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Post by JoJo on Mar 5, 2016 9:28:58 GMT -6
Summary of the story:UN had hold a meeting to discuss the banning on manga and games that "depicts sexual violence against women" in Japan UN meetingsthe link above is UN's meeting regarding the ban, but from what I know, there is no real decisions yet But then, Kumiko Yamada, Women's Institute of Contemporary Media Culture Representative and Designer Actually writes a response regarding's UN meeting about this Translated versionOriginal version
as I don't have much information yet on this, I will try to find more on this
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 5, 2016 9:32:18 GMT -6
I saw the translation on Reddit yesterday... I know it won't convince the people trying to push this BS, but it's still quite gratifying to see.
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Post by JoJo on Mar 5, 2016 9:35:04 GMT -6
But then it still makes me wonder
Why the UN are so desperate to ban stuff?
I never seen UN actually doing good things, like ever
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Post by Astaroth on Mar 5, 2016 11:30:00 GMT -6
well you gotta remember that the un is a collection of dictators, despots, lawyers, political extremists, and politicians, nothing good will ever come of that combination, the only reason it still exists is because these groups effectively have made themselves a supergovernment and started trying to impose their varied wills and reach for more power and control and wealth on the rest of the world, and the poitical extremist of the day thats screaming bloody murder and has enough money to buy their time is the radical wing of feminism so thats what their focus is on atm, in a month it could be greenpeace or the unicorn society, who knows
im just tired of all the crazies that go after the stupid shit while staying silent on the ACTUAL PROBLEMS in this world, no anita, laras butt is not in the problem, the societal treatment of women in large parts of the world as literal property and third class citizens is, rikkus weight is not the problem, the fact that the us doesnt have a clue any more what moderation and proper proportions are and so we swing from unhealthy skinny to unhealthy obese is _|_|_ \>_< / _|_|_
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 5, 2016 11:39:02 GMT -6
"February 28th, 2016
Kumiko Yamada, Women's Institute of Contemporary Media Culture Representative and Designer"
This was the icing on the cake of the whole thing. I never would have expected such a response from JP, though I'm glad we got that. It's refreshing to see someone declare that fictional people aren't real, even though it's so obvious. The UN should honestly not be deliberating on such frivolous things, and should instead focus on things like the conflicts in the middle east and conflicts surrounding Russia.
Do we even need these people? I can only imagine that we're paying tax money to these people's pointless jobs. Also I vote to rename Social Justice Warriors to something like Unpleasant Expression Critics.
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Post by JoJo on Mar 5, 2016 11:57:41 GMT -6
This is my view on the whole SJW and "feminist" (I put on quote because I seen some reasonable feminist which are not an extremist)
Why they are so desperate on this kind of things? This always happen in the western countries (most of the time, I never seen this kind of news from where I live, only once though)
and every time I go and see news on entertainments, for like games and movies, there is bound to be people that is triggered no matter what
Which is very stupid, I'm sure you people agrees with that
and now with this kind of things happening every single time
This world will become like the world in the anime Shimoneta, where you can't speak the word of any private parts of the body...
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Post by crocodile on Mar 5, 2016 12:25:40 GMT -6
I have no idea what prompted this subject to be debated or discussed in the context of the UN so this is a surprising thing that has come to my attention. Yeah I can't say I'd agree to the banning of this sort of material since it is completely fictional and not based on or created via the use of real life sexual violence (which would of course be despicable). That being said, given the Japanese media I have come across, I do honestly believe there is too much sexual violence. Way too many comics/doujins (lewd or not) have been ruined by this element I feel. Way too often have I said "WOW, the art in this is AMAZING! I'm really enjoying thi........wait......is this going where I thin.........UGH!" and been forced to turn away from a particular piece of media. Again, I disagree with the concept of bans but even I have to admit that there is way too much sexual violence in the non-mainstream Japanese comics/doujins I've come across  This is my view on the whole SJW and "feminist" (I put on quote because I seen some reasonable feminist which are not an extremist) Why they are so desperate on this kind of things? This always happen in the western countries (most of the time, I never seen this kind of news from where I live, only once though) and every time I go and see news on entertainments, for like games and movies, there is bound to be people that is triggered no matter what Which is very stupid, I'm sure you people agrees with that and now with this kind of things happening every single time This world will become like the world in the anime Shimoneta, where you can't speak the word of any private parts of the body... There is a lot of hyperbole in this post I feel. There is no realistic end game in which we trend towards the world of that anime (you're probably joking to be honest but it can be hard to tell online  ). There's no need to put "feminist" in quotes - the vast majority are reasonable people who don't want to ban anything or burn books or whatever. People are allowed to critique media - sometimes they are off the mark but sometimes they are spot on. Just as they should use context in their critiques, so should you in your condemnations of them. Where do you live by the way? For better or worse, different countries have different tolerances for different things. That's just something we have to accept. Even if certain groups are hypersensitive to specific topics doesn't mean they don't have a point frequently. Again, context is king. |
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Post by JoJo on Mar 5, 2016 12:38:20 GMT -6
crocodileI'm from Indonesia, but now currently lives in Singapore to get my honor degree And yes, it's a joke when I say our world is becoming like the anime Shimoneta But then following the topic regarding UN, banning things like this is like practically banning freedom of speech, from my perspective and like what you said, people are allowed to critique media, but as far as attacking it because they don't like it, looks pretty stupid If I may ask of you, do you think censoring is good? because I think it's not, and this is what I think the UN is trying to do to people I want to know your opinion on this
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 5, 2016 13:39:21 GMT -6
Again, I disagree with the concept of bans but even I have to admit that there is way too much sexual violence in the non-mainstream Japanese comics/doujins I've come across The question here would be, do you think it should be banned because it is unpleasant? |
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Post by crocodile on Mar 5, 2016 15:13:53 GMT -6
Again, I disagree with the concept of bans but even I have to admit that there is way too much sexual violence in the non-mainstream Japanese comics/doujins I've come across The question here would be, do you think it should be banned because it is unpleasant? What you quoted should make it clear where I stand on that. I'm just saying "sexual violence" is a well way too many Japanese artists are willing/interested in tapping. I wish they would do so in much smaller numbers |
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Post by ghaleon on Mar 5, 2016 15:23:05 GMT -6
I think the quote for femanists is actually a sign of respect more than disrespect... Feminism should be about fighting for gender equality. If I were to say Femanists, who want equality, I wouldn't use quotes... however if I were to talk about people who were bigots masquerading as feminists, I'd use quotes. I think maximus used them for that reason. Minority/majority isn't really the issue when these people have strong influence in many areas, and seemingly are more influential to say.. the UN, than people who want equality. Your opinions on manga being sexually violent are your own, and I have no issues with them, but who would decide to try and force the UN to BAN manga based on sexual violence before attempting to help real women being abused in places saudia arabia? Not something I think someone who wants equality would prioritize, which the Japanese women's group said with their own voices as well.
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 5, 2016 15:26:04 GMT -6
The question here would be, do you think it should be banned because it is unpleasant? What you quoted should make it clear where I stand on that. I'm just saying "sexual violence" is a well way too many Japanese artists are willing/interested in tapping. I wish they would do so in much smaller numbers The "but" put it into question. I thought that's what you were saying until then, but then it was unclear. |
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 6, 2016 4:37:54 GMT -6
The question here would be, do you think it should be banned because it is unpleasant? What you quoted should make it clear where I stand on that. I'm just saying "sexual violence" is a well way too many Japanese artists are willing/interested in tapping. I wish they would do so in much smaller numbers There are several trends in anime particularly that I wish would change. I wouldn't want a law forcing that change, however. |
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Post by JoJo on Mar 6, 2016 4:57:07 GMT -6
What you quoted should make it clear where I stand on that. I'm just saying "sexual violence" is a well way too many Japanese artists are willing/interested in tapping. I wish they would do so in much smaller numbers There are several trends in anime particularly that I wish would change. I wouldn't want a law forcing that change, however. May I know what do you want in the anime to change? |
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 6, 2016 6:10:41 GMT -6
There are several trends in anime particularly that I wish would change. I wouldn't want a law forcing that change, however. May I know what do you want in the anime to change? Using the domestic market as the sole indicator of success is the biggest one. With a few exceptions(mostly shows targeting younger audiences), if you don't end up at the very top of the domestic BD sales chart, you don't get a second season. Most of the problems I have with anime are symptoms of this problem. One season - sometimes single cour even - shows that are basically advertisements for manga, visual novels and light novels, often times severely condensing and truncating the material so that it will fit into 13 episodes. Extreme otaku pandering. This goes into fan service, boring self-insert characters, harems, and more. None of it is bad as a thing, but these days most shows that make it past the first season have most of it. There are definitely some good shows going on, but a lot of them don't get renewed because they don't fit into that very specific niche that gets the otaku to buy discs and merchandise. My favorite show this season, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, only managed to sell 1500 of the first volume of its BD so far. That's only a little over 5% of the top seller that week. The most likely reason for that is that Rokugo is a josei that pretty much eschews all the usual anime tropes. Different = no sales in the anime industry. |
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 6, 2016 13:32:21 GMT -6
I think I'm on the other side of the argument relating to Scars.
Part of what makes anime so brilliant is that it only lasts a season or two. Within just one season, they have to have a beginning, middle, and end, and so it's all a completely wrapped up story.
Of course, this doesn't apply to anime that are made to advertise their manga, which is something I wish didn't have to exist in this world. Sometimes these anime simply don't have an ending, such as One Outs. But if you look carefully, anime without respective mangas also sometimes don't have an ending, so it isn't as if it's the only issue here. We're lucky Big O got an ending, and I'll probably be waiting for an ending to BPS till the day I die.
The industry also seems to change gradually. Back in the day something like Death Note simply wouldn't happen, but then Death Note did happen, and then we got Attack on Titan, Psycho-Pass, and a new adaptation of Parasyte, none of which I could say have any major tropes, and yet all were big and instant hits. Although we're still waiting for the AoT 2nd season, it isn't because of a lack of interest.
Sometimes it's also important to broaden your horizons, and realize there's still a lot out there you aren't even giving a chance, or things you didn't even know existed. After Prince of Tennis I was under the impression that all sports anime were lackluster, but eventually found some gems that hooked me to the genre. I also thought JoJo looked kinda dumb, but eventually watched the intro to the first season from a link someone put up on this site, and now I've finished the series just last week. I definitely emphasize things I feel more likely to be interested in, but every now and then I'll give something a shot that I don't think I'll like, because I might just be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 6, 2016 17:47:38 GMT -6
I think I'm on the other side of the argument relating to Scars. Part of what makes anime so brilliant is that it only lasts a season or two. Within just one season, they have to have a beginning, middle, and end, and so it's all a completely wrapped up story. Of course, this doesn't apply to anime that are made to advertise their manga, which is something I wish didn't have to exist in this world. Sometimes these anime simply don't have an ending, such as One Outs. But if you look carefully, anime without respective mangas also sometimes don't have an ending, so it isn't as if it's the only issue here. We're lucky Big O got an ending, and I'll probably be waiting for an ending to BPS till the day I die. The industry also seems to change gradually. Back in the day something like Death Note simply wouldn't happen, but then Death Note did happen, and then we got Attack on Titan, Psycho-Pass, and a new adaptation of Parasyte, none of which I could say have any major tropes, and yet all were big and instant hits. Although we're still waiting for the AoT 2nd season, it isn't because of a lack of interest. Sometimes it's also important to broaden your horizons, and realize there's still a lot out there you aren't even giving a chance, or things you didn't even know existed. After Prince of Tennis I was under the impression that all sports anime were lackluster, but eventually found some gems that hooked me to the genre. I also thought JoJo looked kinda dumb, but eventually watched the intro to the first season from a link someone put up on this site, and now I've finished the series just last week. I definitely emphasize things I feel more likely to be interested in, but every now and then I'll give something a shot that I don't think I'll like, because I might just be pleasantly surprised. I have no problems with 1 or 2 cour anime that are intended to be that length. I love Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Last Exile and similar single season shows. But those are pretty rare. More problematic are shows like Tokyo Ghoul and Grisaia no Kajitsu, which crushed way too much material into a single cour(Grisaia is particularly bad because it shoved 70 hours of content into 5 hours of show). And I call shenanigans on saying that shows like Death Note are some new thing. Serial Experiments Lain came out in 1998. Perfect Blue in 1999. Texhnolyze in 2003. There have always been a few shows here and there that stood out as something different from the usual. Hell, Cowboy Bebop was quite different from most of its contemporaries, and look how popular that show got. I'm not saying that good shows don't exist. I'm watching 7 different shows this season alone. It's the trends in the industry and the reasons for them existing that bother me. When a studio wants to make another season of a show and can't because domestic sales didn't do well enough(e.g. Rokka no Yuusha), I feel that the industry should start looking to more than just the domestic market. |
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 6, 2016 18:45:26 GMT -6
I think I'm on the other side of the argument relating to Scars. Part of what makes anime so brilliant is that it only lasts a season or two. Within just one season, they have to have a beginning, middle, and end, and so it's all a completely wrapped up story. Of course, this doesn't apply to anime that are made to advertise their manga, which is something I wish didn't have to exist in this world. Sometimes these anime simply don't have an ending, such as One Outs. But if you look carefully, anime without respective mangas also sometimes don't have an ending, so it isn't as if it's the only issue here. We're lucky Big O got an ending, and I'll probably be waiting for an ending to BPS till the day I die. The industry also seems to change gradually. Back in the day something like Death Note simply wouldn't happen, but then Death Note did happen, and then we got Attack on Titan, Psycho-Pass, and a new adaptation of Parasyte, none of which I could say have any major tropes, and yet all were big and instant hits. Although we're still waiting for the AoT 2nd season, it isn't because of a lack of interest. Sometimes it's also important to broaden your horizons, and realize there's still a lot out there you aren't even giving a chance, or things you didn't even know existed. After Prince of Tennis I was under the impression that all sports anime were lackluster, but eventually found some gems that hooked me to the genre. I also thought JoJo looked kinda dumb, but eventually watched the intro to the first season from a link someone put up on this site, and now I've finished the series just last week. I definitely emphasize things I feel more likely to be interested in, but every now and then I'll give something a shot that I don't think I'll like, because I might just be pleasantly surprised. I have no problems with 1 or 2 cour anime that are intended to be that length. I love Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Last Exile and similar single season shows. But those are pretty rare. More problematic are shows like Tokyo Ghoul and Grisaia no Kajitsu, which crushed way too much material into a single cour(Grisaia is particularly bad because it shoved 70 hours of content into 5 hours of show). And I call shenanigans on saying that shows like Death Note are some new thing. Serial Experiments Lain came out in 1998. Perfect Blue in 1999. Texhnolyze in 2003. There have always been a few shows here and there that stood out as something different from the usual. Hell, Cowboy Bebop was quite different from most of its contemporaries, and look how popular that show got. I'm not saying that good shows don't exist. I'm watching 7 different shows this season alone. It's the trends in the industry and the reasons for them existing that bother me. When a studio wants to make another season of a show and can't because domestic sales didn't do well enough(e.g. Rokka no Yuusha), I feel that the industry should start looking to more than just the domestic market. Yuusha didn't deserve a season 2. Sure it was left unfinished, but the whole of season 1 was pretty lackluster. It picked up towards the end like I hoped it would, but that was way too late for a 12 episode anime. For it to break out of a domestic market I feel wouldn't be enough for it. It wasn't that the format cursed it either, as there are plenty of outstanding 12 episode animes. Devil Part Timer was 13 episode and had a fulfilled plot. I don't know how well that did domestically but I do think if it did poorly there, it could still do well elsewhere. |
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 6, 2016 19:10:19 GMT -6
Going to have to heavily disagree about Rokka. That was pretty much my anime of the year, a sentiment felt all the more now that I've read the first light novel and saw how amazingly close they kept the adaptation to the source material. About the only thing they left out was the 7th's perspective that the LN sprinkles throughout the story. It was different than other adaptations because it was a 1:1 adaptation instead of a rushed glorified ad like most other LN adaptations are. The pacing was slow, but then what we got in Rokka no Yuusha was kind of the equivalent to the first cour of Steins;Gate. If S;G had never been allowed to adapt the second half of the show, people would say that it was terrible. The real action in Rokka starts after Volume 1.
And it's funny that you mention The Devil is a Part Timer, as it is another example of why the industry as it is annoys me. The show is good, certainly. But it's far from complete. The anime only covers 2 of 14 and counting light novels. But because the show was just an advertisement for the light novels, we'll likely never see a season 2.
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Post by crocodile on Mar 6, 2016 19:13:13 GMT -6
I had a pretty good laugh when I read Attack on Titan and Parasyte weren't filled with obnoxious tropes (Because they totally were) Anyway, I do agree that the anime market would probably be healthier if it could make shows that could sell well and command good licensing fees overseas. The issue is two fold however: A) Making something that will be popular overseas is difficult because it's hard to figure out what will be successful in an environment you aren't intimately familiar with. Art is both a reflection of the environment it was created in and can influence the environment around it. If you weren't raised in or have spent extensive time in foreign environments, you have to guess or rely on marketing data to try to figure out how to make an appealing product and even then you can miss big time. Like imagine if a crew of American animators was tasked with making a show that would be a Japanese hit. Even if many of them had consumed a lot of Japanese media, its just going to be harder for them and its too easy to just churn out some tropey, derivative work because you think its what an overseas audience may want. B) Someone has to pay for anime to get made. If your patron(s) is someone like Netflix (which actually recently announced its funding a new anime called Perfect Bones), Crunchyroll or Funimation (which helped pay for the Dimension W anime that just showed up on Toonami recently) then they are going to have a vested interest in making sure said anime can do well overseas. If you patron(s) are like the Happy Good Time Fun Company (I made that name up) who have no influence in overseas markets, they are going to care more that a show can be successful in Japan. There are more patrons of the later type than the former type. The below video touches upon some of the points brought up in this thread but is a still good review of the "situation": Here's an article series that goes into the economy of making and selling anime with some historical examples. There's also another good article series out there that I'm having trouble finding but its overall point was that anime production has tended to become more niche over time because Japan's economy tanked and made the people funding anime more risk averse so they tended to target niche audiences with money to burn. I REALLY wish I could find that article series I have in mind. |
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). There's no need to put "feminist" in quotes - the vast majority are reasonable people who don't want to ban anything or burn books or whatever. People are allowed to critique media - sometimes they are off the mark but sometimes they are spot on. Just as they should use context in their critiques, so should you in your condemnations of them. Where do you live by the way? For better or worse, different countries have different tolerances for different things. That's just something we have to accept. Even if certain groups are hypersensitive to specific topics doesn't mean they don't have a point frequently. Again, context is king.
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