Bloodstained Graphics Discussion.

You guys, castledan and Dan Guest are the same person. I'm still seeing them referred to as separate individuals occasionally, haha.

Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin's art is pretty similar, yeah. I don't know of a better term than "more anime" to describe it with, but that's definitely what comes to mind. PoR looking like it did kept me from playing it for years, actually, but when I actually gave the game a shot I loved it.

Regardless, as far as art, I can't see Portrait = Dawn = Bloodstained at all. Not in the concept art, definitely. That looks like it was inspired from Order of Ecclesia and early Igavania. The Dawn/PoR style looks more animated, flat with plain features, etc. If you're taking this just from Miriam's character model, well, I think any of these characters in 3D would look similarly. Alucard being the bishounen dude that he is would have very few "realistic" facial features in 3D if he was true to his design. There isn't really a (reasonably feasible) way to model Kojima art in three dimensions, so leaning more towards an animated look is preferable to anything more realistic. It still feels like a game that way, too.

I'm not getting the kiddy/young cartoon vibe you guys are at all. Castlevania has always been heavy subject matter, with lighthearted silliness thrown in everywhere and that's what I like about it. There are hearts everywhere and exploding walls with plated turkeys in them. If Bloodstained tries to introduce new, similar things like that into the game, I hope you would see it as a similar deepening of the game world's personality rather than it being for kids because it doesn't fit a gothic description.

Yeah, a lot of people thought that was what it was going to look like but it isn't at all. To be honest I feel like they really shouldn't have done that as it has caused a lot of people to think that is what the project was going to look like. It isn't even in 3.5D from what I can tell. I'm pretty sure they explained that it was basically concept art that was set up to have a character move around near. As you can see from the recent screenshots they are worlds apart.

It is a test though. And a very difficult one to delve in and flush detail out of. Since it isn't the video itself but a camera recording on an angle... Now it would be one thing had it been shown directly, to see the quality of the content instead of someone playing it (with them in the shot, which makes me think the monitor was intentionally obscured).

I dunno but making rush decisions based on something you cannot thoroughly see isn't the best base of argument for quality of graphics. And if that is what people wanted, then that isn't the best spending of the 5 million they gave. This is the double edged sword of crowd funding...

People always say it'll look better but that just isn't always the case. It's not about looking better it's about the aesthetic and look they're going for. If it leaves a lot to be desired that aspect likely won't change. Maybe it'll get polished up a lot before release but the actual visual style won't. A lot of people said the same about Mighty No 9. It's still early it'll look much better upon nearing release, and honestly it still looks underwhelming, not because it didn't get polished enough but because of it's art design/visual style.

So what I'm saying is, if you don't have a very inspired visual style to start off with it's highly unlikely that will be improved by time of release.
Some people love this design, I don't particularly care for it. I was hoping for a much more gothic looking game that has way more of a artistic look to it.

It's incredibly hard to describe what I mean is...

I was hoping for an art design ( i realize it's 2d but bear with me)





And less along the lines of something like this -



one looks incredibly gothic, moody, and the art design itself looks based in reality despite it being in a cartoon depiction, whereas the other is color, simplistically textured, doll house effect, BIG over-sized depictions of envrionments...( which is like the banisters in the pic)


Is the second example a bit extreme? Sure, I don't hate the look of bloodstained first official screens. I think the character model is absolutely perfect but the environment just worries me, as I'd hope the goal is to achieve my first example in a 2.5d space in terms of DESIGN, and less of the second example which reminds me more of Mighty no 9. 


TO REITERATE, I'm not saying the look of Bloodstained is on level with Mighty No 9 or the example i use here. I'm just saying that's the best way i can describe it, it reminds me of those things and less of the first example which is my dream...AESTHETIC. Which is moody, gothic, but still can be colorful, and has a realistic art design.

Don't feel bad for expressing your opinions on this. It's the only way you'll get heard, and as a backer you deserve as much of a say as anyone else. The examples you posted do a good job of getting your point across; I can see what you mean by the "cartoony" vibe that the Bloodstained shots give off in terms of the look of the environment. I don't know if the actual game will look this way, as I think the room shown in the screens was just quickly thrown together for the purpose of showing off the shaders. But only time will tell I guess.

Also, you reminded me how beautiful Bloodrayne Betrayal is. Beautiful, but really damn frustrating. 

Yeah, that definitely expresses your point and I think we can all better see what you mean now. Trust me, I (probably most of us) don't want Mighty No. 9-looking anything. I would echo what Valtiel said up there, this room they showed us may very well not be representative of the actual atmosphere we end up getting. If you were to look at the screens and imagine the banisters/railing looking a bit more angular/gothic, would that change your whole impression of the room? The architecture otherwise seems to fit what I'd like fine, lacking only in some details. There is then the question of perspective, but I'll just defer to their judgment on that.

You know what's a good middle ground between cartoony and gritty gothic?

Ultimate Ghosts N Goblins for PSP

( obviously with the better tech of today it'd be a nice middle approach ( but with more realistic character models)




This hits the nail on the head. It's vibrant, it's cartoony sure but it's gritty and very detailed. That doesn't mean it has to have a realistic grit to it they could do cel shaded for all I care. I'm just saying I feel like the environment in the pic is too simple and sterile looking, this shows something that isn't sterile looking.


Watch video and let me know what you guys think. Obviously i'm not saying they should make everything SQUISHED looking, I'm purely talking aesthetic.

CastleDan (or Dan G - why do you sometimes post as a guest? Even if you're posting from mobile you should be able to post from your account), there is no reason to feel bad about expressing your opinion. Even if I or others disagree with you, your opinion is welcome. Just be courteous (which you usually seem to be) and be clear & precise in what you mean (which you sometimes aren't but that's just my opinion). I really had no idea what you meant by "kiddie" and I still maintain it was not the appropriate word choice. In my experience online over the years, its basically never the appropriate word choice and people who stand by it without more/better elaboration either can't articulate their point well enough or don't really have much of a point to begin with. Ducktales and Mighty No 9 might have appeal to younger audiences but that has a lot to do with their character, enemy, world design which just isn't replicated in Bloodstained. Level of detail doesn't really correlate with "maturity" and I think if you look beyond Ducktales or MN9, you'll see a variety of games with more "simple" backgrounds that aim for older audiences.

Anyway, I think the examples you provided with Bloodrayne & Ducktales do a better job of illustrating your preferences and I appreciate that. I'm not sure what to tell you though. We knew they weren't going full 2D from the onset so getting something that looks similar to Bloodrayne was always going to be hard. Also that level of detail on those Bloodrayne shots aren't something you're going to get on a first pass but only after a lot of iteration. I don't mean to say "wait" as a means to be dismissive of your concerns but rather to stress that the developers aren't done and I don't think they can achieve the level of detail you want this early in production. I just hope you were able to rely your concerns in an understandable way in that Google Form feedback. I'm curious, what is a modern 2.5D game that you think looks good? Making comparisons to 2D games or PS2 games is going to be "tricky" for a variety of reasons. A modern example might be helpful - even to the development team as something to maybe shoot for. For example, what do you think of Trine 2 and how it looks?
 

There's nothing wrong with expressing your opinions, so don't feel bad. Dan, you are always respectful. I just wish you would log the freak in sometimes! Double posting is against the clearly rules that can be found at the top of every board.