fatihg
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Post by fatihg on Jan 26, 2019 17:26:57 GMT -6
I have always had doubts and concerns regarding Bloodstained. But I am still excited for it.
I have voiced concerns about gameplay, graphics, sound design and what not multiple times. Because I could see and identify things that had seemingly easy ways to fix or improve them. However, seeing these íssues' early on has scaled back my expectation by allot. So only 2 things can happen for me. I get the quality I expected, which would be fine. Or they have improved upon them since the demo/beta, thus exceeding my expectations. Whatever the case im positively inclined.
When it comes to the development of the game so far, it is worrying to me that the project has been handled by multiple gamedev houses. Obviously Inti creaes, Dico, ArtPlay, WayForward etc. It is also concerning to me that Dico, really, is an outsourcing company. When you look at their website and the services they provide, thats super clear. From what i remember they only worked on casual and mobile games in the past. That they developed for themselves. (dont quote me on this) With that in mind it is clear that ArtPlay only really deals with high level stuff and it makes sense for them to jump around between development houses.
The fact that Unreal Engine adoption in Japan is fairly new as well (especially true when the kickstarter had just launched), can be cause for concern as well. However the tools doesn't make the artist.
When it comes to a `killer` cast, its always the producer, concept artist, musicians being listed. I think this is a flawed thing to get excited about, as almost all of those roles do not have a direct link with the game. I really hope that at some point in games, we get excited about game designers, art directors, lead modellers, lead animators, etc. instead. Not so much the people with `vision` but the people that do the hands on work. At the end of the day the `vision` people are just flavour, not substance.
The fact that they asked for input during the demos and betas makes me hopefull that they have the insight and knowledge to improve the game. Hopefully it truly was just a very early, unpolished, work in progress.
At the same time I feel like making a game with 'backer input' isnt the best way to go about it. Game development shouldn't be a democracy. And the more parties that get involved, the crazier this can get. I'd much rather have the development team work in relative isolation, than ask for feedback after every corner. Or for seemingly meaningless input (like what kind of graphical flair they should have for the game, 'the shader poll').
But that's just part of the territory when it comes to kickstarting games.
All in all, this feels like a fan project, a spiritual succesor, helmed by a few experienced folks (ArtPlay), that are working with inexperienced or uninspired people (Dico) that have to work with feedback and wishes from multiple parties (backers, IntiCreates, 505Games, Wayforward). Which could be a recipe for disaster. But if managed by ArtPlay adequately, could be a gem as well.
my 2 cents
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 26, 2019 18:18:29 GMT -6
fatihg don't forget that the director of the game is someone definitely experienced and publicly known, Shutaro Iida/Curry the Kid. He has been chief programmer or director as far back as AoS. Like you say, he's not talked about as much as the visual/audio artists, but that's as much our fault than anything. Your post itself doesn't mention him right? It doesn't help any that he's one of the shiest people on the project, but they did take him to E3 at least once. If someone missed his introduction, it's in the October 2015 update.
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RichterB
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Post by RichterB on Jan 26, 2019 21:18:04 GMT -6
Well, I think there are three main things that have prevented me from getting 100% hyped...though I am still looking forward to this game more than probably any other game right now. 1.) Since the Wii U version was cancelled, I was forced to change my pledge to the Switch version. But...I'm kind of waiting out the Switch. I have heard reports that it may get a revision, and the recent delay of Metroid Prime 4 makes me cautious of adopting too early. (I got a Wii U when it was originally stated that Breath of the Wild would be a Wii U exclusive; as we all know now, it wasn't.) And PS4 and other current-gen consoles are so close to the end of their life, I'm not eager to jump on board them, either. So, basically when the game comes out, I likely won't be playing it for a while because of the stance of cancelling the Wii U version. 2.) I have mixed feelings about IGA's tenure with Castlevania. I appreciate what he did, and he kept the series going, but whether it was because of his philosophies or Konami's meddling, the series got stuck in a rut. I don't think some of the action-platforming strengths of older Castlevania titles were ever fully utilized in his titles, and some of the more interesting, more ambitious and unique pre-IGA experiments like Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness were never properly followed up on and further evolved in 3D, which eventually brought us to the frustrating moment of desperation that became Lords of Shadow as IGA was sidelined. Because of this, I have to temper my expectations for Bloodstained, because I know it's likely not going to be the full evolution of Castlevania I wished for, yet I also know it's probably going to be the closest thing in this current environment of game development. If we're talking 2D or 2.5D (and not 3D), I think ideally I'd want a strong, refined mix of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (i.e. death pits, questing beyond simple transactions) and Symphony of the Night, with more variable geometry/destructible areas in the vein of Castlevania III and IV. To IGA's credit, I felt the enemy placement and jumping sections in the demo were better than most of the recent Metroidvania IGA titles I played. (Order of Ecclesia, for better or worse, slipped through the cracks for me after I was underwhelmed by Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin, so I can't speak for it too well one way or the other. I will get around to playing it, but I'm not in a hurry to do so right now.) And moreover, IGA and Co. actually had some pieces of the Bloodstained environment dynamically changing, like falling masts for platforms and falling chandeliers and lights turning on. And the rotating effect going into the castle warmed my heart. I hope those aren't just rare things. I would have loved the flooding on the ship to have sealed off an inconsequential area that you had to race through to prevent drowning. The questing being about defeating so many of one foe or getting a certain dropped item for cash aren't too encouraging, on the other hand. 3.) The overall art direction of Bloodstained hasn't had a strong focal-point identity for me so far from what we've seen in terms of characters and enemies. But then, we've only seen tiny slices. Because of this, I'm not sure I fully love the art direction. It's closer than most games to my ideal, though. And I must say, the fixes already made to character models are helping some. All of this said, I really enjoyed being able to participate in the demo, and how the devs have responded to the feedback. I think the game will be vastly improved from the process. If all the game is is the demo, then it'll probably be a 7/10-type game for me. But if it's refined from that point and the rest of the castle lives up to the hype, it should at least get into the 9/10-rating area for me. I went into extreme detail over what I thought was working and what could be helped here, if you're interested.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 27, 2019 17:49:07 GMT -6
I think ideally I'd want a strong, refined mix of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (i.e. death pits, questing beyond simple transactions) and Symphony of the Night This is basically to the letter how I often describe Order of Ecclesia to people. The CV2 elements are obvious, with the return of the town (as a hub) + villagers and their quests, and rather than the same standard Metroidvania formula, a stage select/world map setup and more of a focus on gameplay execution than powering up. The globe-trotting aspect felt similar to Bloodlines, too. The art style isn't Dawn/PoR "anime" and neither Kojima manga, but a new gothic style that suits it perfectly. What you want/are basically looking for in Ritual of the Night was already achieved in that game, if you ask me. RotN is a culmination/continuation of the things that game and some of its precedents got right, kind of melding all of its elements into one, though from how it sounds I think you'd like OoE better even than what RotN is shaping up to be. That said, I think many like yourself will find value in the extra modes. Regardless, like I said in the shoutbox, if Dawn/Portrait put you off, thinking you didn't want "more of the same", OoE is definitely different and matches much of what you say.
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RichterB
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Post by RichterB on Jan 27, 2019 18:26:46 GMT -6
I think ideally I'd want a strong, refined mix of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (i.e. death pits, questing beyond simple transactions) and Symphony of the Night This is basically to the letter how I often describe Order of Ecclesia to people. The CV2 elements are obvious, with the return of the town (as a hub) + villagers and their quests, and rather than the same standard Metroidvania formula, a stage select/world map setup and more of a focus on gameplay execution than powering up. The globe-trotting aspect felt similar to Bloodlines, too. The art style isn't Dawn/PoR "anime" and neither Kojima manga, but a new gothic style that suits it perfectly. What you want/are basically looking for in Ritual of the Night was already achieved in that game, if you ask me. RotN is a culmination/continuation of the things that game and some of its precedents got right, kind of melding all of its elements into one, though from how it sounds I think you'd like OoE better even than what RotN is shaping up to be. That said, I think many like yourself will find value in the extra modes. Regardless, like I said in the shoutbox, if Dawn/Portrait put you off, thinking you didn't want "more of the same", OoE is definitely different and matches much of what you say. Thanks, I saw your earlier ShoutBox comments and, as I said there, I have no doubt it would have been more my speed. I appreciate your insights. The visual aesthetics of OoE are basically exactly what I'd want. But I think there's still a bit of misunderstanding on one point. Because of how OoE structures its levels, it (and PoR before it, really) should have been able to include consequential, no-return segments like this in between their exploration:
(see 6:52 through 8:53 if time stamp on link below fails; and this video had commentary, but oh well)
As OoE is, aside from the town/level select, I think fundamentally it'll still be more in the range of Circle of the Moon in how it mixes the old and the new. A very good start, but not the end result I wished for. In the most basic sense, you can't fall off the map, because the map, whether its the main castle or the outside levels, is a locked grid. And because of that very rarely if ever can the grid fall apart completely in spots. IGA had a similar problem in how he did platforming in LoI and CoD versus how it was handled in CV64/LoD. To me, those kinds of consequences are just part of the heart of the Castlevania franchise. Even Simon's Quest had falls you couldn't survive. The process can certainly be refined and made more fair in some circumstances, but there's no complete substitute for it in my mind. But the other modes might be helpful, as you say, in Bloodstained. And I pointed out that Bloodstained has already done some interesting references to things I'd like to see.
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Post by turbor on Jan 28, 2019 13:28:57 GMT -6
I love castlevania like games. I got hooked when I first played Vampire Killer on my beloved MSX2 and later played the Bloodlines on my Megadrive for years. Thanks to emulation I have played the other versions also. And despite what some people claim, I still prefer the cursor keys for these kind of games (that might be a side effect of being a child of the 80's were you had your home-computers and real joysticks, no gamepads  ) I was very exited since they promised a Linux version from the start on. This was going to be a game that I could play without emulating some other system. All the other kickstarters I backed so far all were nice and successful and kept their promises and it all felt as if this was going to be one of those projects. So I was super excited about it!
Then the demo's came out, no Linux version.... But hey, it was a demo and I still have some relatives who use Windows for gaming so I played it over there, and the first demo was nice... So the excitement stayed.
Given the scope of the promised game I didn't mind that they would take their time. But long waiting times do tend to decrease the excitement...
The second demo actually got my blood boiling. You are creating a game for PC and you don't support keyboard/mouse players??? Especially since the first game supported it?? They actually went out of their way to disable keyboard usage?? How can you consider yourself a decent developer for PC if you do support basic input methods and actually sabotage them ?? My excitement took a nose dive!
Also the extra game was windows only! That sucked for a game that was to be released on Linux. After the release of steamplay (aka wine for steam) I got it working under Linux but i had to jump through quit some hoops for that... It was developed by an other firm so ok, but i thought that they could have at least tell those guys that they needed a Linux and Mac version since the final game would support them. My thrust is in their communication and delegation skills plummeted.
I didn't get the bloodstained demo's to run under wine since it seem to use some DirectX functions that aren't implemented (yet?) by wine... But given the fact that the engine they choose was cross platform that shouldn't be a problem in the end...
Then as a Christmas gift they dropped my platform. As a final insult, they simply gave me the bird and told me that no refunds would be given and they would keep my money.
Given the fact that the demo's can not be run without having a windows license and do not run under wine/steamplay I highly doubt that the final product will be usable for me. Yes, my excitement is completely gone. If they simply gave me a refund, I would have parted with them and be slightly disappointed that after years of waiting I wouldn't get the game, but I wouldn't have lost anything. Now they actually stole my 60 bucks, I'm not even sure that they are going to send me a physical copy that I can sell in an attempt to recuperate some of my losses.
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Dengojin
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Post by Dengojin on Jan 28, 2019 14:01:36 GMT -6
The lack of interesting news and the negativity we have been dealing with recently
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Holic
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Post by Holic on Jan 28, 2019 17:59:38 GMT -6
Despite all the negativity surrounding the project, even more now after the Linux / Mac versions fiasco, I'm still very excited for Bloodstained.
Last year I played some La Mulana 1 & 2, Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Chasm and while they're all great games none of them felt as good as SoTN or other Igavanias. I need something to scratch an itch that has been going for 10 years and I think that Bloodstained will be the game to do that.
Also, Curse of the Moon played a huge part on making me stay on the hype train, that game hit all the right nostalgia spots. I know CoTM wasn't developed by ArtPlay, but if they can make RoTN be as good as CoTM then I'll be more than satisfied.
So yeah, Bloodstained RoTN is still a day one purchase for me.
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Post by rav4ishing on Jan 29, 2019 12:52:22 GMT -6
To maintain interest, I actually replay the old games. My favorites are Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, and of course Symphony of the Night. I usually wait at least a month or two in between games before starting up again. It's long enough that I forgot a few things and I am intrigued once more.
I played Chasm. Because of the level design, I never had any interest in playing the game a second time. But I had no regrets supporting the indie developer. I also tried Salt and Sanctuary...for the life of me I can't get interested in that game ever. I am more pissed about spending money on that game than losing money for this one (hopefully that doesn't happen!).
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Post by thebritishdragon on Feb 16, 2019 9:58:40 GMT -6
I am hyped for this game, just really really sad that I was never in a position to get a backers copy before they stopped accepting new backers :<
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