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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 0:34:59 GMT -6
One character has a bow (Mongolian style), one has an axe, one uses standard fire themed magic using a lantern and one uses a urumi (a real if impractical weapon) -That's not a bow, notice the thread spools and how the "bow" limbs aren't bent. It seems to work on a wind-up mechanism. -Hatchet, as in woodcutting tool and not single handed axe akin to a tomahawk. -Fire shaman (or anything similar) with a tiger motif, hardly standard. -Do I even have to comment how this one is trying too hard? So yeah, it's a "weird group of weapons".
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Post by crocodile on Sept 7, 2015 13:03:14 GMT -6
One character has a bow (Mongolian style), one has an axe, one uses standard fire themed magic using a lantern and one uses a urumi (a real if impractical weapon) -That's not a bow, notice the thread spools and how the "bow" limbs aren't bent. It seems to work on a wind-up mechanism. -Hatchet, as in woodcutting tool and not single handed axe akin to a tomahawk. -Fire shaman (or anything similar) with a tiger motif, hardly standard. -Do I even have to comment how this one is trying too hard? So yeah, it's a "weird group of weapons". A) Of course its a bow, just stylized. It's akin to: B) There have been so many variations of axes across games - not all of them being practical. I'm not seeing why this is bothering you here. (Tomahawks are also specifically Native American) C) Shaman, Witch, Black Mage, whatever its the same ballpark of archetype (I don't think many games have all 3 but they basically always have at least one of them). I don't know of another character that hits all the same marks as Razmi (which is a good thing or else she'd just be a copy & paste character) but there are familiar elements there. D) What does trying too hard even mean here? This bothers you but would say a standard whip or a scimitar be ok? Why? Unique or "impractical but cool" weaponry is a par for the course in video games (RPGs, Igavanias, etc.) Like I don't think I've ever seen anyone criticize a game because it wasn't generic enough. That's why I'm so puzzled.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 7, 2015 13:41:16 GMT -6
-I don't really think it was supposed to look like a recurve bow (like in your picture) or they would have strung it to the tips. I do believe it is a bow though and I don't see any indication from the picture that there is a windup mechanism although that would be really cool and there is no reason they couldn't say it does that (I just don't think it is safe to assume that). - As a guy that has had to chop wood many a winter I have to say that axe looks several times too big to be a hatchet. Both the length and the mass of the blade make it appear as a short battle axe. Axes don't have to be long to be considered an axe. The length seems similar to some Parashu I've seen and they are short so they can be wielded with 1-hand (still long enough for two-handed). I could be wrong though, the art-style isn't exactly photorealistic. - Ever watch/read Rurouni Kenshin? 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 0:14:37 GMT -6
A) Of course its a bow, just stylized. It's akin to: *image* B) There have been so many variations of axes across games - not all of them being practical. I'm not seeing why this is bothering you here. (Tomahawks are also specifically Native American) C) Shaman, Witch, Black Mage, whatever its the same ballpark of archetype (I don't think many games have all 3 but they basically always have at least one of them). I don't know of another character that hits all the same marks as Razmi (which is a good thing or else she'd just be a copy & paste character) but there are familiar elements there. D) What does trying too hard even mean here? This bothers you but would say a standard whip or a scimitar be ok? Why? Unique or "impractical but cool" weaponry is a par for the course in video games (RPGs, Igavanias, etc.) Like I don't think I've ever seen anyone criticize a game because it wasn't generic enough. That's why I'm so puzzled. -A lighter shaped like a gun is not a gun, but a lighter. Notice the length of the pulled line, if you see no issues there then you should probably google how a bow works. -I'm pointing out that it's an unorthodox choice of weapon, as its original use is for woodcutting. It's akin to choosing a kitchen knife or baseball bat as a main weapon. It's there to make a statement, unless there is no other weapon at hand. -Only if you classify them all as magic casters. Sure, the character here has familiar elements from various magic classes, but they're blended in an unfamiliar mess that lacks synergy, at least to me. -That they've intentionally picked an unusual weapon to add to the original content flavor. Never said that. I believe I was quite clear in my original statement. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to twist my words.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 8, 2015 7:55:57 GMT -6
I detest the SK artstyle and I don't like how hard they're trying to make each character original (in terms of distancing them from popular designs).
If you give all your characters weird/unorthodox weapons, it lessens the impact of each individual character design.
By making everyone odd, they're making odd normal and thus boring.
Yep. Why didn't you guys jump on me when I said it? lol
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Post by crocodile on Sept 8, 2015 14:06:51 GMT -6
A) Of course its a bow, just stylized. It's akin to: *image* B) There have been so many variations of axes across games - not all of them being practical. I'm not seeing why this is bothering you here. (Tomahawks are also specifically Native American) C) Shaman, Witch, Black Mage, whatever its the same ballpark of archetype (I don't think many games have all 3 but they basically always have at least one of them). I don't know of another character that hits all the same marks as Razmi (which is a good thing or else she'd just be a copy & paste character) but there are familiar elements there. D) What does trying too hard even mean here? This bothers you but would say a standard whip or a scimitar be ok? Why? Unique or "impractical but cool" weaponry is a par for the course in video games (RPGs, Igavanias, etc.) Like I don't think I've ever seen anyone criticize a game because it wasn't generic enough. That's why I'm so puzzled. -A lighter shaped like a gun is not a gun, but a lighter. Notice the length of the pulled line, if you see no issues there then you should probably google how a bow works. -I'm pointing out that it's an unorthodox choice of weapon, as its original use is for woodcutting. It's akin to choosing a kitchen knife or baseball bat as a main weapon. It's there to make a statement, unless there is no other weapon at hand. -Only if you classify them all as magic casters. Sure, the character here has familiar elements from various magic classes, but they're blended in an unfamiliar mess that lacks synergy, at least to me. -That they've intentionally picked an unusual weapon to add to the original content flavor. Never said that. I believe I was quite clear in my original statement. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to twist my words. A) It's clearly a bow. Are you really trying to argue it isn't a bow? I know how bows work and what they look like. There is a huge variation in how bows are constructed in real life and an even bigger variation in fantasy (video games) where you can take designs that wouldn't be feasible in real life and make them work. B) You say that as if kitchen knifes and baseball bats haven't already been used as weapons in critically acclaimed and well loved RPGs already  Anyway, saying that anything that isn't a broadsword (or whatever is on your seemingly narrow list of "acceptable" weapons) is "trying to make a statement" and using that as a pejorative is absurd. I mean its fine if you don't like axes I guess or prefer other weapons types but your stated position reads as alien. C) She's seems to be a slightly off-kilter (and perhaps sleep deprived) shaman. She wears a pretty standard dress with a Tiger pelt on top. It seems to be a pretty straight forward and simple design. A mess would be like whatever Velvet from Tales of Berseria is wearing. Like I need a frame of reference here because I'm not sure what you consider a clean design (while I expect a certain amount of subjectivity, I feel like most should be able to agree on what design looks clean and what does not). D) "That they've intentionally picked an unusual weapon to add to the original content flavor." is a neutral statement and something tons of games do. You specifically used "try too hard" which is a negative critique. Since I fail to see the error they've made nor do I know what would constitute "trying the right amount" your critique confuses me. That is my only point. Yep. Why didn't you guys jump on me when I said it? lol Sorry I must have missed your post. *Jumps on purifyweirdsoul*  I dunno, asking for something to be "more generic" has to be one of the more disheartening & depressing things you can ask of a creative endeavor. Personal preferences and all that but all I can do is  That's even putting aside that "anime artstyle" can mean a wide range of things. I've seen way too many Steam or KS games try for that "look at how stereotypically anime we are!" and my eyes couldn't roll in their sockets any faster. Even though the art for Castlevania games like Dawn of Sorrow & Portrait of Ruin and the games Kojima did art for SOTN, Aria of Sorrow, etc. or the art done for Order of Eccelsia by Masaki Hirooka were all "anime styled/influenced", there is a reason (at least among the Western fandom) that the art of DoS/PoR are at best tolerated and at worst despised and Kojima's/Hirooka's art is lauded. I feel pretty confident in saying Bloodstained would have failed to garner quite as many backers if it looked like DoS or PoR.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 16:05:20 GMT -6
A) It's clearly a bow. Are you really trying to argue it isn't a bow? I know how bows work and what they look like. There is a huge variation in how bows are constructed in real life and an even bigger variation in fantasy (video games) where you can take designs that wouldn't be feasible in real life and make them work. You apparently have no idea, hence why I asked you to google it."A bow is a flexible arc which shoots aerodynamic projectiles called arrows. A string joins the two ends of the bow and when the string is drawn back, the ends of the bow are flexed. When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow. Archery is the art or sport of shooting arrow from bows." Now, again, look at the length of the "bow" and look at the length of the string here. Notice the difference in length even if you consider the "bow" to be flexed and try to straighten it up. The string is at least twice the length of the "bow" section where it connects. Do you still not see the issue? Will you attempt to argue that the string is permanently loose on this thing? Because that won't turn it into a bow. This thing likely has some sort of spring/wind-up mechanism, as the string is obviously stored in/on at least one of those spools (you can clearly see it on the lower one) and when you let go of it it draws back and propels the arrow. I won't touch on any of the other parts of your post as this one alone gives me enough of a headache and I have no interest in discussing those until this one is cleared up.
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Post by crocodile on Sept 8, 2015 17:26:20 GMT -6
A) It's clearly a bow. Are you really trying to argue it isn't a bow? I know how bows work and what they look like. There is a huge variation in how bows are constructed in real life and an even bigger variation in fantasy (video games) where you can take designs that wouldn't be feasible in real life and make them work. You apparently have no idea, hence why I asked you to google it."A bow is a flexible arc which shoots aerodynamic projectiles called arrows. A string joins the two ends of the bow and when the string is drawn back, the ends of the bow are flexed. When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow. Archery is the art or sport of shooting arrow from bows." Now, again, look at the length of the "bow" and look at the length of the string here. Notice the difference in length even if you consider the "bow" to be flexed and try to straighten it up. The string is at least twice the length of the "bow" section where it connects. Do you still not see the issue? Will you attempt to argue that the string is permanently loose on this thing? Because that won't turn it into a bow. This thing likely has some sort of spring/wind-up mechanism, as the string is obviously stored in/on at least one of those spools (you can clearly see it on the lower one) and when you let go of it it draws back and propels the arrow. I won't touch on any of the other parts of your post as this one alone gives me enough of a headache and I have no interest in discussing those until this one is cleared up. The type of bow Zebei uses is a stylized (as in not an exact recreation and it has some exaggerations/flourishes added to it) Mongolian Bow. It's a type of Recurve Bow - this falls under the bit when I said Bows come in all shapes and sizes and is even listed as a bow type in your Wiki-link. Did you watch the prototype video? Because even though the character uses the bow in some unusual ways, the body of the bow still clearly bends and flexes when the string is tugged - just as any bow would. I don't need to guess how the bow works, I can literally watch how it works. I honestly don't think you are arguing with me in good faith here.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 8, 2015 17:46:25 GMT -6
A) It's clearly a bow. Are you really trying to argue it isn't a bow? I know how bows work and what they look like. There is a huge variation in how bows are constructed in real life and an even bigger variation in fantasy (video games) where you can take designs that wouldn't be feasible in real life and make them work. You apparently have no idea, hence why I asked you to google it."A bow is a flexible arc which shoots aerodynamic projectiles called arrows. A string joins the two ends of the bow and when the string is drawn back, the ends of the bow are flexed. When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow. Archery is the art or sport of shooting arrow from bows." Now, again, look at the length of the "bow" and look at the length of the string here. Notice the difference in length even if you consider the "bow" to be flexed and try to straighten it up. The string is at least twice the length of the "bow" section where it connects. Do you still not see the issue? Will you attempt to argue that the string is permanently loose on this thing? Because that won't turn it into a bow. This thing likely has some sort of spring/wind-up mechanism, as the string is obviously stored in/on at least one of those spools (you can clearly see it on the lower one) and when you let go of it it draws back and propels the arrow. I won't touch on any of the other parts of your post as this one alone gives me enough of a headache and I have no interest in discussing those until this one is cleared up. How are you assuming what is inside of a weapon in a piece of concept art? This is truly baffling to me. The game clearly has a unique art style that is certainly not trying to be realistic. I'm not trying to be rude but by your logic just about every weapon in games would not be able to be called weapons. To take it further, would humans in videogames be human if they posses the ability to double jump?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 18:41:58 GMT -6
The type of bow Zebei uses is a stylized (as in not an exact recreation and it has some exaggerations/flourishes added to it) Mongolian Bow. It's a type of Recurve Bow - this falls under the bit when I said Bows come in all shapes and sizes and is even listed as a bow type in your Wiki-link. Did you watch the prototype video? Because even though the character uses the bow in some unusual ways, the body of the bow still clearly bends and flexes when the string is tugged - just as any bow would. I don't need to guess how the bow works, I can literally watch how it works. I honestly don't think you are arguing with me in good faith here. The potential energy that is used to launch a projectile comes from bending the bow. The string's length remains fixed during the process. In this case the string clearly gets longer when drawn (as evidenced by the video) while the bend itself is minimal, meaning that a good chunk (likely the vast majority) of the energy comes from the string. Whether the string is elastic or it functions like the aforementioned wind-up mechanism is up for debate, but neither option will make it a bow. You could have done without the faith remark. @rvmcy; I explained it in the very post you're quoting, the lower portion of the "bow" has something that resembles a thread spool with additional string wrapped around it.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 8, 2015 19:11:27 GMT -6
The type of bow Zebei uses is a stylized (as in not an exact recreation and it has some exaggerations/flourishes added to it) Mongolian Bow. It's a type of Recurve Bow - this falls under the bit when I said Bows come in all shapes and sizes and is even listed as a bow type in your Wiki-link. Did you watch the prototype video? Because even though the character uses the bow in some unusual ways, the body of the bow still clearly bends and flexes when the string is tugged - just as any bow would. I don't need to guess how the bow works, I can literally watch how it works. I honestly don't think you are arguing with me in good faith here. The potential energy that is used to launch a projectile comes from bending the bow. The string's length remains fixed during the process. In this case the string clearly gets longer when drawn (as evidenced by the video) while the bend itself is minimal, meaning that a good chunk (likely the vast majority) of the energy comes from the string. Whether the string is elastic or it functions like the aforementioned wind-up mechanism is up for debate, but neither option will make it a bow. You could have done without the faith remark. @rvmcy; I explained it in the very post you're quoting, the lower portion of the "bow" has something that resembles a thread spool with additional string wrapped around it. But you have to be assuming there is a mechanism inside since the string is attached above what you are mentioning. I feel that what you are talking about is a cloth wrap that seems to be loosely wrapped around that bottom part (the bottom left corner has a gap. If it was thread they wouldn't stay in a unit like that if there is that much slack.) It looks like the first character's leg wrap, if it is functional I would say it is just a grip. Also my other question was serious (not trying to be rude). My point is that everything operates in the world constructed by the artist. If, in their world, a bow does not show visible tension it does not make it any less a bow. If a person's nose is 2 feet longer than humanly possible (I'm lookin at you Zebei -_-) and the artist says they are human then are they not in fact human? Also I have a little bow (basically a toy) that has a very elastic string. While the bow must bend to fire the arrow its maximum distance, the arrow will still fly even if I don't pull it hard enough to bend the bow. If your point is that the "bow" is unlikely to be able to fire like a normal bow and do damage and therefore we should not call it a bow then you are right. We can also not call whips in Castlevania whips because they do not behave like whips. I'll allow myself one more post if you reply with anything that requires a reply back. Other than that I am going to stop as to not further derail this thread.
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Post by crocodile on Sept 8, 2015 19:42:14 GMT -6
The type of bow Zebei uses is a stylized (as in not an exact recreation and it has some exaggerations/flourishes added to it) Mongolian Bow. It's a type of Recurve Bow - this falls under the bit when I said Bows come in all shapes and sizes and is even listed as a bow type in your Wiki-link. Did you watch the prototype video? Because even though the character uses the bow in some unusual ways, the body of the bow still clearly bends and flexes when the string is tugged - just as any bow would. I don't need to guess how the bow works, I can literally watch how it works. I honestly don't think you are arguing with me in good faith here. The potential energy that is used to launch a projectile comes from bending the bow. The string's length remains fixed during the process. In this case the string clearly gets longer when drawn (as evidenced by the video) while the bend itself is minimal, meaning that a good chunk (likely the vast majority) of the energy comes from the string. Whether the string is elastic or it functions like the aforementioned wind-up mechanism is up for debate, but neither option will make it a bow. You could have done without the faith remark. "This fantasy weapon in a fantasy video game doesn't adhere to real world physics with 100% accuracy!" Is this a serious complaint? The man puts arrows in his bowstring, pulls it back (why would you assume the string lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest?), the bow flexes and shoots arrows at his enemies. If it looks like a duck, moves like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. You can argue that maybe the the bow needs to deform more or whatever but you can't argue its not a bow (What weapon type are you even arguing it is? Just say it outright.). You're familiar with Occam's Razor right? You can make all sorts of assumptions about wind up mechanisms or whatever nonsense but the simpler explanation is that the physics aren't 100% spot on because they don't have to be and that's not a realistic concern for the vast majority of videogames (including the ones I assume brought you to this message board). Even the presence of convoluted windup mechanism wouldn't make it not a bow in this universe (again this is a video game).
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Post by Lelygax on Sept 8, 2015 20:10:16 GMT -6
I think that maybe it acts like a elastic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 20:29:22 GMT -6
why would you assume the string lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest? Have fun with this."Dacron - (strength per strand = 22.5 kg (50 lb), stretch = 2.6%), a polyester material. Because of its durability and stretch, Dacron is commonly used on beginners' equipment, wooden bows, and older bows. The relatively high stretch causes less shock to the bow, which is an important consideration for wooden-handled recurves. Dacron strings are easy to maintain and can last several years." And here we have a string stretching double its size. What you have here is a stylized slingshot, not a bow. Call it a combination of the two if you want. We're done with this. As for the rest of the discussion, I've no desire to continue it as I grow weary of the snide remarks and lack of actual arguments. @rvcy; I know that your other question was serious, I just didn't bother replying because you strayed from the current discussion and I didn't want to increase the number of topics in the conversation. But alright, let us make this short. If the artist wants to call it a bow, they're free to do so. That doesn't, however, stop me from making a comparison with the real life version or generally commenting on its design. That's all I've done in this case. Exaggerated movement and shape deformations do come into play, but seeing how the characters displayed a great deal of consistency in their body proportions during movement, even when attacking with their body parts, there is no reason to believe that the bow was undergoing a different treatment. Also, that toy bow is just that, a toy. It looks like a bow, but doesn't work like one, even though it can fire a projectile. It's akin to an air gun in that department, which can look like a specific firearm and fire a projectile, but it does so in a different way from the original.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 8, 2015 20:43:01 GMT -6
why would you assume the string lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest? Have fun with this."Dacron - (strength per strand = 22.5 kg (50 lb), stretch = 2.6%), a polyester material. Because of its durability and stretch, Dacron is commonly used on beginners' equipment, wooden bows, and older bows. The relatively high stretch causes less shock to the bow, which is an important consideration for wooden-handled recurves. Dacron strings are easy to maintain and can last several years." And here we have a string stretching double its size. What you have here is a stylized slingshot, not a bow. Call it a combination of the two if you want. We're done with this. As for the rest of the discussion, I've no desire to continue it as I grow weary of the snide remarks and lack of actual arguments. @rvcy; I know that your other question was serious, I just didn't bother replying because you strayed from the current discussion and I didn't want to increase the number of topics in the conversation. But alright, let us make this short. If the artist wants to call it a bow, they're free to do so. That doesn't, however, stop me from making a comparison with the real life version or generally commenting on its design. That's all I've done in this case. Exaggerated movement and shape deformations do come into play, but seeing how the characters displayed a great deal of consistency in their body proportions during movement, even when attacking with their body parts, there is no reason to believe that the bow was undergoing a different treatment. Also, that toy bow is just that, a toy. It looks like a bow, but doesn't work like one, even though it can fire a projectile. It's akin to an air gun in that department, which can look like a specific firearm and fire a projectile, but it does so in a different way from the original. I think it is apparent that my question was 100% relevant to what was being discussed. It certainly doesn't stop you from making the comparison but that was the whole point, we are calling it a bow because we believe that was the artist's intent regardless of whether it would work in the real world or not. The rpg in Castlevania doesn't destroy walls but we still call it an rpg. I could go on and on but it would be pointless. About the toy, it does work like a bow as per your definition unless you are now saying it has to do bodily harm. Although according to the Michael Jackson looking fellow in the Robin Hood outfit it can cause bodily harm and should not be pointed at people. lol Back on topic, I am interested in seeing more of this game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 20:46:19 GMT -6
About the toy, it does work like a bow as per your definition unless you are now saying it has to do bodily harm. Oh wow. I don't even want to guess where you drew this one from. EDIT: Fair warning, I'll be off for a day or two, so don't expect a quick response if you decide to reply.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 8, 2015 20:57:23 GMT -6
A) It's clearly a bow. Are you really trying to argue it isn't a bow? I know how bows work and what they look like. There is a huge variation in how bows are constructed in real life and an even bigger variation in fantasy (video games) where you can take designs that wouldn't be feasible in real life and make them work. You apparently have no idea, hence why I asked you to google it. "A bow is a flexible arc which shoots aerodynamic projectiles called arrows. A string joins the two ends of the bow and when the string is drawn back, the ends of the bow are flexed. When the string is released, the potential energy of the flexed stick is transformed into the velocity of the arrow. Archery is the art or sport of shooting arrow from bows."
Now, again, look at the length of the "bow" and look at the length of the string here. Notice the difference in length even if you consider the "bow" to be flexed and try to straighten it up. The string is at least twice the length of the "bow" section where it connects. Do you still not see the issue? Will you attempt to argue that the string is permanently loose on this thing? Because that won't turn it into a bow. This thing likely has some sort of spring/wind-up mechanism, as the string is obviously stored in/on at least one of those spools (you can clearly see it on the lower one) and when you let go of it it draws back and propels the arrow. I won't touch on any of the other parts of your post as this one alone gives me enough of a headache and I have no interest in discussing those until this one is cleared up. It was from here fyi, but we should really stop, like we said. I'm just banning myself from this thread as everything I wanted to say is here already. If you need any clarification just reread my posts, the answer is there I'm sure. If something is really bugging you though you can pm me.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 9, 2015 7:11:52 GMT -6
Yep. Why didn't you guys jump on me when I said it? lol Sorry I must have missed your post. *Jumps on purifyweirdsoul*  I dunno, asking for something to be "more generic" has to be one of the more disheartening & depressing things you can ask of a creative endeavor. Personal preferences and all that but all I can do is  That's even putting aside that "anime artstyle" can mean a wide range of things. I've seen way too many Steam or KS games try for that "look at how stereotypically anime we are!" and my eyes couldn't roll in their sockets any faster. Even though the art for Castlevania games like Dawn of Sorrow & Portrait of Ruin and the games Kojima did art for SOTN, Aria of Sorrow, etc. or the art done for Order of Eccelsia by Masaki Hirooka were all "anime styled/influenced", there is a reason (at least among the Western fandom) that the art of DoS/PoR are at best tolerated and at worst despised and Kojima's/Hirooka's art is lauded. I feel pretty confident in saying Bloodstained would have failed to garner quite as many backers if it looked like DoS or PoR. Oh no, I'm not out to have everything generic anime. My point is similar to what was stated earlier, the issue is more that it's trying quite very hard to be not that. If you asked the guy what his art style is, I imagine he'd say something like "not anime", partly because Mike is the type of guy who would say/do something like this lol. There's being different, which is cool, but this comes off as sprinting desperately in the other direction almost like it's out of spite. BECAUSE THEY CAN. Sure, it might seem really weird to you, but you're a weeaboo for thinking so. F off, waifu nerds. "So the main character is a girl, and she's of color. Wait! Native tribe girl, even. Who's done that? With an axe. No girls use axes, right?" That's kind of how I see it in my head, lol. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops and I will donate to it because the concept alone is amazing. I haven't had a chance to watch that gameplay video yet, either. I hope it's more traditional VP than Exist Archive, which looks too very generic 3D. Here's a generic smiley.  Generic generic generic. This conversation reminds me I need to pick up my reflux medicine. tl;dr - I need anime injected directly into my veins every day. 
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Post by crocodile on Sept 9, 2015 11:13:16 GMT -6
why would you assume the string lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest? Have fun with this."Dacron - (strength per strand = 22.5 kg (50 lb), stretch = 2.6%), a polyester material. Because of its durability and stretch, Dacron is commonly used on beginners' equipment, wooden bows, and older bows. The relatively high stretch causes less shock to the bow, which is an important consideration for wooden-handled recurves. Dacron strings are easy to maintain and can last several years." And here we have a string stretching double its size. What you have here is a stylized slingshot, not a bow. Call it a combination of the two if you want. We're done with this. As for the rest of the discussion, I've no desire to continue it as I grow weary of the snide remarks and lack of actual arguments. A) There is a difference between a drawstring that lengthens because more is added from some sort of wind-up mechanism and internal/external spool and a string that lengthens because it is elastic and is placed under increased tension. The later is how all bow strings work to some degree, you mentioning lengthening as part of a counterargument against me only makes sense if you are still operating under your wind-up (or something similar) hypothesis. That is what I mean by "how can you tell it lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest" as in "how can you tell its not just stretching as all bow strings do to some degree". If the bow string WAS at maximum tension at rest, any additional tension would cause it to break not stretch. B) My argument has been very consistent. The character is an archer who uses arrows with a weapon that looks and acts like a bow in every reasonable respect. If you want to say that the physics don't match up 100% (string stretches too much, bow doesn't flex enough) sure that's fine but that doesn't change what the intention of the design is or what weapon type this is within the context of this game. This is more a bow than say a lightsaber is actually a saber (or something workable under current physics) and of all the issues people have had with Star Wars over the years, the name and the workings of lightsaber have to be near the bottom. By your criteria, a large number of fantasy weapons, because they don't follow their clear and obvious inspirations with 100% realistic accuracy, would some how be discounted and I don't think you'll find many who subscribe to that perspective. Hence why I think your perspective/critique is alien - because weapons in fantasy/videogames rarely follow real world physics with complete accuracy and the vast majority of people as designers or players honestly don't care. Sorry I must have missed your post. *Jumps on purifyweirdsoul*  I dunno, asking for something to be "more generic" has to be one of the more disheartening & depressing things you can ask of a creative endeavor. Personal preferences and all that but all I can do is  That's even putting aside that "anime artstyle" can mean a wide range of things. I've seen way too many Steam or KS games try for that "look at how stereotypically anime we are!" and my eyes couldn't roll in their sockets any faster. Even though the art for Castlevania games like Dawn of Sorrow & Portrait of Ruin and the games Kojima did art for SOTN, Aria of Sorrow, etc. or the art done for Order of Eccelsia by Masaki Hirooka were all "anime styled/influenced", there is a reason (at least among the Western fandom) that the art of DoS/PoR are at best tolerated and at worst despised and Kojima's/Hirooka's art is lauded. I feel pretty confident in saying Bloodstained would have failed to garner quite as many backers if it looked like DoS or PoR. Oh no, I'm not out to have everything generic anime. My point is similar to what was stated earlier, the issue is more that it's trying quite very hard to be not that. If you asked the guy what his art style is, I imagine he'd say something like "not anime", partly because Mike is the type of guy who would say/do something like this lol. There's being different, which is cool, but this comes off as sprinting desperately in the other direction almost like it's out of spite. BECAUSE THEY CAN. Sure, it might seem really weird to you, but you're a weeaboo for thinking so. F off, waifu nerds. "So the main character is a girl, and she's of color. Wait! Native tribe girl, even. Who's done that? With an axe. No girls use axes, right?" That's kind of how I see it in my head, lol. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops and I will donate to it because the concept alone is amazing. I haven't had a chance to watch that gameplay video yet, either. I hope it's more traditional VP than Exist Archive, which looks too very generic 3D. Here's a generic smiley.  Generic generic generic. This conversation reminds me I need to pick up my reflux medicine. tl;dr - I need anime injected directly into my veins every day.  Just to be clear, Mike isn't an artist, he's a programmer. It would be people like Alex Ahad, Mariel Cartwright, Johnathan Kim, etc. that would be responsible for the art direction of any of Lab Zero's games. It's all a team effort of course but Mike can't draw for shit As for the impetus for the creative direction of this game, it ca be found here (o_8 is Alex Ahad). I guess some might describe that as try hard (a terrible position in this circumstance if you think about it to its logical conclusion IMO), I just call it commendable and a good idea. As I've said before, I've already straight up learned some new shit following this game. I think that's super cool 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 0:20:06 GMT -6
It was from here fyi, but we should really stop, like we said. I'm just banning myself from this thread as everything I wanted to say is here already. If you need any clarification just reread my posts, the answer is there I'm sure. If something is really bugging you though you can pm me. Maybe you should reread the bolded segment. A) There is a difference between a drawstring that lengthens because more is added from some sort of wind-up mechanism and internal/external spool and a string that lengthens because it is elastic and is placed under increased tension. The later is how all bow strings work to some degree, you mentioning lengthening as part of a counterargument against me only makes sense if you are still operating under your wind-up (or something similar) hypothesis. That is what I mean by "how can you tell it lengthens as if the bowstring was at maximum tension at rest" as in "how can you tell its not just stretching as all bow strings do to some degree". If the bow string WAS at maximum tension at rest, any additional tension would cause it to break not stretch. ...etc. I link you to an article explaining what a bow string is and its desired properties, define the weapon in question and in the same post tell rvmcy why the string expanding to twice its size can't be an artistic exaggeration. Your response to all of this? Ignoring all the presented facts and arguments which serve to define what a bow, bow string and the characters weapon is in favor of a sad attempt at dismissing the entire post as an improper counterargument, while I was, in fact, teaching you what a bow string is in that post, as you have the wrong idea as how much a bow string should lengthen. Good job.
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