Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 2, 2018 5:44:55 GMT -6
There are no "boobs" only pixels.
Vepar looks like a "maid of the ocean" and her body looks like a forcefield around water to shape it up - which makes sense since the demon must use powerful magic to move around and survive on this "human realm / universe".
I would imagine Cthulhu being dark too, with similar colors. Less cartoon, more serious and magical.
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roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 2, 2018 7:56:41 GMT -6
There are no "boobs" only pixels. There is no game... only pixels.... there are no pixels.... only 1's and 0's. There is no Dana, ONLY ZU'UL!!! |
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Post by taburisu on Apr 4, 2018 1:29:57 GMT -6
Many people are happy because some aspects of the Vepar have been improved (the colors and face) and for that reason they don't give importance to the chest reduction. But this means that the developers have listened the requests to lower the tone of the game and that's something that worries and disappoints me.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 5, 2018 9:43:41 GMT -6
Many people are happy because some aspects of the Vepar have been improved (the colors and face) and for that reason they don't give importance to the chest reduction. But this means that the developers have listened the requests to lower the tone of the game and that's something that worries and disappoints me. It can be taken that way, but in case you haven't seen the feedback specifically, comments about her breasts were more on the grounds of them being cartoonish and silly in their movement/size/physics and such, to where it was more about achieving a gothic/serious tone and maintaining a scary and suspenseful aesthetic over the bright/goofy chuckle it more often previously induced. Its sexual nature in their words doesn't seem to have much to do it, and it's been said and I agree that she actually looks more seductive/attractive now than before. I would say that the garishness and color of her was preferable to me before (I like IGA's games being bright and energetic), but regardless I wouldn't say it was about toning down per se breast size for the sake of catering to some offended by it. |
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 5, 2018 11:42:32 GMT -6
Many people are happy because some aspects of the Vepar have been improved (the colors and face) and for that reason they don't give importance to the chest reduction. But this means that the developers have listened the requests to lower the tone of the game and that's something that worries and disappoints me. It can be taken that way, but in case you haven't seen the feedback specifically, comments about her breasts were more on the grounds of them being cartoonish and silly in their movement/size/physics and such, to where it was more about achieving a gothic/serious tone and maintaining a scary and suspenseful aesthetic over the bright/goofy chuckle it more often previously induced. Its sexual nature in their words doesn't seem to have much to do it, and it's been said and I agree that she actually looks more seductive/attractive now than before. I would say that the garishness and color of her was preferable to me before (I like IGA's games being bright and energetic), but regardless I wouldn't say it was about toning down per se breast size for the sake of catering to some offended by it. Obviously this is me with my own interpretations but in my experience people have a tendency to find ways to "justify" their own prejudices.... For example, when my grandmother would see a kissing/sex scene in a show she would say that was disgusting and that those people were married to other people in real life, and once in awhile I would say actually no neither of those two actors were married in real life, she would say "Well it's still disgusting!" that's because she was just looking for an excuse to justify her feelings about it. While I'm sure there are some that didn't like the design on some general principle I suspect there are more than a few that clinged onto that reasoning simply because it sounded better then "Her boobies offend my sensibilities" I don't see how big boobs or little boobs make one "gothic" or not, nor did they affect my taking her seriously personally, to me it was never about what was sexier big boobs or little boobs (She is a grotesque monster trying to kill me after all) I just didn't like that people felt the need to complain about it and treat it as though it was offensive or something, and in my experience thats when the "silly and non gothic" argument tended to spring up after people said don't be offended by boobs. As I've said before her bright colors really made her memorable in my opinion, they could have been darkened alil for sure but now honestly she just blends into the background so much that I barely remember what the new version looks like. Iga and companies outright refusal to address the issue directly (Iga himself only makes some vague comments about design suggestions and such at the SXSW panel) has led me to conclude that they did change it to avoid the issue. But regardless if I'm right or wrong the decisions been made, and I'm not going to stop supporting just because they made a decision I'm not happy with. So I've said my piece. |
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Post by LordKaiser on Apr 5, 2018 12:04:11 GMT -6
Enlarge her breasts, don't stray to much of her original design and vision. DO NOT SELF CENSOR for anyone! Also her lower part looks less monstrous. I dislike this new design, it looks very bad although I like the newer textures at least, anyways change it!
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 5, 2018 12:40:13 GMT -6
Oh definitely roguedragon, I know exactly what you mean and I don't doubt it. I myself was always fine with her and had gotten attached to some of the fanart pieces we'd gotten of OG Vepar. Like check this out 78.media.tumblr.com/5e900e3738fb326e43183583220e5235/tumblr_oxgo59O3Rx1t09dnqo1_1280.jpgSuch a cool crossover image and means to reach fans. Vep...kinda still looks like that, the iconic nature and representation possible with a chibi is yet to even be seen as possible with the new one. Like this: pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck9ktv-XEAEqVZd.jpgSo yeah, too bad on the colors as well as the physical changes imo too, but IGA/the others have been adamant about it not being a censoring thing. I gotta trust them with that, and like I said before, I do concede that in objective senses Vep does look graphically more polished and finished, as well as more attractive, which is the point of its design as a demon that's a lure to sailors. OG Vepar, understandably in many minds, was more bright and wacky than such. dareka's post above is also great for explaining this (where as pointed out, they were making some changes anyway). Here's Angel-Corlux 's response on the whole thing posted on Youtube: Whenever you see comments from us on our online platforms it comes (usually) from me, I'm Roberto Piraino, (Angel-Corlux) the brand manager at 505 Games responsible for publishing Bloodstained. I can personally guarantee everyone that both with the marketing/publishing (my domain) or the design of the game (Iga's domain) there is not a single decision that is made in order to pander to anyone with any kind of agenda. Whether it's social, religious, political or any kind of other activism or ideology, we avoid all of it like the plague. And consequentially, we're pretty deaf to any feedback that comes as a result of those/any agendas. The only thing guiding IGA is making Bloodstained the biggest, funnest, best looking game he's ever made, as HE envisions it. There are times when he brings stuff to me and is like "will we get in trouble for this?" and I'm just like "haha I don't care, I'll fight whoever, wherever to defend your artistic choices, you make your masterpiece". Now obviously that's within reason, and there are limits of course, but there hasn't been a single time where I even considered telling Iga "hey can we change/tone down x,y,z?", mostly because Iga doesn't work in the "extremes" of the artistic spectrum when it comes to things like violence or sexuality. Finally, specifically here with Vepar, there were a few major goals driving the rework effort, and some of them included things like making her look more menacing, more gothic/demonic (also due to fan feedback), as well as making her more attractive/seductive since her monster philosophy includes an element of functioning as a siren to lure sailors to their deaths. And making her more seductive also meant some changes to her face, it's much more detailed and realistic now if you take a good look.  Obviously "more attractive" is always going to be subjective to the eye of the beholder (or in this case game creator) and at least personally I believe that there are tons of looks, archetypes and ways to be beautiful and attractive, but that's just a little context to assuage any concerns from anyone who thinks we're ever making any decisions based on external pressures related to any kind of agenda. edit: Also I think this thread and some of your other recent ones should be in Bloodstained Discussion, Pure Miriam . Would you be okay with a move? |
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 5, 2018 15:26:12 GMT -6
purifyweirdshardGo ahead. i actually don't know why i posted here, move whatever you think it's necessary.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 6, 2018 12:47:08 GMT -6
Speaking of pixels (breasts to some), will we see nude pixels of the male kind? Flapping around when attacking you? Hm?
Its just pixels, but makes you wonder..
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Post by Monomona on Apr 9, 2018 7:52:57 GMT -6
I think that Vepar's new darker look is better and I love the animations for cooking and what not. I think the animation adds charm to the game and makes Miriam seem more human which could add to the effect of the story.
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Post by freddythemonkey on Apr 9, 2018 8:01:04 GMT -6
People will think what they want to think. If some folks even here will continue to believe that this change has been done in order to self censor the game and avoid "controversy", so be it. If official declarations from the community manager, who ENSURES that this was NOT done for censorship reasons, are not enough to reassure you guys, then nothing will, so think whatever you like.
As if some boobs in a 2.5 D in a project that is still somewhat small in the modern industry of AAA games would be enough to spark any significant controversy worth self censorship, anyway.
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roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 9, 2018 15:51:38 GMT -6
People will think what they want to think. If some folks even here will continue to believe that this change has been done in order to self censor the game and avoid "controversy", so be it. If official declarations from the community manager, who ENSURES that this was NOT done for censorship reasons, are not enough to reassure you guys, then nothing will, so think whatever you like. As if some boobs in a 2.5 D in a project that is still somewhat small in the modern industry of AAA games would be enough to spark any significant controversy worth self censorship, anyway. The very definition of the community managers job is to never say anything negative about the game and to create positive press as well as neutralize conflicts, I'm not calling any of the spokesmen liars, what they do is important and demanding. But I'm not going to depend on them for telling me all the bad news about the game either. |
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Post by exile on Apr 9, 2018 23:58:18 GMT -6
I'm of two minds. Philosophically, I hate that they changed Vepar because I don't like catering artistic vision to suit people's sensibilities, as others have stated above.
On a personal and selfish level, I love the redesign. Vepar is more menacing, more detailed, and those breasts actually look enticing now, instead of misshapen, half-deflated balloons. I thought the boss looked silly before. Now I think it looks great and is much more in line with the aesthetic the game is going for. And the glowing eyes on that demon belly look badass.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 10, 2018 1:13:39 GMT -6
I'm of two minds. Philosophically, I hate that they changed Vepar because I don't like catering artistic vision to suit people's sensibilities, as others have stated above. On a personal and selfish level, I love the redesign. Vepar is more menacing, more detailed, and those breasts actually look enticing now, instead of misshapen, half-deflated balloons. I thought the boss looked silly before. Now I think it looks great and is much more in line with the aesthetic the game is going for. And the glowing eyes on that demon belly look badass. It's probably also important to remember the original form in the demo was always a rough draft, it was never a final product, so certin changes like texturing and general cleaner look are not because of artistic/design changes per say rather just being closer to the finished product. |
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Post by exile on Apr 10, 2018 1:40:12 GMT -6
I'm of two minds. Philosophically, I hate that they changed Vepar because I don't like catering artistic vision to suit people's sensibilities, as others have stated above. On a personal and selfish level, I love the redesign. Vepar is more menacing, more detailed, and those breasts actually look enticing now, instead of misshapen, half-deflated balloons. I thought the boss looked silly before. Now I think it looks great and is much more in line with the aesthetic the game is going for. And the glowing eyes on that demon belly look badass. It's probably also important to remember the original form in the demo was always a rough draft, it was never a final product, so certin changes like texturing and general cleaner look are not because of artistic/design changes per say rather just being closer to the finished product. True, that's an excellent point. If I'm being SUPER picky, I'd say the creature's hands could still use a bit of work. |
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Post by freddythemonkey on Apr 10, 2018 2:12:52 GMT -6
People will think what they want to think. If some folks even here will continue to believe that this change has been done in order to self censor the game and avoid "controversy", so be it. If official declarations from the community manager, who ENSURES that this was NOT done for censorship reasons, are not enough to reassure you guys, then nothing will, so think whatever you like. As if some boobs in a 2.5 D in a project that is still somewhat small in the modern industry of AAA games would be enough to spark any significant controversy worth self censorship, anyway. The very definition of the community managers job is to never say anything negative about the game and to create positive press as well as neutralize conflicts, I'm not calling any of the spokesmen liars, what they do is important and demanding. But I'm not going to depend on them for telling me all the bad news about the game either. I can understand that, but if there's any sort of trust between us and Angel I don't find his declaration difficult to believe. As you also said, in the early stages of development there are many drafts which get slightly modified or redesigned entirely all the time. It is fine if someone liked the previous design for Vepar, but why seems to be necessary to claim that the redesign is being done to avoid controversy just because boobs are involved? Why can't it be that the designers just decided to modify the design in order to better fit the creator vision, instead of compromising it? If we saw a different version of a random enemy or boss, everyone would assume that they changed it as it is normal during production, but since the redesign in question happens to shrink some boobs it's suddenly an awful compromise of IGA's vision. I don't accept that. I accept that someone is unhappy with the redesign (even if personally I prefer the new one 100 to 1), but I don't like this mindset. |
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 10, 2018 3:16:42 GMT -6
"but why seems to be necessary to claim that the redesign is being done to avoid controversy just because boobs are involved? Why can't it be that the designers just decided to modify the design in order to better fit the creator vision, instead of compromising it?"
Why did I and other feel it was needed? Speaking for myself, simply because that's how I interpreted their answers myself and I chose to voice my thoughts. So far as I've heard it's never been addressed directly merely insinuated that no changes were made for social politics reasons. And I'm sure that even within the eyes of those involved there are different points of view... one person's suggestion after all is another insistence. To give an example of something that might convince me otherwise.... A clarification of exactly why the boobs were decided to be changed, (Because obviously someone at some point said lets give her big boobs and later someone also said lets change them this way) would seem to be an easy solution if social political correctness wasn't a factor, yet no ones said anything in fact I'd say they've avoided direct statements about it.
It indeed could be that PC culture played no part in the decision and that seems to be your perspective, I probably have just as much or little evidence to support my own feelings. I would love to have to publicly admit I was completely wrong and my feelings were baseless. But I just don't agree I think that part of the reason they gave her a breast reduction was cause there are some prissy people out there that would give this game bad press if they didn't. But as I've already said my piece and the choice has been made, shrugs.
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Post by Masquerade on Apr 17, 2018 23:39:51 GMT -6
People need to realize that’s still about a bra size of 106,000DD
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Post by tanerion on Apr 19, 2018 18:23:50 GMT -6
Seriously, those who like Vepar's redesign; Do you think of her as a seamonster or a giant sea maiden? Because the old one was pretty clear about being a grotesque monster but this new one doesn't seem to know what it is. Looks generic and tame as either one.
And as was brought up earlier in this thread; the redesign is pretty forgettable unlike the original design. I for one sure can't fully recall how the new Vepar looks despite having seen her more recently than the old one (which I remember every little detail of).
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Ancient Legion
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 19, 2018 18:31:49 GMT -6
^"She" is a male sea-demon to me. Dem bewbies are just lures, and the real face is the "belly".
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