Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 21, 2019 20:34:25 GMT -6
I reached level 99! A video of Pure Miriam fighting the final boss: Boss Rush Mode:
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on Jun 21, 2019 22:37:47 GMT -6
The ending dialogue with Dominique is kind of awkward when I haven't sold her any shards the whole game. Would have been interesting to change it up a bit based on player action. Myself and another user here do not like how they handled her, Alfred, and Zangetsu at all. These were all good characters until the game decided to
SPOILERS
Give them the idiot ball, and also turn Dominique evil at the last moment. I have a theory: I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought those in-game readable text were heavily implying that Johannes was evil and those were possibly his. I've even read on here before the game came out that some people figured his design gave it away.(Weirdly enough, I thought this about both him AND Dominique)
Something tells me that they were setting this up, but then changed their minds later on in development. As a result, the texts now feel like further insight into Alfred from some stranger's perspective. Completely impersonal and somewhat detached all things considered since not a single text(that I've found at least and I've gotten 99%+ map) has mentioned Dom in any capacity. Just the church...and barely at that. That sort of thing has been done in games like Resident Evil and such. However, in a compact game like this that already feels underwritten, we're going to run into a bigger problem going this route. Hence we get "idiot balls" and not-quite exposition dumps. Two scenes...all Dom got was two scenes where she could explore villainy. One with Alfred angry about her parents and another where she's bragging about power. She has more screentime than Gebel...and yet feels like a complete afterthought.
3 red herrings by my count: Gebel Alfred Johannes(considering the in-game reads and conversations after crafting)
That's not a good way to set up a twist.
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 21, 2019 23:08:05 GMT -6
I think this is the highest damage possible... Setup: Full screen nuke with infinite MP EDIT: No no, wait! THIS is the highest damage possible. Required shards Also taking advantage of the enemy's elemental weakness to bring up the damage.
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dareka
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Post by dareka on Jun 22, 2019 1:25:09 GMT -6
Ok, I just have to post about it now, so if you have not completed the game, do not read the spoiler box below. I'm so sad they did my girl Domique like that. I really liked her character, and even shipped her with Miriam, and this is what they do!? A revenge story over what happened to her parents is actually a really good hook, and made me care about her in the story, imagining the kind of pain she must have went through. But then they just made her all for the evulz at the end. They really could have played up the tragedy of her loss and how it effected her for all those years, especially when she protects the little girl at the start of the game. As it stands, Miriam seems less hurt and more "I'mma kill the bitch!" instead more of a "I am sorry what happened to you, but you leave me no choice." Miriam did not even seem all that broke up over it, an issue with the writing, perhaps? I don't expect mgs levels of melodrama, but do feel there should have been a little more here. And at the risk of starting a religious debate, which I really do not want to, you have to figure that when Dom showed her true colors, she denied God, sided with the demons of hell, and when she died, she is now in hell for an eternity. That sucks!!!!!! Damn it, I really liked this character, and you tear my heart out like this??? I guess I got that bittersweet ending I mentioned in a topic I made a week or two ago, just not in the way I imagined it. I'll do a longer post or maybe an external article on this later, but ... ... the Japanese perspective on God and Religion are so different from what you'll find in the West that IGA probably wouldn't even understand what you're talking about. If Dominique's views on God and hell were even remotely western she wouldn't have said what she says at the end. The character is 100% Japanese. I'm not saying she wouldn't have turned "evil" if her mindset were Western, I just mean she'd look at her situation in a completely different way... I really have to elaborate, as this topic could easily make for a graduate thesis on eastern studies ... I promise I'll post the full explanation of what I'm trying to say as soon as the spoiler embargo's over.
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Post by lai on Jun 22, 2019 1:55:36 GMT -6
After 40 hours of playtime and getting 100% on normal I'm gonna gush about this game. StoryLike others have said here the Dom reveal feels a bit clumsily done, I saw it coming when you see her in the lab after the train segment it. The whole execution just feels off in a way I can't put my finger on. Although it was really fun listening her monologue at the end so I'd say it was worth it. As for Anne, poor little girl is irrelevant for the entire game. I think if she wasn't mentioned in the initial Kickstarter she wouldn't be in the game at all. Maybe there was something for her early on that got scrapped but right now she's kinda just there.
Gebel being controlled kinda kills his agency as a villain but then again he isn't supposed to be one and his role towards the end kinda reminds me of Albus at the end of OOE's first half. Bael may as well be a giant space flea for all of his story significance so idk what else to say. Just really meh.
I actually like how they handled Alfred aka basically Albus from OOE if he was your granddad instead of your brother. Everything Alfred does makes sense when you learn what he's really trying to do while being threatening if you don't. Not to mention THE BOOK. Not bad at all.
Overall, not bad, not really all that great, two Albus types for one game, but then again that's not why we're here. Gameplay Bloodstained is definitely Sorrow/SOTN mix with the scale of the latter and the combat of the former. In combat I almost exclusively used whips due to their range, damage, and the fact you can cancel all of the lag with a landing made it really rewarding to use them even if all the special moves where given to the other weapons. I never found myself using shards much outside of trying to DPS down bosses. That is until I got Tepis Rozain aka why you don't make lasers do damage in bursts, don't bother keeping it sustained on a target just swing the thing around in a circle like a giant club and barely burn any mp. Also luck is kinda the king stat if you are good enough at the combat to not care about the statistical disadvantage. By investing in luck you get more money and drops which translate into more power via crafting rather than levels which incentivizes skilled play while still leaving the option of just out-grinding bosses on the table. Shame that it doesn't use OOE's glorious glyph system but, Each weapon type suits a particular playstyle and although I settled on whips all weapon types are valid options unless you are too poor to use guns. Difficulty-wise I would say Bloodstained is around Aria levels, you can't turn off your brain half-way through like in SOTN but the game won't leave you bloody on the curb like OOE. I would have liked it harder but then again huge OOE fan here so I'm probably just biased.
The game has a linear order that you must go through with the only real divergent point being going for Gebel or 8-bit nightmare at any point after killing Bloodless. The castle is huge but the warp points are in fairly convenient spots and once I learned out to properly chain backlashes (use crouch) exploration became much more manageable. There are only 2 instances where I actually got stuck. The first was I couldn't figure out what to use to initially swim underwater, despite the description of the water jet shard blatantly saying it could be used for swimming. I actually don't have an issue with this, it is kinda my fault for not reading the shard descriptions and it is a clever use of game mechanics ala getting extra height with a divekick or distance with the triple kick.
However the second instance is something that isn't hinted at in the game whatsoever, using invert at the bottom of the Valac tower..... Ok how was I supposed to know a chest was there infact I already found something there, the valkyrie dress, so I assumed that was it. I saw the chest but the bit of jutting out tower doesn't exactly scream "use invert at the bottom." It doesn't help that if you don't notice either chest the only hint you get is empty spots on your map, that can be filled out without invert if you know how (or maybe I'm misrepresenting that last point). They could have made it so that the aegis chest is given a marker when you first enter the Valac fight, telling people to return here at some point, but that may just frustrate players as they return to the tower only to find nothing.
BUT outside of those two issues Bloodstained is a never-ending cycle of combat, platforming, and satisfaction. Finding a new area or exploring a new space with a new ability is always a blast and fighting enemies never really gets boring until you start doing late-game grinding. Also you get to keep the Accelerator Shard in new game+ which makes repeat playthroughs less of a retread and more like a poorly done speedrun. Drop rates, if you build for luck can't speak for other builds, are pretty fair and if you grind for an item you will typically get it sooner rather than later. BossesMuch to my pleasure the medal system from OOE has returned! So being the absolute idiot genius I am, I decided that for my first run I would get all medals. Oh boy was that fun, but I managed to do it.
For the most part the bosses range from meh to holyshitthisisawsome. There's not any particularly bad bosses and at worst they are forgettable but there are a few highs. Zangetsu proves once again that the other playable character will give among the best bossfights in a metroidvania. Alfred and Valac in excellent uses of the 2.5D in a boss fight with their rotating arenas although Alfred's is one that could only work in 2.5D turning a small room into what is effectively an endless corridor. The Doppleganger gives lightning quick bouts of trading blows and avoiding specials. Although it was so fast I had to switch off my tried and true whip for the Doppleganger and just shoot it to death and it was still a hard fight. Unfortunately, I accidentally grinded too much for Gremory, Dominique, and Bael to be any real challenge, even when going for no it, although that's what I get for doing IGA and OD first, speaking of IGA and OD.
However the real star bosses here are the post game ones. IGA is lightning fast, hits like a trick and his attacks all hit a wide area, but all of his attacks clear tells if that helps at all. Even if you know all of his tells and how to dodge his attacks he is still a hard boss to even beat since chances are a slip up will happen and the dodge windows for some of his attacks are really tight but consistent. But once you know his moves this fight is an absolute blast, just on the line of feeling in control and descending into absolute chaos in a lightning fast challenge. OD, who can be fought at any time in the glacial tomb as long as you have the tome of conquest checked out, is much slower but many of his tells overlap and unless you know where to go, his timestop is near-guaranteed to hit you. Thankfully almost all of his attacks don't hit above or behind him so that's how you avoid him, just keep moving when he vanishes and watch his cape. Still you have to be alert because sometimes he'll just teleport right next to you so using the accelerator shard is worthwhile even in the tiny room you fight him in.
Here is my tier list for Bloodstained bosses from top to bottom in my no-hit journey:
Post-game Vamps: IGA OD
Zangetsu: Zangetsu 2 Zangetsu 1
Hope you have a strong controller:
Doppleganger
Dominque
Ring around the Rosie:
Alfred
"I have one attack that will fuck you up but will be easy to dodge otherwise.": Bloodless Valac Gremory
Easy to no-hit: Vepar Clockwork Gebel Valefar
Hope you like redoing entire segments: Bael 8-Bit Overlord Glutton Train/10 reasons why Zangetsu is the GOAT
I shouldn't have done the post-game content first: Gremory Dominque Bael
I legit forgot about them until I made this list which means they were pretty easy to no-hit: Clockwork Abyss Dragon thing, idk what the name is Andrealphus Bathin Orobas
And because I'm a show-off here is me beating the two post-game bosses no hit, enjoy. OD
IGA
Overall, I'd say that this is definitely a contender for my favorite game of 2019, alongside DMC5, and easily my number 2 IGA metroidvania (OOE is my number 1 and favorite game overall, Aria and SOTN are now tied for 3rd) but even then it is very close to either tying or just straight up being my favorite IGAvania
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Arcueid Brunestud
True Ancestor
Ancient Legion
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 22, 2019 2:02:18 GMT -6
At last I have 100% of everything.
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Post by EBBenjy on Jun 22, 2019 5:48:41 GMT -6
After 40 hours of playtime and getting 100% on normal I'm gonna gush about this game. Your experience is somewhat similar to mine. At the very beginning of the game, after I killed Vepar, I stopped for a second and thought, "I wonder if this game has the boss medals". So I restarted and sure enough, it did. And since I grabbed one of them, I couldn't just sit back and not go for the rest of them, right? That one moment of curiosity led to me having to start and restart every boss battle multiple times throughout the entire game. It was worth it though. I also got stuck at two key moments involving the Aqua Stream shard and the Aegis Plate. I really think the Aegis Plate's chest should be marked on the map. And Dominique or Johannes should mention something about using a shard to swim. It's just too much to ask for a player who isn't on the right train of thought already, since they may no even know the correct way forward is available yet. I also found Tis Rozaïn to be extremely useful and generally better than most other Directional shards . I think Miriam's voice clip is going to be permanently etched into my brain because she has to shout it every time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 10:05:49 GMT -6
Ok, I just have to post about it now, so if you have not completed the game, do not read the spoiler box below. I'm so sad they did my girl Domique like that. I really liked her character, and even shipped her with Miriam, and this is what they do!? A revenge story over what happened to her parents is actually a really good hook, and made me care about her in the story, imagining the kind of pain she must have went through. But then they just made her all for the evulz at the end. They really could have played up the tragedy of her loss and how it effected her for all those years, especially when she protects the little girl at the start of the game. As it stands, Miriam seems less hurt and more "I'mma kill the bitch!" instead more of a "I am sorry what happened to you, but you leave me no choice." Miriam did not even seem all that broke up over it, an issue with the writing, perhaps? I don't expect mgs levels of melodrama, but do feel there should have been a little more here. And at the risk of starting a religious debate, which I really do not want to, you have to figure that when Dom showed her true colors, she denied God, sided with the demons of hell, and when she died, she is now in hell for an eternity. That sucks!!!!!! Damn it, I really liked this character, and you tear my heart out like this??? I guess I got that bittersweet ending I mentioned in a topic I made a week or two ago, just not in the way I imagined it. I'll do a longer post or maybe an external article on this later, but ... ... the Japanese perspective on God and Religion are so different from what you'll find in the West that IGA probably wouldn't even understand what you're talking about. If Dominique's views on God and hell were even remotely western she wouldn't have said what she says at the end. The character is 100% Japanese. I'm not saying she wouldn't have turned "evil" if her mindset were Western, I just mean she'd look at her situation in a completely different way... I really have to elaborate, as this topic could easily make for a graduate thesis on eastern studies ... I promise I'll post the full explanation of what I'm trying to say as soon as the spoiler embargo's over.
I do not pretend to understand japanese game writers and how they write, but it seems really strange and confusing to me when all but one of the cast of characters in this game are european. Even if the majority of japanese are not christian, is it really that hard to research how people would act if they were, before writing them? Dominique is english European, and was part of the roman catholic church and an excorsist,
SPOILERS
until something happened and she lost her faith to the point that she hated God and basicly switched sides.
It really does not seem like such a hard concept to understand, even if one is not religious. Religious people believe that if you reject God, you die in your sin and can't go to heaven.
Spoilers:
What Dom did was Take that to the extreme and pretty much become a Satanaist considering the Liber Logaeth's function. I have seen people in the past, not all of them white or black, who have switched from Christianity to Satanism, and Satanist's converting to Christianity.
Brandon Sanderson, an insanely popular fantasy novelist who is a Mormon, wrote a successful atheist character in the way of kings named Jasnah, and he made sure to research it before hand with actual atheists and he was praise for getting it right. Not sure why so many Japanese have an issue with it.
So many times in the games I enjoy most, they come down to "religious people bad, must be killed, and then we kill God also!"
It feels more like indoctrination at this point, same as when we say that churches and parents indoctrinate their children to belief or fear of God and Hell.
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dareka
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Post by dareka on Jun 22, 2019 11:41:00 GMT -6
@bloodymiri
I can see what you're getting at, but this is not something research alone can help with.
What people do is we filter all of our research through the lens of our worldview, which is shaped subconsciously by our environment.
I had realized the Japanese worldview on religion differed from ours after playing countless JRPGs, but I spent eight years living in Japan before I could articulate the how or why.
I'll start the write-up right away, and once I'm done I'll PM you (and anyone else who wants it) so you can read it before July 1st, when the spoiler embargo ends.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 15:18:54 GMT -6
@bloodymiri I can see what you're getting at, but this is not something research alone can help with. What people do is we filter all of our research through the lens of our worldview, which is shaped subconsciously by our environment. I had realized the Japanese worldview on religion differed from ours after playing countless JRPGs, but I spent eight years living in Japan before I could articulate the how or why. I'll start the write-up right away, and once I'm done I'll PM you (and anyone else who wants it) so you can read it before July 1st, when the spoiler embargo ends. We have been posting spoilers in this topic already though, right? isn't the embargo just for big named reviewers as a profession?
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dareka
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Post by dareka on Jun 22, 2019 15:31:06 GMT -6
@bloodymiri
I'll ask the mods once I'm done. I'd understood that all talk of spoilers would go on this thread, with spoiler tags, until July 1st, so that Switch players had time to finish the game. The little essay I'm working on would probably require its own thread, so I don't know if should create it until most of the community has the opportunity to read it and consider the content in the context of Bloodstained's plot and ending.
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seiya
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Post by seiya on Jun 22, 2019 15:42:45 GMT -6
@bloodymiri darekaHere comes Japan and its religions. There are two ways you can look at how their religious views came about, either by the past or the interactions with the Chinese religions. I will do the interactions very quickly here with a translated quote; one is born Shinto (shamanistic religion), live Confusion (a philosophy more than anything else), and die Buddhist (structured religion). Japan's religion starts pre-history. It is a shamanistic religion called Shinto. Which is also the only remaining large shamanistic religion in the world. I pretty much says that being born and living is the best parts of life. After you die, well, all death is bad. There are even rituals whose sole purpose is to remove the corruption of death or the curses of the dead from an area. Most large construction projects have a shinto priest come and bless the land before they start to avoid nature being mad or those who died there from jinxing the job. Matsuri, the yearly celebrations, are pretty much about doing the same for the area you live in to being health and happiness to all. Confusionism is living by the philosophy of those in charge are to be followed no matter what. It is VERY simplified, but the idea is there. If you ever hear about Japan being very hierarchical, this is the reason. About the same time Japan took up confusionism, they also imported Buddhism. Talking 700 - 1100 AD here. It is very hard to nail down the exact time due to the writing of the time. Buddhism is about removing the western concept of the ego, the sense of yourself and returning to where all "souls" come from. I "" the souls because the concept is different. Regardless, a spartan life is what it is all about. The meditation part is to try and suppress the self for the sake of reaching Nirvana. This all combine in Japan over time until religion doesnt exist. The matsuris are the same for them as the 4th of July is for America. They are a celebration of life and not religious for the masses at all. Confusion thoughts integrated into it quite nicely. Buddhism is how they deal with death at the end. They are all together and the same to Japanese. There are even some Shinto priests who are also the area's Buddhist priest. They are not different, they are all part of the same. And that is where Christianity has a problem there. Japanese who like it, also practice the Japanese religion because it is not a religion, it is life and death. Christianity is something else they mix into their life and death views. That is the hardest part to understand for the West. Religion is not a separate part of life and death, but entwined in it.
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Post by tav7623 on Jun 22, 2019 16:48:35 GMT -6
Quick question for those who have all the boss coins (I have a feeling there are a few of you out there already) do you get anything special (other than bragging rights ) for having all of them?
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 22, 2019 16:53:00 GMT -6
By Chinese Practice, if God did not deliver a prayer say within a year, it's perfectly acceptable for me to burn the bible even if I believe he exist. It's also quite possible that some form of grudge against Christianity and antagonize them, fully aware or not.
They should have demonstrated how Dominique was corrupted either by power, tragedy or curiosity. Gremory might have tempted her at some point but end up creating a powerful 'Dragon'. There should be some other npc from the church. The side quest should have more weight to them, even if they are just fetch quest. A small hint on how the regular npcs died, and over the course they should have clues on Dominique, and in the end possibly the ability to save everyone.
Alfred was portrayed very negatively. Your second encounter with him should have him explained to Miriam what the hell he is doing (as he bears no ill intention but was very desperate) and she really should not get involved in all the mess. Hell he should have been a supporting character and replace Miriam.
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Nezuto
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Post by Nezuto on Jun 22, 2019 17:02:52 GMT -6
So, since Totally Not Alucard can come back, after everything is said and done, does that count for Bloodless as well? It is stated that Totally Not Alucard returned to the library, because he's a vampire, meaning Miriam didn't or isn't capable of truly killing a vampire, yet. Shouldn't Bloodless fall under this category, as well? The only 2 vamps in the game, afaik and would be interesting to know what Bloodless is doing or where she sojourned to, after Miriam slapped the shit out of her.
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 22, 2019 17:09:33 GMT -6
I don't think Bloodless is a vampire at all. Her horns look quite eastern and so does her face. (both Dominique and Miriam look more European despite the style), but her manner and attire are that of a noble woman. Honestly she looks like a umbrella Yokai who somehow reached the Hell that the castle spawn from. Additionally we know demon have a different society as suggested by OD.
I feel really sorry for poor O.D. He just want his books back but you end up costing him the trouble to respawn.
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Post by yulia11 on Jun 22, 2019 17:14:21 GMT -6
Why is Usurper ending so short? Where is my evil Miriam?
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Post by Nezuto on Jun 22, 2019 17:14:55 GMT -6
So much for those spoiler tags and according to her entry in the bestiary, she is indeed a vampire.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 22, 2019 17:19:46 GMT -6
I think I will be the 3rd character in the game.
Yuss, heard it here first folks! I have a paypal account if anyone wanna donate. Lol.
Just kidding.
But spoilers or not, I had a few spoilers before entering and playing the game, and while it kinda "destroyed" the genuine surprises of those. I am a bit sad that at this day and era, so far, what everyone have been asking and telling on the spoiler channel of Discord is already within my grasp of understanding and have already been explored.
I fear this game wont be another SotN when it comes to secrets due to all this communication we have (which is really good actually, helping each other out). But the magic.. Hmm.
I hope to find secrets in the future. If not. Perhaps more can be added in patches?
Kudos to ArtPlay and 505 games not to spoil any of it, even though some old hints is crystal clear today. I remember Angel saying "BUNNY MIRIAM" and was joking about it when we played boardgames with him. And here we are.. Both bunny accessories and a Bunny Lady Outfit as a shard.
Geee.. How much I love this game!
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dareka
Dhampyr
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 345
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Dhampyr
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Mar 8, 2023 13:21:18 GMT -6
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dareka
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Jun 17, 2016 16:09:16 GMT -6
June 2016
dareka
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Post by dareka on Jun 22, 2019 17:20:02 GMT -6
seiya yulia11 C'mon, you guys are spoiling my essay for people In all seriousness, things are getting a little off topic. Back to the game itself, I've cleared it in normal mode, beaten IGA, and am now in the process of gathering shards and filling up my bestiary before starting on Hard mode. Initial thoughts: great game overall, but the pacing really dragged on some parts on my first play-through, because there were lots of sections where I couldn't figure out what to do and where to go next. Specifically: 1. Access to the train. 2. Access to the bell tower after getting the light beam. 3. Using bloodless' ability to open the entrance to the caverns. 4. Using the water stream to navigate the caverns before getting the shard that lets you sink in water.
Thankfully I did not get stuck with ... the "plot (aegis) armor" - I got it out of curiosity before I actually needed it to progress ... and I should mention that I eventually figured them all out, but still - I've never been so stuck so often in an IGAvania before. Now that I'm no longer stuck though, I'm having tons of fun, and I'm positively thrilled the game seems to be getting glowing reviews despite the day-one patch bug fiasco (I was on PC, so I wasn't of those who got stung). This video on YouTube is really good, I thought, and the comments section also illustrates how much goodwill the game's garnered. I was originally skeptical the game would ever see a sequel, but now I'm starting to think it's possible, even likely, and I know what I wanna see: a vanity/glamour system, and for every piece of gear to show up on Miriam's character model. It would really add a lot to the item collection element of the gameplay, and it might be feasible and cost-effective to implement if they prioritize it during development. Also, I'm tired of my Miriam showing up with those goofy glasses during the cut-scenes just because I like to see a Boss' HP when fighting them.
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