LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 21, 2016 0:57:11 GMT -6
They weren't asked by anyone. It was a generic basic questions FAQ that was with the Kickstarter from the first day it was posted. Meaning an inverted castle is probably on the brain which was later confirmed to be something that was at the VERY LEAST have been discussed. So it's not a definitely never an idea, and definitely not a late addition or something. It was something that if its in the game it was the plan for the main game since the beginning Ah. I see. I was misinformed. You have my apologies. :) Yeah I'm not adverse to the idea, I just hope they keep it innovative somehow, like the reflected castle idea that was mentioned earlier. |
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 21, 2016 1:03:31 GMT -6
It's worth remembering that on the Kickstarter from day one was a faq question about an inverted castle. So it's very likely that if they have talked about doing one it was a very conscious decision for the main game to begin with and not an add on feature, cuz why else mention it at all? But...they didn't mention it... they were asked about it and responded to a question...? Like as in I don't think it was a conscious decision to include it, just a faq question I thought... Actually it was one of the first questions in the FAQ. Most if not all the original FAQ questions was updated on May 13, 2015 so I'm thinking this was one of the original questions, so I don't think they were asked about it. I think they've been thinking of an extra castle from the beginning. |
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 21, 2016 7:30:57 GMT -6
But...they didn't mention it... they were asked about it and responded to a question...? Like as in I don't think it was a conscious decision to include it, just a faq question I thought... Actually it was one of the first questions in the FAQ. Most if not all the original FAQ questions was updated on May 13, 2015 so I'm thinking this was one of the original questions, so I don't think they were asked about it. I think they've been thinking of an extra castle from the beginning. Yeah, I do recall such a thing. I think that, if they're actually going to do it for the main game, the mention of "inverted castle" is just a teaser. The surprise reveal may actually be a very different kind of second castle (more relevant to Bloodstained's story instead of just being a throwback to Castlevania), like the "Reflected Castle" idea. As someone already said: Nobody "hates" the idea of another Inverted castle... it just wouldn't be entirely as surprising as intended, for some people. Not as much of a refreshing concept. |
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 21, 2016 8:38:50 GMT -6
Actually it was one of the first questions in the FAQ. Most if not all the original FAQ questions was updated on May 13, 2015 so I'm thinking this was one of the original questions, so I don't think they were asked about it. I think they've been thinking of an extra castle from the beginning. Yeah, I do recall such a thing. I think that, if they're actually going to do it for the main game, the mention of "inverted castle" is just a teaser. The surprise reveal may actually be a very different kind of second castle (more relevant to Bloodstained's story instead of just being a throwback to Castlevania), like the "Reflected Castle" idea. As someone already said: Nobody "hates" the idea of another Inverted castle... it just wouldn't be entirely as surprising as intended, for some people. Not as much of a refreshing concept. I mean I don't think there goal was to surprise us on features. Obviously they aren't gonna say, inverted castle is in the game. Though we aren't here to be surprised by completely different types of gameplay. It's all very igavania. They just want to make the best one. So if anything it comes to NO surprise that they're bringing back all the elements that made Igavanias exciting in the first place. To make the greatest hits game! For example I wouldn't be surprised if there was a transformation feature in the game. They'd try to keep that as a surprise but to me it's something that wouldn't be a surprise but would be very welcome |
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 21, 2016 14:59:59 GMT -6
I think some of us are being misunderstood. It's not that we would dislike to see an inverted castle. Well I can't speak for everyone but my view isn't that I would hate to see a castle inverted or whatnot. Just that I'd rather have one 2000 room castle than a 1000 room castle partially re-done via inversion or what have you.
Basically I have no clue how much development time is saved choosing to invert a castle rather than simply make it twice as large, it probably depends on who is ahead of their job and who is behind. If the music development or monster design is behind, and you have new bgm/enemy types for every area re-done in an inverted castle, you woudln't really save time inverting the castle than just making each area 10% larger (but with some new styled rooms in it at least) in the first castle or something. But if say, the modeling/level design is behind. Inverting the castle gives you more game without causing stress on the bottleneck.
So yeah, I'd prefer a single castle twice as large all things being equal, but I very much would rather see something like an inverted castle if it'll give us 'more game' for the time spent developing it.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 21, 2016 18:15:17 GMT -6
I think some of us are being misunderstood. It's not that we would dislike to see an inverted castle. Well I can't speak for everyone but my view isn't that I would hate to see a castle inverted or whatnot. Just that I'd rather have one 2000 room castle than a 1000 room castle partially re-done via inversion or what have you. Basically I have no clue how much development time is saved choosing to invert a castle rather than simply make it twice as large, it probably depends on who is ahead of their job and who is behind. If the music development or monster design is behind, and you have new bgm/enemy types for every area re-done in an inverted castle, you woudln't really save time inverting the castle than just making each area 10% larger (but with some new styled rooms in it at least) in the first castle or something. But if say, the modeling/level design is behind. Inverting the castle gives you more game without causing stress on the bottleneck. So yeah, I'd prefer a single castle twice as large all things being equal, but I very much would rather see something like an inverted castle if it'll give us 'more game' for the time spent developing it. Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive. |
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 21, 2016 19:44:11 GMT -6
I think some of us are being misunderstood. It's not that we would dislike to see an inverted castle. Well I can't speak for everyone but my view isn't that I would hate to see a castle inverted or whatnot. Just that I'd rather have one 2000 room castle than a 1000 room castle partially re-done via inversion or what have you. Basically I have no clue how much development time is saved choosing to invert a castle rather than simply make it twice as large, it probably depends on who is ahead of their job and who is behind. If the music development or monster design is behind, and you have new bgm/enemy types for every area re-done in an inverted castle, you woudln't really save time inverting the castle than just making each area 10% larger (but with some new styled rooms in it at least) in the first castle or something. But if say, the modeling/level design is behind. Inverting the castle gives you more game without causing stress on the bottleneck. So yeah, I'd prefer a single castle twice as large all things being equal, but I very much would rather see something like an inverted castle if it'll give us 'more game' for the time spent developing it. Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that little point. "IGA's Biggest Castle" is singular. Technically, one Castle with 1,600 + Rooms is [almost] twice as big as SotN's Castle (942). The Inverted Castle in SotN is another castle, with a slightly higher number of Rooms (948). ^ Despite its obvious differences, the Inverted Castle in SotN is essentially the same Castle. Adding both numbers, thus the total amount of explorable Rooms, is missing the point. |
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 21, 2016 20:01:00 GMT -6
I think some of us are being misunderstood. It's not that we would dislike to see an inverted castle. Well I can't speak for everyone but my view isn't that I would hate to see a castle inverted or whatnot. Just that I'd rather have one 2000 room castle than a 1000 room castle partially re-done via inversion or what have you. Basically I have no clue how much development time is saved choosing to invert a castle rather than simply make it twice as large, it probably depends on who is ahead of their job and who is behind. If the music development or monster design is behind, and you have new bgm/enemy types for every area re-done in an inverted castle, you woudln't really save time inverting the castle than just making each area 10% larger (but with some new styled rooms in it at least) in the first castle or something. But if say, the modeling/level design is behind. Inverting the castle gives you more game without causing stress on the bottleneck. So yeah, I'd prefer a single castle twice as large all things being equal, but I very much would rather see something like an inverted castle if it'll give us 'more game' for the time spent developing it. Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive. That totally wasn't my point at all. pretend I said 'x' and '2x' if you will. |
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 21, 2016 21:51:57 GMT -6
Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that little point. "IGA's Biggest Castle" is singular. Technically, one Castle with 1,600 + Rooms is [almost] twice as big as SotN's Castle (942). The Inverted Castle in SotN is another castle, with a slightly higher number of Rooms (948). ^ Despite its obvious differences, the Inverted Castle in SotN is essentially the same Castle. Adding both numbers, thus the total amount of explorable Rooms, is missing the point. The inverted castle had 6 extra rooms...? What were they, Galamoth? Breakable walls? |
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 21, 2016 22:16:55 GMT -6
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that little point. "IGA's Biggest Castle" is singular. Technically, one Castle with 1,600 + Rooms is [almost] twice as big as SotN's Castle (942). The Inverted Castle in SotN is another castle, with a slightly higher number of Rooms (948). ^ Despite its obvious differences, the Inverted Castle in SotN is essentially the same Castle. Adding both numbers, thus the total amount of explorable Rooms, is missing the point. The inverted castle had 6 extra rooms...? What were they, Galamoth ? Breakable walls? They were part of the Reverse Caverns. You needed the Wolf Form (Skill of Wolf) to swim to the "top" of the water to gain the extra 6 "rooms" for 200.6% completion. |
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 21, 2016 22:23:31 GMT -6
The inverted castle had 6 extra rooms...? What were they, Galamoth ? Breakable walls? They were part of the Reverse Caverns. You needed the Wolf Form (Skill of Wolf) to swim to the "top" of the water to gain the extra 6 "rooms" for 200.6% completion. Well damn. I had no idea. I didn't know how to get into the water so I left it blank LOL |
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 21, 2016 22:29:25 GMT -6
They were part of the Reverse Caverns. You needed the Wolf Form (Skill of Wolf) to swim to the "top" of the water to gain the extra 6 "rooms" for 200.6% completion. Well damn. I had no idea. I didn't know how to get into the water so I left it blank LOL Just Hi-Jump into the upside-down "ceiling" water in the large river sections of the Reverse Caverns, morph into the Wolf, and (if you have "Skill of Wolf") start rapidly pressing the Triangle button (on PlayStation controllers) to "swim"!  |
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 21, 2016 23:17:09 GMT -6
Well damn. I had no idea. I didn't know how to get into the water so I left it blank LOL Just Hi-Jump into the upside-down "ceiling" water in the large river sections of the Reverse Caverns, morph into the Wolf, and (if you have "Skill of Wolf"), start rapidly pressing the Triangle button (on PlayStation controllers) to "swim"! :D Omfg ahaha yaaaas. I'll hafta try that sometime. I got the rest of the castle filled in, though. I was gunna start a new file at some point, but I don't know much about how the first battle with Dracula affects Allucard's stats. Do you know about this??? |
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 21, 2016 23:33:31 GMT -6
Just Hi-Jump into the upside-down "ceiling" water in the large river sections of the Reverse Caverns, morph into the Wolf, and (if you have "Skill of Wolf"), start rapidly pressing the Triangle button (on PlayStation controllers) to "swim"! Omfg ahaha yaaaas. I'll hafta try that sometime. I got the rest of the castle filled in, though. I was gunna start a new file at some point, but I don't know much about how the first battle with Dracula affects Allucard's stats. Do you know about this??? Alucard's beginning stats in SotN are affected by a few factors. (Perhaps more than the 3 I've listed) - How quickly you defeat Dracula (under 1 minute is do-able...but somewhat difficult, even if you Skip the infamous "Die Monster!" cutscene) - Whether you're damaged. Finishing the intro Dracula fight without getting hit even once is sure to affect Alucard's stats. - Whether or not you have the Cross or Holy Water equipped as Richter's sub-weapon. I think having "none" equipped (Flame Whip special instead) also affects Alucard's stats. The most I've ever gotten for Alucard in the beginning (New Game +) is 80 HP, 30 MP, & 60 Hearts, along with a free Heart Refresh (from reducing Hearts to 0 during the fight). I'm sure it can go even higher, if you're skilled (or lucky) enough. In any case (and back on-topic), I do wonder if IGA & co. will decide whether the possible 2nd Castle in Bloodstained will have even more "Rooms" than Gebel's Castle. |
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 21, 2016 23:55:27 GMT -6
Omfg ahaha yaaaas. I'll hafta try that sometime. I got the rest of the castle filled in, though. I was gunna start a new file at some point, but I don't know much about how the first battle with Dracula affects Allucard's stats. Do you know about this??? Alucard's beginning stats in SotN are affected by a few factors. (Perhaps more than the 3 I've listed) - How quickly you defeat Dracula (under 1 minute is do-able...but somewhat difficult, even if you Skip the infamous "Die Monster!" cutscene) - Whether you're damaged. Finishing the intro Dracula fight without getting hit even once is sure to affect Alucard's stats. - Whether or not you have the Cross or Holy Water equipped as Richter's sub-weapon. I think having "none" equipped (Flame Whip special instead) also affects Alucard's stats. The most I've ever gotten for Alucard in the beginning (New Game +) is 80 HP, 30 MP, & 60 Hearts, along with a free Heart Refresh (from reducing Hearts to 0 during the fight). I'm sure it can go even higher, if you're skilled (or lucky) enough. In any case (and back on-topic), I do wonder if IGA & co. will decide whether the possible 2nd Castle in Bloodstained will have even more "Rooms" than Gebel's Castle. :D Ok cool. Thanks, Galamoth. Yeah I wonder how the second castle will function, since a lot of people are thinking there's gunna be one. I feel like if there is one, Gebel will likely be in the second castle, rather than the first. And I also like the reflected castle would be a fun way to go about it, rather than an 'inverted' one. I'm not opposed to an inverted castle, I just would rather it stay original to Symphony of the Night, and IGA and co. come up with something innovative and new. Ya feel me? |
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 22, 2016 8:34:00 GMT -6
Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive. That totally wasn't my point at all. pretend I said 'x' and '2x' if you will. I feel like I'm missing something. You mentioned you rather have a 2,000 singular castle than a smaller castle doubled. However, my point is most likely it'd be the biggest castle but doubled. So, to me it's a grander experience. The way I'm reading your post is you're saying if there's an inverted castle it'll probably be a split of the 1,600. Which is why you used the example of 2,000 rooms vs 1,000 with inverted. However, I think if it's in the game it'll be 1,600 doubled not split. Now if your point was you rather have a 1,600 room singular castle than it doubled because you think that's too much, then I can understand your point but idk. I'll never complain about more game in an IGAVANIA. |
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Ancient Legion
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 22, 2016 17:50:26 GMT -6
That totally wasn't my point at all. pretend I said 'x' and '2x' if you will. I feel like I'm missing something. You mentioned you rather have a 2,000 singular castle than a smaller castle doubled. However, my point is most likely it'd be the biggest castle but doubled. So, to me it's a grander experience. The way I'm reading your post is you're saying if there's an inverted castle it'll probably be a split of the 1,600. Which is why you used the example of 2,000 rooms vs 1,000 with inverted. However, I think if it's in the game it'll be 1,600 doubled not split. Now if your point was you rather have a 1,600 room singular castle than it doubled because you think that's too much, then I can understand your point but idk. I'll never complain about more game in an IGAVANIA. I appear to have misinterpreted you as well. Will this happen again? MISINTERPRETCEPTION. |
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 24, 2016 22:35:21 GMT -6
Yeah, I think we'll get 1600 with a bonus castle, but that was kinda the topic of another thread where I shared the same opinion.. Forgetting what we THINK we're going to get, and what we ARE going to get. I'm just saying I'd rather have a 3200 room castle if you will, than two 1600 room castles (unless they are completely different, as in not just a mirror or upside down, or 'light/dark', version of the other). Not that I think we're GOING to get a 3200 room castle.
Imagine how cool it would be if we had a 1600 room castle, as they said, the one gebel made for Miriam (tha twas officially said right? not just theory? I forget now).. then after you beat it, you find out Gebel made his own effing castle as well =P. I'd die if that were the case instead of just some 'alternate' thing.
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Post by lvlv on Jul 25, 2016 1:44:29 GMT -6
Yeah but what hasn't been done? He's had extra new areas before like the chaos realm, he's had a castle A and castle B before....he's done a bunch of different things but nothing has touched the coolness of the inverted castle. An extra area at the end would be just as similar as doing an inverted castle. Except the inverted castle is a bigger change then an extended area. I know the inverted castle has been done before but you could do a UNIQUE take of it and really flesh the idea out more. All I'm saying is if he's gonna do something after the true ending, I'd much rather prefer something like an inverted castle where it really switches things up and gives you the whole thing to do again rather than an extra area that can be beat in a couple minutes. You just gave me an idea. I do think that doing a inverted castle is not very fun because that has ben done before. It was a huge surprise back there, not so much now. BUT, i think that CAN be done if it is something really different than what we are expecting. Like, you defeat the "final boss" and you met the requirements to unlock the second castle. Than, you teleport to it...and IT IS a OLD, broken, destroyed, decayed, inverted castle! Unlike Symphony of the Night that, most probably, due to budget and space limitations, the whole scenario was just inverted with few changes here and there at the looks, the Bloodstained inverted Castle COULD exist if it's looks are not only inverted, but vastly different, like: - Overall decayed, destroyed and broken look.
- Lava instead of water at the water areas (wich would require an ability to traverse it).
- Some areas have broken pieces and debris that changes the acess to some areas.
- Some elements of background at the first castle are at the player area now at the second castle.
- Bosses at places that didn't had bosses before.
And such...This could be cool. It could still exist a inverted castle, but with a very whole different look and feel. Not just a pallete swap like it was at SOTN. Surprisingly found harmony of dissonance has met some of your requirements! I almost forgot this game maybe due to its poor BGM...LOL But it really got a lot of interesting part in the level design! They even did a extra blending mode for a GBA game! No doubt they didn't got enough memory for music... |
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 25, 2016 8:07:59 GMT -6
Yeah, I think we'll get 1600 with a bonus castle, but that was kinda the topic of another thread where I shared the same opinion.. Forgetting what we THINK we're going to get, and what we ARE going to get. I'm just saying I'd rather have a 3200 room castle if you will, than two 1600 room castles (unless they are completely different, as in not just a mirror or upside down, or 'light/dark', version of the other). Not that I think we're GOING to get a 3200 room castle. Imagine how cool it would be if we had a 1600 room castle, as they said, the one gebel made for Miriam (tha twas officially said right? not just theory? I forget now).. then after you beat it, you find out Gebel made his own effing castle as well =P. I'd die if that were the case instead of just some 'alternate' thing. I wouldn't like that. The reason why the inverted Castle worked so well is because it's the same 'well designed' Castle. I can't imagine a second castle being well designed if it's a completely separate entity. Time constraints/money. Flipping a castle doesn't effect anything so you keep the great design, but have an extended game in a different way. |
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