attributed quote: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
Times like this could use some better tact. It's not that hard to disagree with people without insulting them. Not to mention "That's stupid" isn't a very well constructed argument. Anger and insults are the worst way to help someone see a different perspective.
Almost as pompous as simply discarding someone's statement as "remarkably stupid" without any following arguments.
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Regarding the overall issue of exclusivity, while I think a deluxe/delayed method of getting the content out is by far my preferred option as permalocked content is something I completely detest in the games industry, I do think the "correct" thing here would be for the game to follow through on its promises. Even if most backers are fine with it going to everyone, the fact stands that they never decided to change it the entire time they were pulling money for the Kickstarter. People paid into this game with these promises in mind, and the last thing we need is press coverage of "ANOTHER KICKSTARTER BACKING OUT ON THEIR WORD."
I really don't want the content to be permalocked, but I feel like I can't really argue with those that do.
This is factually incorrect. Medusa, a character of Greek mythology, has been in the franchise since the original Castlevania. As have the Medusa Head enemies. They are also staples of the franchise. From game one, they were borrowing from other mythologies. This grew as the franchise evolved, but there was never a point where they stuck only to judeochristianity.
I kinda actually figured Valkyrie Armor would be a similar bonus. Unlocked when beating the game or through other special means. Alt costumes tend to be.
None of this has to do with Miram actually being a Succubus or have any reason why she'd actually wear a Succubus suit. It's a gothic themed game.... okay. But why would Miriam wear a Succubus suit? The point is she wouldn't, and the only reason she would is because we the player and they the developers decided to slip her in one.
It too breaks the narrative and immersion of the world. But that's okay, because it is a bonus item, and whether Miriam actually would wear it is irrelevant to the choice to give the player to do so.
To their credit, from what I understand the games they're taking down show bare breasts and/or are themed on erotica/sex as a whole. They're cracking down mostly on the "eroge" genre from what I've seen. I don't think Iga's team would go so far with the Succubus design as to have exposed bare breasts in-game (as much as a different side of me would appreciate >.>). I can't imagine it being any more explicit than what you can find from a good number of the girls in Street Fighter even. (Rainbow Mika and Cammy anyone?). I think Steam would let it go  No you are factually incorrect. Medusa is part of Roman Chatolic and satanist theology. Her origins might be Greek but she has been adopted and turned into a demon by the Roman Catholic Church. What Castlevania takes as a source of inspiration. You are again missing the point in which bonus characters and context fit the context of the game. The Valkyrie armor IS out of place. As for the costume we don’t even know enough of the character’s personality, but she’s already worn “sexy stuff” before and honestly there is nothing wrong with that. Finally the Steam thing blew over just like I said it would, there is no excuse to tone down any “controversial” content like they already have. |
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Post by azmodan79 on Aug 21, 2018 3:44:54 GMT -6
Happy to be in the 11% that has been hosed royally. The Vita version has been scrapped and now I'm an unhappy camper. No more kickstarters for me, ever!
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Post by allooutrick on Aug 22, 2018 8:40:11 GMT -6
Happy to be in the 11% that has been hosed royally. The Vita version has been scrapped and now I'm an unhappy camper. No more kickstarters for me, ever! Your joy has blinded you. This isn't the August update, where your comment would've been appropriate |
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Post by Waifu4Life on Aug 22, 2018 11:08:13 GMT -6
Happy to be in the 11% that has been hosed royally. The Vita version has been scrapped and now I'm an unhappy camper. No more kickstarters for me, ever! Your joy has blinded you. This isn't the August update, where your comment would've been appropriate Don't think you understood what he said. Also, wonder if they'll cancel the XBONE version since it's got the lowest percentage? |
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