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Post by LordKaiser on Jul 15, 2019 18:26:46 GMT -6
Free for backers only, the rest should pay.
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Post by gradius on Jul 15, 2019 19:26:35 GMT -6
Although i usually hate paid for cosmetics... In games like the Witcher 3, in which they come for free, i love them! And in games like Grim Dawn, which are super great fun to play, i bought cosmetics, to show my appreciation (and enjoy the looks).
Bloodstained here, even though the launch was awkward and it still has lots of content to come on the go, is certainly of masterpiece caliber; i really love it. If the price is tempting and the work done interesting and nicely done, then sure, why not?
P.S. Comment above: I totally agree with it!
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 15, 2019 19:29:59 GMT -6
I have no problem with it if the price is reasonable for the content provided. If it's merely cosmetic,* and if the items are added directly to the player's inventory, then I'd want it to definitely be on the lower end of the given pricing scale: maybe $3 at the very most. And even then, I'd say that if there's more than $20 total in cosmetic DLC, then it's probably not a great look, though it's not like there aren't well loved games that get away with more(e.g. pretty much anything Paradox makes). Maybe a touch more if they are added to the game as treasure found through exploration or defeating new enemies, but at that point, I'd question if there might be a better use for their time since more than just the art team would be needed for that.
What I really don't want to see is an amount of cosmetic DLC rivaling or exceeding the base cost of the game to purchase. At the very most, I would say that the cost of smaller DLC, cosmetic or otherwise, should ideally never total in at more than half the cost of the game + any full content expansions that might be made available for purchase after the stretch goal content is completed. To me, that is about where the boundary between increasing revenue to fund future games and outright milking lies.
I think there needs to be some care taken here in terms of image. I'd like to think that the game has done well enough that ArtPlay can fund their next game without a need to resort to Kickstarter again. But in the case that assistance is needed, good will from how purchasers of this game were treated is going to be what gets the job done. You can already pretty much count Mac and Linux users out altogether, and even if efforts to optimize and improve go fantastically, some Switch gamers are going to be hard to bring on board as well. So for the remaining customers, I think that ArtPlay and 505 should always be thinking "how will this be perceived" not just on what actions they take, but the manner in which they are executed. Paid DLC itself isn't a dealbreaker for most, but no one wants to feel like cash cow.
So I say go for it, but proceed with caution.
* normally I'd be against any non-cosmetic DLC altogether, but the casual disdain this game (and most of Iga's others) has towards balanced equipment makes me feel this could be an exception as long as the effects weren't clearly superior to what was available in the base game. Still, cosmetic is my preference for this sort of thing by far.
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Post by Cale on Jul 15, 2019 20:00:21 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard Brent, I wholeheartedly hope that you're right and I won't argue against what you said. That's not what I'm here for. I have said what I needed to say and will leave it at that. I'm still not happy about the choice and about how and when they communicated it but I can appreciate your viewpoint of hoping for more RotN content than originally promised even if I personally would have preferred it if they wrapped it up after completing the stretch goals so they could start making that sequel ^^ I learned a while ago that discussion here about ethics, or even respect to the backers goes out the window as soon as money is brought up. It's well you have said your peace, and even better that you realize that you will only be met with criticism in the face of the all-mighty dollar. The game still isn't complete and they are already asking for more money through micro-transactions. They could have had the decency to at least wait until the game was released in all regions and the promised content that hasn't been axed was released. But i digress, we have seen time and again what surveys result in. Having an opinion on any matter seems fruitless, and even worse, any disagreement will be either met with silence or condescending convincing that we are getting a valuable deal.
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Post by Rixuel on Jul 15, 2019 20:05:32 GMT -6
Players: Free cosmetic Devs: Paid cosmetic
Is it bad if there are free and paid cosmetics?
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Post by iggyg85 on Jul 15, 2019 21:00:05 GMT -6
I would prefer that backers of at least $60+ get a free season pass for any DLC like this. This should especially ring true with the retail release being what like $40? Sure we get Iga’s backpack paid DLC free because it was initially a backer exclusive freebie that we majority voted to share as paid to others. In addition, I think they should add a cheat chest to that season pass (if not free) which unlocks all those bonus weapons for us completionists.
Overall, I voted no for this poll, but I would probably buy it anyway.
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Post by mourningxsun on Jul 15, 2019 21:45:01 GMT -6
It's painfully obvious that there's some content that was left on the cutting room floor. Areas/enemies/etc.
I'm of the mind that most of the enemies dug up in datamines will probably be used for alt modes in the future.
If not though, and if paid DLC must be a thing, I'd rather just see some cut areas and enemies get brought back in. I couldn't care less about just buying random items. The whole point of the game is exploring and finding new items. Just buying some kills the entire concept of the game.
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Post by DSLevantine on Jul 15, 2019 22:11:32 GMT -6
The people who are working on the Switch version bugs/fixes aren't doing much/anything with creating assets/graphics. This is for the future and isn't taking away from that effort, which is what the teams are focused on right now (current release improvements). Microtransactions are when the game asks or forces you to buy something to get you through the game or that allows you access to in-game currency via your real $. Cosmetics/skins don't fall under that. "Pay to win" also isn't much of a factor that would apply to a game like this. I'm all for it because I want to see some of these things, but also because I like supporting them and trust them with the money to do the right things with it. The track record has been clearly positive with that so far (to me/my experience, I know this is not the case with everyone). I can kind of see the completionist argument, but to say that they're "only selling it to milk completionists" is going a bit far. I don't think it would bump up the % possible and be counted as extra, such as with the code items. You can't have all possible color/hair choices of Miriam at all times, either, and that's fine too. "If it exists, I must have it", is a matter of being OCD and not something the game/content delivery model should be faulted for, imo, when it doesn't count against/for your official completion. Wonder how many DOA players were able to survive being like that heh. Not all things are for all people, and if this isn't for you, I think it should be ignored while other people can consume it and fund more (free) Bloodstained. I think the game is selling incredibly, but it's also going to be costly still to make free DLC for the next x amount of time that they're planning to, and then however long it takes for the sequel. ArtPlay specifically doesn't have any cash flow besides Bloodstained - this is it, they don't have money funneling in from other projects and things that they've done as if they're all big name Konami employees still, on a set and guaranteed payroll because they're so big and can be put on other things whenever. There are no other things. Anyway, the main idea here, as the survey says, is to have folks pay for non-essential things to make essential things free (in addition to the already-promised 13 free DLCs). I think people are missing this, because I think I even did or read over that the first time? haha. I was at work and wanted to click my outfits, leave me alone Now you are talking like EA.. it's not loot boxes, it's surprise mechanics. Hell no, do not turn bloodstained into cashcow. the survey is rigged. There is no option to say no to the DLC.
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Post by mobilevil on Jul 16, 2019 3:11:11 GMT -6
Please fix bugs and performance issues before talking about DLC. The game is not complex at all.
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Post by aceearly1993 on Jul 16, 2019 3:47:57 GMT -6
It's painfully obvious that there's some content that was left on the cutting room floor. Areas/enemies/etc. I'm of the mind that most of the enemies dug up in datamines will probably be used for alt modes in the future. If not though, and if paid DLC must be a thing, I'd rather just see some cut areas and enemies get brought back in. I couldn't care less about just buying random items. The whole point of the game is exploring and finding new items. Just buying some kills the entire concept of the game. Totally agreed. If the extra paid DLC (s) must be a thing, I'd rather pay for a full scale complete Artwork Collection which covers rendered 3-d map of every single area, (think of the maps at some old strategy guides, old video game magazines, etc.) and also archives all kinds of key decision they made, how the production team had to overcome such tough days during the early stages of development, how to render the 3-D area to the future-possible strategy guides, and other dogs n' cats. Extra Cosmetic DLC (s) are something that shouldn't be considered if the full game content is yet to be completed. Or such thing shouldn't even existed at the first place for a game produced by IGA's team.
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Brainiac
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Post by Brainiac on Jul 16, 2019 7:17:44 GMT -6
Now you are talking like EA.. it's not loot boxes, it's surprise mechanics.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 16, 2019 8:26:09 GMT -6
Every game with DLC isn't EA lol
And this "no we should get everything free", no you shouldn't. Please be realistic.
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Post by ReySol on Jul 16, 2019 10:18:19 GMT -6
I couldn’t care less for the cosmetic DLCs, either free or paid. I just want the Switch version to be fixed and then let the team finish the DLCs they have to do. And then begin work on Bloodstained 2.
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Post by dareka on Jul 16, 2019 10:32:30 GMT -6
IMHO, here is where consumers need to understand that everyone either works at a business or for a business, or for people who work at a business.
As such, they should be able to understand the following:
1. Every business needs to make money. That does not make them greedy. It's what puts bread on the table and, if things go well, maybe a nice family vacation. Yes, people at the top tend to be greedy at many businesses, but that doesn't mean the company doesn't need to do well for everyone else to share in the breadcrumbs.
2. Adding cosmetic items doesn't come for free. You need to pay the artists who work on them. Because they need to put bread on the table, and, if things go well, maybe save enough for a nice family vacation. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone paid for it.
3. If you don't want to pay for cosmetic DLC, don't buy it. It's cosmetic - it doesn't affect the gameplay at all. If you feel it would add something to your play experience, because the visuals are part of it, then you need to pay for that added value because 1 and 2.
I'm all for paid DLC that doesn't affect gameplay; I'm decidedly against DLC that does, and also against RNG based exploitation such as loot boxes.
The thing with paid cosmetic DLC is that if you don't like it you don't have to buy it. I want me some Succubus, for example (and least I think I do - will have to wait and see the design), but I couldn't care less for any maid or schoolgirl outfit. Some people, though, are really into those; so let them buy them, and I'll buy the Succubus outfit, and everyone's happy.
If you don't want to feel you were denied items that cost money to make, pay for them. It's that simple.
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Post by dareka on Jul 16, 2019 10:33:43 GMT -6
I couldn’t care less for the cosmetic DLCs, either free or paid. I just want the Switch version to be fixed and then let the team finish the DLCs they have to do. And then begin work on Bloodstained 2. They're not taking resources from the Switch to make cosmetic DLC. The Switch requires programmers, the DLC requires artists. There's little to no overlap.
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Post by Squirrel Taskmaster on Jul 16, 2019 12:53:18 GMT -6
This is sort of off on a tangent, but the survey is unusable by anyone that doesn't have a google account for security/privacy reasons.
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Post by Aztec on Jul 16, 2019 15:44:27 GMT -6
I'm all for paid cosmetic DLC. The resources spent on it would be minimal but the money from sales would help funding for a sequel, which would be useful for us, especially if we don't want to deal with another Kickstarter. Exactly. For me complaining about a game getting paid cosmetic DLC after launch is peak gamer entitlement. ArtPlay and 505 are a company and they want to maximize revenue, so what? As long as they don’t abuse the costumers with bullshit like loot boxes or micro transactions (like premium currency) I’m all for it. Look, I want this game to do well and be able to fund a sequel. They’ve already confirmed they wouldn’t be recurring to Kickstarter again so there’s that. The resources and time to make these should not impede a team from continue to progress on this game’s post launch content and/or sequel. They’re just new skins, calm down! You’re still getting a ton of very significative free DLCs down the road, let them have these. Free for backers only, the rest should pay. Like I said; peak gamer entitlement.
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Post by Aztec on Jul 16, 2019 15:50:46 GMT -6
This is sort of off on a tangent, but the survey is unusable by anyone that doesn't have a google account for security/privacy reasons. People do complain about everything huh? I could give someone on the Internet a bag of gold and they’d manage to whine about how heavy the bag is. It takes 5 minutes tops to make a new and very anonymous throwaway Google account, jfc. It’s 2019, who still doesn’t have a Google account anyway? If you’re internet savvy enough to kickstart the spiritual sequel of a niche game from the 90s and then sign up AND comment on a videogame forum about said nich game then chances are you have a Google account at this point or know how to safely and quickly make a new one to use.
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on Jul 16, 2019 18:37:34 GMT -6
I'm guessing this is a case of simply not reading the room? I answered that survey honestly since they didn't give me the option to say NO. I decided to compromise hoping they meant well after the expansions. I do want some more cosmetics at some point...but don't ask me now and especially not when their game across the platforms needs patches and those expansions first. Switch owners and Xbox owners seem to be suffering the most. I wish them luck regardless.
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Post by DSLevantine on Jul 16, 2019 19:04:03 GMT -6
Asking for more money before fixing the mess, that's developer entitlement.
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