Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
Fifty Storms
[TI0] Game On!
Posts: 402
inherit
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
477
0
Nov 22, 2024 9:53:11 GMT -6
373
Redogan
[TI0] Game On!
402
Jul 31, 2015 16:51:36 GMT -6
July 2015
redogan
|
Post by Redogan on Feb 9, 2016 21:00:32 GMT -6
So, I enjoy watching Developer Diaries for games that I'm anticipating. Has anyone said anything about whether IGA and/or IntiCreates has video Developer Diaries planned for Bloodstained?
If not, is that something the community would like to see happen or is it just a waste of time and resources considering that we already have regular updates on the project?
I enjoy the Ask IGA videos, but it would be cool to see more videos like the walk animation, early development update video. Basically, I would like to see videos of the developers talking about what they do while also showing off what they are currently working on. It could be about the shaders, music, sound effects, animations, weapon design, story tidbits, etc, etc.
Thoughts? I find myself often wondering what the teams are working on. Development Diaries throughout the creation process are a cool way to make fans happy and to build hype and possibly recruit more people to the Army of the Night.
|
|
xs8b
New Blood
Posts: 17
inherit
868
0
Jun 17, 2019 8:08:44 GMT -6
18
xs8b
17
Nov 8, 2015 9:55:46 GMT -6
November 2015
xs8b
|
Post by xs8b on Feb 11, 2016 10:34:35 GMT -6
I was assuming that the monthly updates would be behind-the-scenes type stuff; Diaries would be cool too. I think most hard-core fans have an interest in game development.I love that the team has decided to include the fans with polls and updates, but I think this sort of thing would be more interesting. But I suppose, short of hiring someone to follow the team around and edit and post video, it would require taking precious time away from development.
|
|
inherit
1111
0
Jun 29, 2019 10:20:45 GMT -6
21
illasera
34
Jan 30, 2016 16:44:56 GMT -6
January 2016
illasera
|
Post by illasera on Feb 11, 2016 16:19:53 GMT -6
PLEASE NO!!!! I don't know what you mean by a "developer diary" exactly, but with the exception of "The witcher 3" and its development of CD PROJEKT on youtube, i somewhat have a golden rule that has yet to fail me so far.. when you see developers blabaring about their game DEVELOPMENT PROCESS on youtube, and "The feelings" they want to give the player. and what they are currently doing and working on. and when you see a douche developer giving 3 hours speech on youtube video clip with the words "We are working on X so the player will be able to do Y" You can rest assure the game will fail big time, 100%, when you are too busy in PR`ing yourself and showcase your "in-development" product. The reason for that is mind-set, if you are aware of it or not, it changes slowly from "working on the game" to "showing off the progress of the game" Its those things that come quietly, after a lot of work put into internal development that usually take us by surprise Edit : This may sound a bit selfish but, if the development team got a few secs to spare on a diary, i would prefer if they would redirect the extra few secs to the game.
|
|
Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
Fifty Storms
[TI0] Game On!
Posts: 402
inherit
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
477
0
Nov 22, 2024 9:53:11 GMT -6
373
Redogan
[TI0] Game On!
402
Jul 31, 2015 16:51:36 GMT -6
July 2015
redogan
|
Post by Redogan on Feb 11, 2016 18:43:47 GMT -6
Interesting. I never really thought there was much correlation between Developer Diaries and the outcome of the game. I would agree that they shouldn't do anything of the sort if it would mess up their progress and cause delays.
|
|
Astaroth
Fifty Storms
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
Posts: 1,213
inherit
57
0
Jan 4, 2022 11:47:39 GMT -6
1,368
Astaroth
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
1,213
Jun 10, 2015 20:22:05 GMT -6
June 2015
astaroth
|
Post by Astaroth on Feb 11, 2016 19:14:20 GMT -6
i wouldnt mind a peek into like a meeting where they stuck a camera in the corner and forgot it was there, a truly honest dev diary though would be boring as shit to most people because it wouldnt be the devs hamming it up for the camera but actually doing dev work, like 2 hours of adjusting values and testing, adjusting navmesh and testing, adjusting model and testing, painting a new piece of concept art, looking at wireframes and swatches, looking at a whiteboard and walls of pictures deciding if they like path a or path b better, maybe a glimpse at the random injokes and funny placeholders devs use until the actual assets are finished
i do agree with ill though, i dont want the added stress on the team to ham things up to make things seem more interesting to people, game dev is often very tedious work obsessing over details most people run past without noticing, and occasionally one of the injokes or flourishes makes it all the way to release as an easter egg like the bugs in the opening of sotn >P
|
|
inherit
205
0
1
Oct 16, 2019 18:36:27 GMT -6
1,635
crocodile
1,088
Jun 27, 2015 16:51:30 GMT -6
June 2015
crocodile
|
Post by crocodile on Feb 11, 2016 19:48:28 GMT -6
PLEASE NO!!!! I don't know what you mean by a "developer diary" exactly, but with the exception of "The Witcher 3" and its development of CD PROJEKT on YouTube, I somewhat have a golden rule that has yet to fail me so far.. when you see developers blabbering about their game DEVELOPMENT PROCESS on YouTube, and "The feelings" they want to give the player. and what they are currently doing and working on. and when you see a douche developer giving 3 hours speech on YouTube video clip with the words "We are working on X so the player will be able to do Y" You can rest assure the game will fail big time, 100%, when you are too busy in PR`ing yourself and showcase your "in-development" product. The reason for that is mind-set, if you are aware of it or not, it changes slowly from "working on the game" to "showing off the progress of the game" Its those things that come quietly, after a lot of work put into internal development that usually take us by surprise Edit : This may sound a bit selfish but, if the development team got a few secs to spare on a diary, i would prefer if they would redirect the extra few secs to the game. I'm not entirely sure I understand the severity of your reaction here: - What are examples of games that have given insight into their development that have turned out poor? Can you at all prove that it has anything to do with the fact that they actually gave such insight or would it just be coincidental?
- Why are you calling people douches? Who is a douche? Did someone in particular piss you off? What a weird way to phrase your comments.
- Giving insight during development, regardless of the method, has value in that it maintains & builds consumer/backer confidence, is a way to advertise your product and allows you to get feedback, if you are open to it, as a developer.
- Developer diaries, or similar things like streams or overview videos or whatever, are pretty common for certain genres or development styles. Fighting games nowadays, be they AAA or indie, pretty much do this sort of thing consistently. Many developers turn to crowdfunding specifically because it lets them freely do things like this.
- There's a fatal assumption that a) the developers can't do work & do a diary/video/stream (plenty of them are able to do so) b) the people doing most of the work in creating the video content are the same people doing the coding work or whatever c) there are no benefits to doing this sort of thing that makes it worth the time (I've already mentioned a few) and d) the developers can't afford to make the time to do it as if every single second they are awake and not doing essential life functions they should be doing game work.
|
|
inherit
1111
0
Jun 29, 2019 10:20:45 GMT -6
21
illasera
34
Jan 30, 2016 16:44:56 GMT -6
January 2016
illasera
|
Post by illasera on Feb 12, 2016 4:54:42 GMT -6
(The quote system is bugged for me, please do a follow-up : I tried to remove my own nested-quote (a quote within a quote) so it won't get to a wall-of-text form while responding, but failed to do so)
1.)Examples? sure i guess we can go with not just one, just pick any known "expo" that you want that showcase a game (during development).
2.)If someone pissed me off? well a lot of developers as i wrote above, that during development, claim how innovation is important and how they wanted to "give me a feeling or x/y/z" (buzzwords, buzzwordz, buzzwords), Instead of letting me get my own impression when the game COMES OUT.
3.)This part only became popular during the social media in gaming uprising, and then people are surprised to why games are unfinished or getting delayed all the time. Because as claimed above, they are too busy maintaining & building consumer/backer confidence. YES, it is false to assume that's the sole reason but its part of the reason, its part of the time/money budget (development diary).
(Did any of the previous iga-games required any consumer confidence that the game will be good? (I can't say backers in previous instances obviously).
4.)That's pretty much a statement so i can't respond to it.
5.)Not as much as an assumption as a reminder that a lot of amazing games came out before the whole video diary concept took over A lot of amazing games also came up in this day and age when such practice became popular, sure. But again as you mentioned yourself, Even if the developers can multi-task just fine, there is still extra work to be done, may as well put it into the game, AND IF SOMEONE else is doing the editing, save that money on someone else and invest it into development. (ITS A TRADEOFF, THERE IS A BUDGET, AND TIME is part of the budget, there is a reason why they say "Time is money") assuming that making a diary is close-to-zero-payload work is a false one.
Examples of big talk in-development are out there, starting from something old like "supreme commander 2 interview" planetary annihilation development diary. Civ beyond earth progress interviews. watch-dogs development progress.
Just pick an expo / interview of people showcasing unfinished games and talking highly at them, Yes, i refer to them as development diaries.
I am in favor of developers "post-production-diary" , with iga and his his team sitting down and explaining about the development AFTER game came out, like in SOTN.
|
|
inherit
208
0
1
Apr 23, 2022 13:01:48 GMT -6
124
jboogieg
172
Jun 28, 2015 0:21:17 GMT -6
June 2015
jboogieg
|
Post by jboogieg on Feb 12, 2016 7:44:47 GMT -6
But as you've pointed out, developer diaries have gotten bigger as social media and videos have been a thing. It's a good way of people staying interested in what you're trying to do and are pretty much NECESSARY if you're a fundraised project. If you're attributing them to a game turning out to be bad then what about the people that've done videos and the game turned out to be good?
Volition did developer diaries and articles for Saints Row 4 and that game is great.
Platinum did extensive diaries before Bayonetta 1 and 2 came out on the Wii U and those are universally acclaimed.
Sure, any kind of showing off is trying to sell you a thing while at the same time wanting to show off their thing. Just like anything else, developer diaries are not a metric for how good or bad a thing will be and it's bit wrong to claim it as such.
Also saying that time spent doing them is better off on working is like saying that money spent on side modes is better spent on the main game: it's not necessarily true and when *done right* will benefit you rather than being a detriment. Because a thing being done wrong by some people doesn't mean it's being done wrong by *everybody*.
|
|
inherit
1111
0
Jun 29, 2019 10:20:45 GMT -6
21
illasera
34
Jan 30, 2016 16:44:56 GMT -6
January 2016
illasera
|
Post by illasera on Feb 12, 2016 14:49:29 GMT -6
Sure, any kind of showing off is trying to sell you a thing while at the same time wanting to show off their thing. Just like anything else, developer diaries are not a metric for how good or bad a thing will be and it's bit wrong to claim it as such. Also saying that time spent doing them is better off on working is like saying that money spent on side modes is better spent on the main game: it's not necessarily true and when *done right* will benefit you rather than being a detriment. Because a thing being done wrong by some people doesn't mean it's being done wrong by *everybody*. For me, they are "a metric for how good or bad a game will be", my personal belief is that if you are doing something, you should focus only on your end goal objective. To address the other point. my favorite thing in igavania games is the "boss rush" mode , a side mode that i spend a lot of time beating my own record. Yes, its pretty awesome "extra" and i enjoy it very much. Would i prefer if instead of doing it, they would add another element to the game itself? hmmm yea, Because overall, the boss rush mode does add A LOT without a doubt, But its still the main game that i wish to play the most.
|
|
Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
Fifty Storms
[TI0] Game On!
Posts: 402
inherit
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
477
0
Nov 22, 2024 9:53:11 GMT -6
373
Redogan
[TI0] Game On!
402
Jul 31, 2015 16:51:36 GMT -6
July 2015
redogan
|
Post by Redogan on Feb 12, 2016 18:05:46 GMT -6
An example of a game that turned out amazing (IMO) while also having developer diaries is Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. They called them "developer interviews," I believe.
|
|
inherit
205
0
1
Oct 16, 2019 18:36:27 GMT -6
1,635
crocodile
1,088
Jun 27, 2015 16:51:30 GMT -6
June 2015
crocodile
|
Post by crocodile on Feb 13, 2016 2:26:43 GMT -6
I'm skeptical about how much you know about game development (or even more broadly project management in general) illasera. I bet you are the type of person who complain about clones in fighting games too ;-) Anyway, part of creating a product is actually advertising and selling it. If you make a game and nobody buys it you're finished. Word of mouth can be helpful for some titles but you need to do the bulk of your advertising before the game comes out. What is this game? What does it play like? Why should I care about it? These are all questions that developers and publishers aim to answer. When you make something you intend to share with the world, you have to let the world actually know about it and why they should care. Or else you might as well just throw it in the trash or in a vault when you're done (after all that effort and money that went into creating it). That's why things like "developer diaries" and trade shows exist - so that companies can inform consumers and other industry people about their project and advertise them. It also offers a great opportunity for feedback. You can complain all you want about "why aren't they working on the game" but such complaints have no merit - doing these sorts of things are actively good for the game, the developer, the publishers and the consumers. With regards specifically to crowdfunded projects, its the responsibility of the developers to inform the backers on what they are doing and their progress. They took backer money upfront, we have to keep them honest to make sure they are on track. Crowdfunding is ALL about trust and if that is lost or damaged in any way, things start to spiral out of control VERY fast. Furthermore, the communication between backers and developers is intimate enough that feedback is a very important and real aspect of a crowdfund project's development - more so than most traditional publisher funded games. This is to say nothing of the fact that time spent promoting the game regardless of the method (something with tangible and very important benefits) isn't necessarily time that could have been spent developing the game be it due to diminishing returns, specialization in role and function, how such developer interaction can improve the base quality of the game, etc. I'm also not sure you have a good understanding about the relative effort that goes into crating different types of content. Boss Rush Mode is basically putting a timer down and making a few rooms to hold bosses you already had to create for the main game. It's a staple of games like these and its absence would have been sorely missed. It broadens the appeal and increases the value of the product but doesn't cost a lot of relative time or effort to make. The additional modes funded that are likely to cost the most time and money are stuff like the online modes (online programmers aren't going to be working on the main game anyway so there's no lost dev time or conflict) and stuff like the Rogue-like mode (which can add a massive amount of value to the game). There's no real reason for concern aside from paranoia. Keep calm and rational my friend
|
|
BloodyTears92
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]It is time for darkness. It is a blood banquet.
Posts: 342
inherit
959
0
Jan 28, 2020 3:45:53 GMT -6
438
BloodyTears92
[TI1]It is time for darkness. It is a blood banquet.
342
Dec 7, 2015 22:34:49 GMT -6
December 2015
bloodytears92
|
Post by BloodyTears92 on Feb 13, 2016 16:05:27 GMT -6
I remember when the game "Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles" was coming out, they had a weekly developer diary every Friday. It covered all kinds of things: re-composing classic songs, balancing difficulty, just talking about the feelings people had towards the content they were re-imagining etc. It was a lot of fun to wake up Friday morning before High School and read the dev diary, is was interesting stuff.
Now I don't think expecting this team to do something every week is reasonable or feasible, especially since our updates are essentially this, but the desire to get looks at the "people behind the curtain" are almost always welcome, its why I get antsy around the end of every month after all. Even if its just a paragraph about how "so and so is finishing X and its coming along nicely" is so much more than we usually get from a game.
|
|
inherit
473
0
Sept 11, 2019 21:43:33 GMT -6
1,266
Goobsausage
1,369
Jul 30, 2015 13:50:49 GMT -6
July 2015
unclstv
|
Post by Goobsausage on Feb 13, 2016 17:11:11 GMT -6
I'd love to see some sort of Developer Diaries if they end up bringing and showing details or information that's not already covered in the Kickstarter updates. Whether or not they're considered a PR thing is a non-issue for me since any creative person (or business person) worth their weight in salt has to believe in the product they're making (or selling) and not view their work as just another gig. If a multi-part series ends up being too difficult or time-consuming to make, I'd be happy with just a stand-alone documentary for Bloodstained's whole journey similar to the hour-long documentary about making "The Phantom Menace". It may be a little late to get footage of things like early pre-production meetings involving Ben Judd and IGA, but that can be worked around with interviews describing what went on, footage from PAX panels, and campaign streams.
|
|