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Post by CastleDan on Apr 3, 2016 15:07:49 GMT -6
As promised I said I'd upload pics of frames frozen on specific animations of etails to show the great work they're doing. This is the turn around which is always beautiful animation in the 2d games. When you do a quick change of direction you see the front of the character. Still looks as good as ever in bloodstained.this is the iconic idle pose of Miriam and reminds me of Soma's in dawn which I think is great- This is her crouch This is the animation I noticed when she's running full speed and stops abruptly Finally her good ol kick! So i gotta say they're putting the attention to detail that they did with the 2d games which is very reassuring. I couldn't be happier after watching this in slo mo and seeing all the little details. All they truly need is minor adjustments and even then it's just icing on a cake Quoting this for the third pge
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 3, 2016 14:03:06 GMT -6
As promised I said I'd upload pics of frames frozen on specific animations of etails to show the great work they're doing. This is the turn around which is always beautiful animation in the 2d games. When you do a quick change of direction you see the front of the character. Still looks as good as ever in bloodstained.this is the iconic idle pose of Miriam and reminds me of Soma's in dawn which I think is great- This is her crouch This is the animation I noticed when she's running full speed and stops abruptly Finally her good ol kick! So i gotta say they're putting the attention to detail that they did with the 2d games which is very reassuring. I couldn't be happier after watching this in slo mo and seeing all the little details. All they truly need is minor adjustments and even then it's just icing on a cake
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 2, 2016 22:00:28 GMT -6
I watched the video in slow motion and I think everyone should as you get a greater sense of the attention to detail In the animations. I like her turn around animation, I like her stationary pose with her hand on her hip, i think the jump animation is great. I'll take some screen shots of each of These sometime tomorrow unless someone else does it.
I gotta disagree about the comment above regarding SOTNs button input spells while most were hard to pull off there's something quite pleasurable about pulling off a combo to make a special spell get performed. Much like the feeling you get when you do a combo to achieve a fatality in a mortal Kombat game. It gives you a sense of accomplIshment instead of easily pulling off every spell in the game with a press of a button. Now should some spells be easy with a click of a button? Sure. I just think an aspect of the game that lets us pull off moves to achieve a special spell is an enjoyable asset of the game.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 2, 2016 15:12:20 GMT -6
Earlier I mentioned I could see the kick being an unarmed attack, but reading all the comments about Miriam's kick got me thinking about equipping footwear or items to change or enhance it. I can see shoes, boots or sandals, being weapon types along with the various swords and whips. Maybe other equipment, such as a headband or karate black belt, could change Miriam's normal kick into something like a roundhouse kick or one of those kicks where the person flies forward with both legs together. The cool thing is they really seem to be expanding on the old games. It's got all the things you like from the previous games. The crazy equipment options and visual changes of SOTN, the soul type system from Aria/Dawn, and they're even coming up with new things like the kick and possibly equipment for the feet. That's all i've been asking, I felt like the DS games were a more streamlined version of SYMPHONY. I want what SOTN did but better and incorporate ALL the cool qualities from the best games into a new direction. That's what Bloodstained seems to be.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 2, 2016 4:45:47 GMT -6
The look at gameplay footage was a good surprise. I didn't expect the game to be that far along. I did, and i would have been worried if it was not, as every game needs minimum viable product before expanding, and that is just that. Its just rare that developer shows it to as wide audience as player base, but that they do it is good thing because the more users look at it the faster and more efficiently worst bugs ETC get noted and fixed.
So Thanks for showing us that.
Also my comments on video.
1. i would appreciate if the scarf would be optional in options.
2. Kick is too slow, as someone mentioned already.
3. Skirt (This needs lots of work.) - Dat clipping tho - It needs way more bones, or way more space to move (depending if you did it with bones or physx) - also it needs to be more flexible. - also it needs to be able to contract and stretch so it does not get that plastic collar deformation effect. - also skirt should have more weight so it does not float 2 inches from thigh when in kick position
4. jumping and falling, At the moment, if i m not mistaken jump up speed = fall speed, i don't know if that's necessarily bad but what i expect others to feel as "floating" is that falling animation, witch is basically floating animation, suspend character in air, and play that animation and you got perfect magical floating animation (medusa head maybe)
5. When dropping down platforms, character probably should extend it self under the platform instead of standing up and platform loosing solidness, thus causing effect of sneaking to drop of platform instead of touching the floor to make it non solid, then standing up and just falling (so in short move character to extend downwards when dropping from platform instead of upwards)
Also for someone that wondered if animations where hand made... I don't know, BUT its 50% change to ether one, as in UE4 animations are REALLY EASY to motion capture, probably even easier than to hand craft them, through i have not done ether so i really don't know witch is easier, (watch some Epics videos about it).
Jeez, you have quite the list. The ribbons are detatchable in the game so you shouldn't be worried there but I'm surprised a person wouldn't want it because she looks kinda weird without a flowing garment and the ribbons look pretty cool.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 1, 2016 20:35:56 GMT -6
I want to clarify that I did say if the floatiness is because the 2d games had that feel as well then I'm completely fine with it, I think they should replicate the feel of those games even if it looks slightly weird due it being a 3d model now. So disregard my comment, I do agree that the kick should be a bit faster. Animation wise and the general feel/look of the character running and jumping around is absolutely perfect at replicating that 2d game feel.
Well done team.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 1, 2016 20:11:10 GMT -6
- I wanna say she looks slow but I can't tell if its because she's actually slow or just because I'm too used to maximizing movement in these games and watching speed runs.
- I can also see why they added those ribbons. She looks a bit "off" without some flowing garment.
- So I know they said that they didn't have the ribbons here but how come? Was this done before the model mockup from last Goofball news was created? Or were they just taken off the model for some adjustments?
- Interesting that the background and layouts are all orthogonal in projection but since these aren't final at all who knows what that might mean moving forward
Yeah she kinda looks floaty. I don't want here SUPER quick to fall down or anything like that but slightly more quick would be better.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 1, 2016 19:42:47 GMT -6
Does it look a bit too floaty to anyone though or does it match well with the 2d igavania. I can't tell if it only looks that way because i'm not used to 3d models in igavania's or if it's a bit more floaty than normal. That's literally the only criticism i can think of though. The animations are looking pretty dang nice right now
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 1, 2016 19:40:21 GMT -6
Animations look great and I think the castle design ( grid ) looks well designed as well .
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 1, 2016 1:05:26 GMT -6
in the inverted you use the bat charge instead of wolf dash, that one you were likely to find as a wolf running around exploring and using the wolfs speed, and the inverted castle has secrets in the same places so it becomes a matter of remembering where they are and how the change in terrain necessitates a slightly different approach to opening things the secret elevator is a bit of a guide dang it (unless youd previously played a castlevania game and already know about the whole breakable wall and hidden item thing >P) but its forgiven by the fact that its still accessible later on a different way if you dont figure it out (but by then the items in that room are on par with your current gear) and to get there early you also have to fight your way past an enemy that can very easily kill you, so its risk and experimentation vs reward there im all for the teach by doing approach, putting the first breakable wall behind an enemy that sticks close to the wall so at some point you are likely to hit the wall too and get that sound and visual cue of something being off is perfect, no stopping the game to MEGAMAN MEGAMAN, igas games in the past have done exceptionally well at keeping explanation and tutorials to an absolute minimum and what tutorials they do have for the most part are woven into some story element, but thats a bit off topicit Its those turtorials woven into the plot that are typically cringe inducing to me. I wish more games would stop assuming we cant figure out simple gamplay mechanics on our own without the story beating you over the head with it
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 31, 2016 13:58:16 GMT -6
I too like free exploration, and hidden areas that are discovered by player perceptiveness and logical experimentation. But I have to say SoTn DID have a few secrets that were guide dang it territory, and those I don't particularly like. I think the most blatant example was that one area where you can ride a hidden elevator by holding up in a specific area for like 10 seconds. I think there was another one related to the wolf form. I mean early on when you can run thru that rock by the mermen, that wasn't outrageous, but I think there was something else related to that some area where you had to do a power charge thing for another secret. I can't remember what. But IIRC it was pretty guide dang it too imo. In any case, I'm not a big fan of guide dang it Had no idea what you meant by guide dang it so I had to look it up. So....secrets that you find by luck? ( why not just say luck? haha) Anyways, I think they're cool in a VERY limited way. A couple secrets found by that would be cool, it's all part of the idea of.... "Holy crap...Did I just do that? I wonder how much more I can find in this game?" That all helps the image that the game has more to it than meets the eye, and encourages repeat playthroughs because who knows what can happen. I absolutely loved that about the game, but I do think it should be very limited because I mean you can only be SO lucky.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 31, 2016 10:41:07 GMT -6
Some of you are voicing the concerns I have. That they might dabble much more in 3d because of the 2.5d set up and in doing that it starts pulling more to the 3d side and kills the 2d feel. It's a VALID concern that I hope the team at Artplay and Inti are very cautious about. It's the fine balance of keeping it feeling 2d while using some of the benefits of 3d, but not tipping the scale.
I think Strider like I said before does have some good qualities and that stems from the animation work. If there's one thing it does very well is, it mimics 2d animation so well. That's where the team should draw inspiration from.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 30, 2016 23:21:53 GMT -6
I didn't find the game all that special but I'm not into strider games. What I did find special was the animations which remind me very much of 2d games and I hope bloodstained takes influence from. I also dug the smoke effects and dust effects when you jump... I'm hoping for a similar cell shaded look in bloodstained
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 29, 2016 16:37:17 GMT -6
I have a feeling the recording may be our first sample of Miriam's voice actress. I mean it could be... unless she's a silent protagonist we're going to hear her voice sooner rather than later. Here's hoping she could be Jennifer Hale I think it'll be her attacking. They mentioned IGA going outside and swinging an umbrella. Might be getting ourselves and animation of her swinging a joke weapon. Hopefully it's within an environment and not just the model. We will see! Whatever it is, I'm pumped.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 28, 2016 20:08:42 GMT -6
I mean there was a bunny with a stopwatch in Dawn? Is it that big of a deal to change it into some evil easter bunny? lol Im just not seeing the issue when these games always have absolutely zany enemies at times. I mean vacuum using demon maids aren't the most 'serious' idea around. Was there? I don't remember but I'll take your word for it. I'm not saying something like the thread subject can't be done to be clear. I'm only saying I'm personally having a hard time thinking up the best way to do it because of my mental image of the Easter Bunny. This is all a discussion taking place in which we lack a strong understanding of the actual world of this game and how everything in it will look. I think it becomes a lot easier to envision the best way to tackle this reference once we see a living, breathing game world since that will influence how you best want to incorporate such a reference. My bad, it was Aria of Sorrow. Needless to say, I'm sure they could do some demonic easter bunny that has a more creepier design than this monopoly resembling bunny! However, most people forgot there was even a bunny to begin with so I don't see a problem! i agree that getting a sense of the locations and the castle will definitely help and see if something like it would fit well or not.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 28, 2016 19:46:42 GMT -6
I HOPE. It returns.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 28, 2016 19:37:59 GMT -6
I'm having a hard time figuring out an Easter Bunny reference that isn't either so obvious as to stick out like a sore thumb or so subtle as to be missed by most who come across it. Nothing saying it can't be done either way though - just has to be given a lot of thought. Though if one would have to lean of one extreme of the other the later would be better. I mean there was a bunny with a stopwatch in Dawn? Is it that big of a deal to change it into some evil easter bunny? lol Im just not seeing the issue when these games always have absolutely zany enemies at times. I mean vacuum using demon maids aren't the most 'serious' idea around.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 28, 2016 13:39:04 GMT -6
The more little details, the more discoveries, the more.. OH CRAP.. I can do this? moments the better the game will be imo. I don't need everything explained to me, I want to discover, find, explore, and be blown away. YES. That is the beauty of SOTN (and most Igavanias, from what I gather, but I'm not a big portables guy). The game doesn't hold your hand at ALL, but at the same time you can intuit things pretty easily and explore and discover. Gotta be honest, I kinda hated the Inverted Castle because I feel it's TOO non-linear. There's very little sense of progression there IMO, because there are no barricades. You don't get the same feel of being on a journey. Does anyone else like my idea of difficulty scaling up in NG+? Or at least an option to do so? Should be relatively easy, I would think. You'd just scale up enemy attributes. I don't share your hate for the inverted castle but I do agree that the lack of holding your hand in SOTN was one of my favorite things. Expect more from the gamers, i wish more modern developers followed suit. I missed the 90's way of doing things it made you think about what you need to do, and how to discover what you can do. It wasn't always... the game having to tell you what's next or how to use a certain magic ability, etc..etc.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 28, 2016 12:13:35 GMT -6
The more little details, the more discoveries, the more.. OH CRAP.. I can do this? moments the better the game will be imo. I don't need everything explained to me, I want to discover, find, explore, and be blown away.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 28, 2016 10:29:50 GMT -6
I personally think a lot of the lack of challenge in SOTN is due to pretty easy bosses. While they were cool designs they were pretty easy patterns to avoid, and order of ecclesia handled the bosses perfectly as the patterns were far more difficult, and you had to be a lot more cautious with your movements. They can go the SOTN castle route, while making more challenging bosses. I liked the idea that if you level up very quickly enemies will maybe get different attack patterns to adjust. A system such as that could help balance the game out.
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