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Post by ghaleon on Mar 30, 2016 21:59:58 GMT -6
I too like free exploration, and hidden areas that are discovered by player perceptiveness and logical experimentation. But I have to say SoTn DID have a few secrets that were guide dang it territory, and those I don't particularly like. I think the most blatant example was that one area where you can ride a hidden elevator by holding up in a specific area for like 10 seconds. I think there was another one related to the wolf form. I mean early on when you can run thru that rock by the mermen, that wasn't outrageous, but I think there was something else related to that some area where you had to do a power charge thing for another secret. I can't remember what. But IIRC it was pretty guide dang it too imo.
In any case, I'm not a big fan of guide dang it
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 31, 2016 13:58:16 GMT -6
I too like free exploration, and hidden areas that are discovered by player perceptiveness and logical experimentation. But I have to say SoTn DID have a few secrets that were guide dang it territory, and those I don't particularly like. I think the most blatant example was that one area where you can ride a hidden elevator by holding up in a specific area for like 10 seconds. I think there was another one related to the wolf form. I mean early on when you can run thru that rock by the mermen, that wasn't outrageous, but I think there was something else related to that some area where you had to do a power charge thing for another secret. I can't remember what. But IIRC it was pretty guide dang it too imo. In any case, I'm not a big fan of guide dang it Had no idea what you meant by guide dang it so I had to look it up. So....secrets that you find by luck? ( why not just say luck? haha) Anyways, I think they're cool in a VERY limited way. A couple secrets found by that would be cool, it's all part of the idea of.... "Holy crap...Did I just do that? I wonder how much more I can find in this game?" That all helps the image that the game has more to it than meets the eye, and encourages repeat playthroughs because who knows what can happen. I absolutely loved that about the game, but I do think it should be very limited because I mean you can only be SO lucky. |
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Post by Astaroth on Mar 31, 2016 19:18:38 GMT -6
in the inverted you use the bat charge instead of wolf dash, that one you were likely to find as a wolf running around exploring and using the wolfs speed, and the inverted castle has secrets in the same places so it becomes a matter of remembering where they are and how the change in terrain necessitates a slightly different approach to opening things
the secret elevator is a bit of a guide dang it (unless youd previously played a castlevania game and already know about the whole breakable wall and hidden item thing >P) but its forgiven by the fact that its still accessible later on a different way if you dont figure it out (but by then the items in that room are on par with your current gear) and to get there early you also have to fight your way past an enemy that can very easily kill you, so its risk and experimentation vs reward there
im all for the teach by doing approach, putting the first breakable wall behind an enemy that sticks close to the wall so at some point you are likely to hit the wall too and get that sound and visual cue of something being off is perfect, no stopping the game to MEGAMAN MEGAMAN, igas games in the past have done exceptionally well at keeping explanation and tutorials to an absolute minimum and what tutorials they do have for the most part are woven into some story element, but thats a bit off topic
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 31, 2016 21:21:14 GMT -6
Yeah, to me those hidden things are completely non-essential Easter egg type things, so it really bothering some people is more of a subjective aspect of the player's personality than an issue. It's not like a Nintendo Power-era thing as with Simon's Quest where you had to do things like this for actual game progression.
That said, there should be some contextual hints or some kind of precedent where it is -plausible- to have figured out the secret in some way, to the extent that someone who did not use the Internet at all would be able to eventually uncover it playing the game many, many hours and exhausting all manner of the game's usual secret-uncovering tools whatever they may be (attacking, having a certain familiar with you [i.e. fairy or demon], using or having an item equipped in a certain spot, time of day real time related to area, etc)
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 1, 2016 1:05:26 GMT -6
in the inverted you use the bat charge instead of wolf dash, that one you were likely to find as a wolf running around exploring and using the wolfs speed, and the inverted castle has secrets in the same places so it becomes a matter of remembering where they are and how the change in terrain necessitates a slightly different approach to opening things the secret elevator is a bit of a guide dang it (unless youd previously played a castlevania game and already know about the whole breakable wall and hidden item thing >P) but its forgiven by the fact that its still accessible later on a different way if you dont figure it out (but by then the items in that room are on par with your current gear) and to get there early you also have to fight your way past an enemy that can very easily kill you, so its risk and experimentation vs reward there im all for the teach by doing approach, putting the first breakable wall behind an enemy that sticks close to the wall so at some point you are likely to hit the wall too and get that sound and visual cue of something being off is perfect, no stopping the game to MEGAMAN MEGAMAN, igas games in the past have done exceptionally well at keeping explanation and tutorials to an absolute minimum and what tutorials they do have for the most part are woven into some story element, but thats a bit off topicit Its those turtorials woven into the plot that are typically cringe inducing to me. I wish more games would stop assuming we cant figure out simple gamplay mechanics on our own without the story beating you over the head with it |
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Post by Astaroth on Apr 1, 2016 8:34:50 GMT -6
im talking more about the seals in dawn, yes the mechanic was gimmicky but they did a good job of having the magic user give it to you and explain it instead of you finding it and then magically getting a tutorial
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Post by ghaleon on Apr 1, 2016 20:39:16 GMT -6
I think people are acting strangely defensive about my guide dang it comment... I wasn't complaining that SoTN had too much of it or anything to that effect, just that I don't like Guide dang its in general, and was expressing what I felt crossed that line in SoTN... However those elements consist of less than 0.1% of the game so it never really bothered me at all in that game.
I'm just saying what I did though because it seems most people here like the 'secret' element found in many castlevania games, and having more of something people like generally is a good thing. But I want to express that while I too wouldn't complain about having more, I don't wish that more means 'more secretive' as well up to that point where they feel like discovery is 'guide dang it'.
By the way, I don't even mind really silly hard to find secrets with no clues whatsoever provided the reward is minor like a minor consumeable or temporary power up or whatever. It's only a bug if it's something like special rare currency or an equipment piece that is either unique or powerful, etc.
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