Lelygax
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Post by Lelygax on Sept 10, 2015 6:41:44 GMT -6
This conversation made remember a guy from Saint Seiya, he was called Thor and used Mjolnir "hammers", except that these "hammers" were "axes" lol
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Apollonian
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 10, 2015 7:10:04 GMT -6
"A bow is a flexible arc which shoots aerodynamic projectiles called arrows." Check "A string joins the two ends of the bow and when the string is drawn back, the ends of the bow are flexed." Check "When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow." Check "Archery is the art or sport of shooting arrow from bows." Does not pertain to the definition of a bow.
Mission accomplished, returning to base.
In all seriousness I am not sure if there is a language barrier here or what because this is actually getting to the point where I am laughing at how poorly this discussion seems to be going. I assume this will just get ignored like most of what I have written here and you can't have a discussion when someone is unwilling to respond to your points so I am just going to go now. As I said pm me if you like because I won't see it if you post here.
I leave you with a quote summing up this thread (from a comedy, don't take it seriously): "These liberals are trying to assassinate my character.
And I can't change their mind.
I won't change my mind, 'cause I don't have to.
'Cause I'm an American.
I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me.
I'm dug in, and I'll never change."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 7:18:39 GMT -6
"When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow." Key point. Energy comes from the flexed stick, not string. You're getting a mission failed screen and I suggest you choose quit instead of retry.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 10, 2015 7:21:14 GMT -6
Just to be clear, Mike isn't an artist, he's a programmer. It would be people like Alex Ahad, Mariel Cartwright, Johnathan Kim, etc. that would be responsible for the art direction of any of Lab Zero's games. It's all a team effort of course but Mike can't draw for shit As for the impetus for the creative direction of this game, it ca be found here (o_8 is Alex Ahad). I guess some might describe that as try hard (a terrible position in this circumstance if you think about it to its logical conclusion IMO), I just call it commendable and a good idea. As I've said before, I've already straight up learned some new shit following this game. I think that's super cool o_8's post was definitely interesting and it explains why they're going in this direction. Good on him that he's having this come to fruition. Personally/selfishly, I honestly want something closer to the feel of classic tri-Ace Valkyrie Profile, which in itself though quite different has a definite more "anime" feel to it. That's likely the real bias behind my comments. Like I said, Exist Archive seems pretty far from that, being modern, chibi and very polygonal. And it'll be interesting to see if Southeast Asian themes can rival the greatness of Norse mythology...twisted and silly as it was in VP. Regarding all this bow stuff, I mean...yeah, Nya is technically right, but that sort of thing doesn't bother me any more than that bendy paper sword hat or giant airplane wings with cut-outs that pass as swords in other games...or those dumb double-bladed spear things (they made Gungnir one of these in VP, sigh). Fantasy weapons so often are impossible in reality. There's actually a youtube channel I follow that makes this more clear than ever by reproducing anime/game weapons in real life, lol. The things they have to put up with and do just to make the thing physically exist is crazy, let alone get it to practically hit soemthing. www.youtube.com/user/AweMeChannelSo I guess my point is...whatever. Video games are video games. A lot of people think historic and realistically accurate things are boring, and maybe it's for the better that they do. After all, when you factor in whatever the "magic" is that generally exists in most every game world, the impossible may actually not be so impossible by their standards/strength/vampire dexterity?
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Apollonian
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[TI2]Drink stale wine to your heart's delight
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 10, 2015 7:30:54 GMT -6
"When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow." Key point. Energy comes from the flexed stick, not string. You're getting a mission failed screen and I suggest you choose quit instead of retry. You responded before I got off so I'll try to clear this up as your refusal to just pm me is leading me to believe you simply don't want to admit you are wrong in any way. This is what we were talking about: "Also, that toy bow is just that, a toy. It looks like a bow, but doesn't work like one, even though it can fire a projectile." -your quote I said that based off of your definition it is a bow because "While the bow must bend to fire the arrow its maximum distance, the arrow will still fly even if I don't pull it hard enough to bend the bow." So the toy does everything from your definition. It also can fire slightly based off of the elasticity of the string like any other bow (that doesn't mean the arrow travels far). If you are claiming the toy isn't a bow because of the sting it is like saying a saxophone isn't a saxophone because you can play it by buzzing your lips into the neckpeice in addition to the standard playing method of using a mouthpiece with a reed. Now do you see what I am saying? If not please specifically state where the confusion is and don't just ignore the points I am making.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 7:55:42 GMT -6
I think I was more than clear enough on the topic. You thinking that I'm wrong makes no difference to me and certainly won't encourage me to give you a step-by-step explanation, so feel free to stop replying. purifyweirdshard I, for one, adore striking enemies with stuffed plushies! Seriously though, I have absolutely nothing against unique weapons as they can be absolutely great.
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Apollonian
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[TI2]Drink stale wine to your heart's delight
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 10, 2015 8:08:01 GMT -6
Yes, I believe your intentions perfectly clear. We are finally in agreement so I won't bother you anymore.
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Post by Artemisian on Sept 10, 2015 8:23:01 GMT -6
Oh goodness RVM, this is a battle that is pointless and sad, please, if they don't understand they don't understand. Basically what I am getting from this, is yes, indeed, the bow would not fire properly in real life. BUT since this is a game, no problem, no reason for it to look realistic, it is going to work like a bow because it is meant to be a bow in the game. This isn't like a blueprint for a new weapon design for people to use. So why is this an issue? We have all acknowledged that this cannot be used in real life, right? Okay.
Anyway, I think the art style is definitely interesting, I would probably, well definitely buy this if it were co-op. And alternate colors are always exciting to me as well, so I hope they keep that. (I'd rather choose my own, but I'll take what I can get.) I am not a huge fighting fan, but I enjoyed the little stories for Skullgirls, so hopefully they continue with being interesting, because I love RPGs. I choose Razmi. You can choose Ajna, RVM. ^.^
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Apollonian
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[TI2]Drink stale wine to your heart's delight
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 10, 2015 8:33:49 GMT -6
Oh goodness RVM, this is a battle that is pointless and sad, please, if they don't understand they don't understand. Basically what I am getting from this, is yes, indeed, the bow would not fire properly in real life. BUT since this is a game, no problem, no reason for it to look realistic, it is going to work like a bow because it is meant to be a bow in the game. This isn't like a blueprint for a new weapon design for people to use. So why is this an issue? We have all acknowledged that this cannot be used in real life, right? Okay. Anyway, I think the art style is definitely interesting, I would probably, well definitely buy this if it were co-op. And alternate colors are always exciting to me as well, so I hope they keep that. (I'd rather choose my own, but I'll take what I can get.) I am not a huge fighting fan, but I enjoyed the little stories for Skullgirls, so hopefully they continue with being interesting, because I love RPGs. I choose Razmi. You can choose Ajna, RVM. ^.^ You're right, I relent. *angrily fires toy bow at your butt* It is sad that it isn't coop but it should be really fun regardless. I really like their art style for Skullgirls and this game looks promising. I knew you would like Razmi, and yes if I had to pick a character it would be Ajna. ^_^
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Post by Artemisian on Sept 10, 2015 11:13:08 GMT -6
Hey..I don't appreciate violence towards me. Shh..shh don't say that, I can dream about the cooperation. Maybe they will add something? Maybe? Maybe? Maaaybe? But I agree, I guess it will be fun. Of course I like Razmi, she has an adorable tiger cape and I do the exact same thing with my eye when I swing around my oil lantern.
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Post by crocodile on Sept 10, 2015 12:43:51 GMT -6
Animation of the new enemy (called an Ahp) seen in the battle prototype video: It was from here fyi, but we should really stop, like we said. I'm just banning myself from this thread as everything I wanted to say is here already. If you need any clarification just reread my posts, the answer is there I'm sure. If something is really bugging you though you can pm me. Maybe you should reread the bolded segment. A) There is a difference between a drawstring that lengthens because more is added from some sort of wind-up mechanism and internal/external spool and a string that lengthens because it is elastic and is placed under increased tension. The later is how all bow strings work to some degree, you mentioning lengthening as part of a counterargument against me only makes sense if you are still operating under your wind-up (or something similar) hypothesis. That is what I mean by "how can you tell it lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest" as in "how can you tell its not just stretching as all bow strings do to some degree". If the bow string WAS at maximum tension at rest, any additional tension would cause it to break not stretch. ...etc. I link you to an article explaining what a bow string is and its desired properties, define the weapon in question and in the same post tell rvmcy why the string expanding to twice its size can't be an artistic exaggeration. Your response to all of this? Ignoring all the presented facts and arguments which serve to define what a bow, bow string and the characters weapon is in favor of a sad attempt at dismissing the entire post as an improper counterargument, while I was, in fact, teaching you what a bow string is in that post, as you have the wrong idea as how much a bow string should lengthen. Good job. I don't understand why you are so obstinate here, especially as you just replied to purifyweirdsoul that you're fine with fantasy weapons. I know how a bow works. Your attempts at education have long crossed the line of being helpful to being condescending. If you refuse to call it a bow that's your choice, I can't force you to do anything. However, even if minor errors in physics are present (which I've never denied), it's clear as day what the intentions of the developers are (you can even ask them if you want via their Twitter that I posted in the OP or if you post in a forum they post in) and it is clear how people will view the weapon. Why you refuse to extend the minimum amount of leeway necessary to enjoy fictional constructs to this as you yourself admit are able to do elsewhere I'll never know. If it makes you happy to insist this bow isn't a bow (by similar logic Donald Duck isn't a duck because he can speak English ), ok. Whatever makes you happy. I'll drop the discussion. Just to be clear, Mike isn't an artist, he's a programmer. It would be people like Alex Ahad, Mariel Cartwright, Johnathan Kim, etc. that would be responsible for the art direction of any of Lab Zero's games. It's all a team effort of course but Mike can't draw for shit As for the impetus for the creative direction of this game, it ca be found here (o_8 is Alex Ahad). I guess some might describe that as try hard (a terrible position in this circumstance if you think about it to its logical conclusion IMO), I just call it commendable and a good idea. As I've said before, I've already straight up learned some new shit following this game. I think that's super cool o_8's post was definitely interesting and it explains why they're going in this direction. Good on him that he's having this come to fruition. Personally/selfishly, I honestly want something closer to the feel of classic Tri-Ace Valkyrie Profile, which in itself though quite different has a definite more "anime" feel to it. That's likely the real bias behind my comments. Like I said, Exist Archive seems pretty far from that, being modern, chibi and very polygonal. And it'll be interesting to see if Southeast Asian themes can rival the greatness of Norse mythology...twisted and silly as it was in VP. Regarding all this bow stuff, I mean...yeah, Nya is technically right, but that sort of thing doesn't bother me any more than that bendy paper sword hat or giant airplane wings with cut-outs that pass as swords in other games...or those dumb double-bladed spear things (they made Gungnir one of these in VP, sigh). Fantasy weapons so often are impossible in reality. There's actually a youtube channel I follow that makes this more clear than ever by reproducing anime/game weapons in real life, lol. The things they have to put up with and do just to make the thing physically exist is crazy, let alone get it to practically hit something. www.youtube.com/user/AweMeChannelSo I guess my point is...whatever. Video games are video games. A lot of people think historic and realistically accurate things are boring, and maybe it's for the better that they do. After all, when you factor in whatever the "magic" is that generally exists in most every game world, the impossible may actually not be so impossible by their standards/strength/vampire dexterity? Were the Valkyrie Profile games big sellers? The impression I've always had is that they were not. The unfortunate sense I get is that a game with the aesthetics, mythology and design of something like VP might be a hard sell in the current Japanese market when compared to something like Exist Archive. To hit that spot VP aims for, I get the sense that it might need to be a game pushed through by Western interests, where looking like Exist Archive may be more of a detriment, be it through the traditional publisher model or crowdfunding. I could be wrong though.
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Apollonian
Loyal Familiar
[TI2]Drink stale wine to your heart's delight
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 10, 2015 13:39:05 GMT -6
Hey..I don't appreciate violence towards me. Shh..shh don't say that, I can dream about the cooperation. Maybe they will add something? Maybe? Maybe? Maaaybe? But I agree, I guess it will be fun. Of course I like Razmi, she has an adorable tiger cape and I do the exact same thing with my eye when I swing around my oil lantern. Suuuure... Yeah, I would be happy if it was even something as simple as coop in FF9. Well you shouldn't be swinging oil lantern's around irl. Our original minecraft world showed us the dangers of fire. That new enemy design looks incredibly cool.
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Post by Goobsausage on Sept 10, 2015 14:18:51 GMT -6
The new enemy kinda reminds me of what Lab Zero did with Double and some of the other characters in Skullgirls where there's detailed levels of buts/blood/gore in order to look grotesque. It gives me the heebie-jeebies and makes me feel uncomfortable, but if I'm getting that kind of response to their work, the creative team is probably doing something right.
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Post by Artemisian on Sept 10, 2015 14:53:04 GMT -6
Hey..I don't appreciate violence towards me. Shh..shh don't say that, I can dream about the cooperation. Maybe they will add something? Maybe? Maybe? Maaaybe? But I agree, I guess it will be fun. Of course I like Razmi, she has an adorable tiger cape and I do the exact same thing with my eye when I swing around my oil lantern. Suuuure... Yeah, I would be happy if it was even something as simple as coop in FF9. Well you shouldn't be swinging oil lantern's around irl. Our original minecraft world showed us the dangers of fire. That new enemy design looks incredibly cool. I like doing the violence. You act as if I did something with the minecraft world, when in fact, it was you who poured LAVA in the wooden house I slaved over for hours and hours. The new enemy is so neat! I like the snake mouth. Extra wide/unnatural mouths on humans kind of creep me out lol. I definitely hope they stick with the creepy gorish stuff, it intrigues me.
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Apollonian
Loyal Familiar
[TI2]Drink stale wine to your heart's delight
Posts: 305
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 10, 2015 17:01:36 GMT -6
Hey, I punched out that window and ran to the river with just a bucket in my hands and a dream in my heart. Luckily we quit before the autosave when that failed to stop the raging flames. Yeah, the enemy's hair and mouth remind me of that one awakened one from claymore. I am excited to see more enemies if they keep this tone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 23:52:03 GMT -6
I don't understand why you are so obstinate here, especially as you just replied to purifyweirdsoul that you're fine with fantasy weapons. I know how a bow works. Your attempts at education have long crossed the line of being helpful to being condescending. If you refuse to call it a bow that's your choice, I can't force you to do anything. However, even if minor errors in physics are present (which I've never denied), it's clear as day what the intentions of the developers are (you can even ask them if you want via their Twitter that I posted in the OP or if you post in a forum they post in) and it is clear how people will view the weapon. Why you refuse to extend the minimum amount of leeway necessary to enjoy fictional constructs to this as you yourself admit are able to do elsewhere I'll never know. If it makes you happy to insist this bow isn't a bow (by similar logic Donald Duck isn't a duck because he can speak English ), ok. Whatever makes you happy. I'll drop the discussion. I already noted this, but if that thing is a bow then there is a lack of internal consistency in the art direction. If more oddities (that act akin to this "bow") pop-up, then it will be evident that such exaggeration is the chosen artistic direction and I'll be happy to call that thing a bow.
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Post by Artemisian on Sept 11, 2015 8:27:31 GMT -6
Hey, I punched out that window and ran to the river with just a bucket in my hands and a dream in my heart. Luckily we quit before the autosave when that failed to stop the raging flames. Yeah, the enemy's hair and mouth remind me of that one awakened one from claymore. I am excited to see more enemies if they keep this tone. It will be okay because I will learn how to swing the lantern so the oil that falls out looks like a tiger and then I will set that on fire! And if all goes according to plan, the oil will burn out before it hits the ground. I agree, the head is similar to the awakened being! I know this enemy is more than likely regular size, but I think it would be really cool if they had huge creepy enemies/bosses like that. Regardless, I am actually really interested in this game, so I think we should both back it! Toy bow and all!
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Apollonian
Loyal Familiar
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 11, 2015 9:03:34 GMT -6
Hey, I punched out that window and ran to the river with just a bucket in my hands and a dream in my heart. Luckily we quit before the autosave when that failed to stop the raging flames. Yeah, the enemy's hair and mouth remind me of that one awakened one from claymore. I am excited to see more enemies if they keep this tone. It will be okay because I will learn how to swing the lantern so the oil that falls out looks like a tiger and then I will set that on fire! And if all goes according to plan, the oil will burn out before it hits the ground. I agree, the head is similar to the awakened being! I know this enemy is more than likely regular size, but I think it would be really cool if they had huge creepy enemies/bosses like that. Regardless, I am actually really interested in this game, so I think we should both back it! Toy bow and all! Yeah, I don't think this is one of your best plans. I hope they have a lot of giant creepy enemies too, they are not found very often in games imo. Aside from the Shovel Knight disc release I don't recall anything else coming out next month so we should be able to back it. Speaking of the bow, which weapon do you think is the coolest so far? I think it is the lantern/magic (and I am usually not a magic person).
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Post by Goobsausage on Sept 11, 2015 13:21:42 GMT -6
The turban sword looks the coolest to me so far because it is both a hat and a weapon. Kinda like Kung Lao or Oddjob's hats, but you use it as a whip-like sword rather than a projectile.
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Post by Artemisian on Sept 11, 2015 13:35:10 GMT -6
Yeah, I don't think this is one of your best plans. I hope they have a lot of giant creepy enemies too, they are not found very often in games imo. Aside from the Shovel Knight disc release I don't recall anything else coming out next month so we should be able to back it. Speaking of the bow, which weapon do you think is the coolest so far? I think it is the lantern/magic (and I am usually not a magic person). It is not one of my best, it is my best. I know! It is either average size creepy or just giant with no creepy. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Castlevania having giant creepy enemies. I can't think of anything coming out either.. So neat, I think it is worth backing. I like the lantern the best too. After that I like the sword, bow, then axe. Though for the character designs, I like Razmi, Ajna, Zebei, and then Tungar.
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