XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jan 30, 2016 15:26:54 GMT -6
Dan Felder is a guy I'm a fan of. He does podcasts and game design. Recently he has made a series of videos explaining how Castlevania on the NES is a game that although not flawless, is a very well designed game. I really enjoyed his lessons for this classic. As a former DM who still fantasizes about making another tabletop RPG, I really like listening to his podcast on D&D game design.
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Post by crocodile on Jan 31, 2016 17:21:18 GMT -6
A lot of my friends and acquaintances do Game Design for a living. It's a fascinating profession that gives a new and alternative perspective to the games you play be they video games, card games, board games, etc. Basic Game Design principles apply to each.
Mark Rosewater is the head designer of Magic the Gathering at Wizards of the Coast. He has written ("Making Magic" column) and podcasted ("Drive to Work") more on the subject of game design than anyone I know. They can all be found on the Daily MTG website (archives for days). It's focused on MTG and I don't agree with everything he's said but the man is smart and you'll learn a metric shitton about game design from him. He could seriously collect most of his writing into several books. If anyone has a cursory interest in Game Design, they should seek out what that man has written.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jan 31, 2016 17:58:18 GMT -6
That's cool! Coincidentally Dan Felder that made that video has a podcast called Remaking Magic where he uses MTG as a great platform for discussing game design. He and his co-host pick a fan made MTG card and talk about how it would do in the game. It's pretty cool, and I only play a tiny bit of Magic.
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Post by crocodile on Mar 18, 2016 12:54:19 GMT -6
Mark Rosewater (who I talked about already in this topic) recently gave a talk at GDC called " 20 Design Lessons from 20 Years of Magic the Gathering". Even if the talk was MTG focused, these are still lessons that apply to ALL of Game Design (though different lessons will be more or less relevant to different games). As I've said before, I don't always agree with everything he says but that doesn't change the fact that he is a gifted game designer who does know what he's talking about. His 20 lessons can be distilled by the photo of the slide below: - Fighting against human nature is a losing battle
- Aesthetics matter
- Resonance is important
- Make use of piggybacking
- Don't confuse "interesting" with "fun"
- Understand what emotion your game is trying to invoke
- Allow the player to make the game personal
- The details are where the player falls in love with the game
- Allow your players a sense of ownership
- Leave room for the player to explore
- If everyone likes you game, but no one loves it, it will fail
- Don't design to prove you can do something
- Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win
- Don't be afraid to be blunt
- Design the component for the audience its intended for
- Be more afraid of boring your audience than challenging them
- You don't have to change much to change everything
- Restrictions breed creativity
- Your audience is good at recognizing problems and bad at solving them
- All the lessons connect
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Post by ghaleon on Mar 18, 2016 22:07:32 GMT -6
I think make the fun part the correct strategy to win to be one of the most important. Though not important enough where sometimes games that are fun in general fail to employ this rule.
For example. I like roguelikes, real roguelikes, not roguelites (I like those too! they just aren't applicable to the point I'm planning to make here. Inventory management is often a huge factor in succeeding in them. However more often than not, the player comes across a really cool/powerful/amazing item that is unfortunately either too situational, or requires too much of a rare resource/ammunition to use. Thereby making that cool ass fun item a toss-away. lame.
DoomRL is one I like, and that one, while I like the game, has some strange things the player really has to do in order to win. the first is 'blind shoot', which is basically shooting your gun around a corner without even seeing what's behind it (because the game otherwise doesn't have a cover system), this isn't terribly un-fun per say, but it's still a bit odd. If you dare play on nightmare difficulty though, the game is virtually impossible unless you spend a crapton of time doing a very dull strategy of moving a few steps, dropping a valuable that monsters are attracted to (generally med kits), retreating, and waiting until a monster reveals itself to loot the med kit (they can loot and USE med kits in that game.. well not all monsters, many can though). This enables the player to manage their health by ensuring they face enemies in smaller numbers than otherwise possible.. but really, the whole process is pretty tedious I must say myself, and doesn't really make nightmare something I really care to play for any length of time for. Despite that, Iw ouldn't call the game unsuccessful however.
Another broader example are certain tower defense games. Depending on the nature of them, they might be the kind where you manually construct your own 'maze' of towers, and the key to winning is a combination of the shape of your maze, selection of towers, and where each tower is located in your maze...However some of these games (desktop tower defense comes to mind), are literally impossible without employing the tactic known as 'juggling'. Which is often regarded as 'cheating' to many tower defense games. However you can't really accuse someone of 'cheating' when they juggle in a game that isn't possible without juggling. What is juggling? Basically it's making your maze have only one exit (which is natural by default), but when your enemies are near the exit, you sell or destroy a tower far away in your maze to create a new exit, and build a tower where your old exit was, making enemies have to turn around and travel thru your maze again (and you repeat the process again and again. This strategy effectively eliminates all the important tactics of the game otherwise, the shape of your maze is unimportant aside from having potential exits far away from each other, the location and selection of towers matters little when enemies are stuck somewhere in it indefinitely regardless, etc.
Oftentimes whenever I complain about games that require the player to do something I think is 'boring' to win, the players defend the game with lines like 'Casul too dumb to play to win cuz casul!'.
Basically it makes me happy knowing that someone else out there thinks that making the winning strategy the 'fun' ones is important.
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thrashinuva
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[TI2] I'm interested in this.
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 19, 2016 10:37:31 GMT -6
Castlevania's only problem was Medusa heads. Other than that the difficulty isn't so hard that you can't beat it, just the Medusa heads are so so stupid. It's from a time when saving the game wasn't really a thing, barring games like Zelda. Games were hard to elongate their lifespan. You could only beat it once you had mastered the mechanics within the game. That way, you stuck to it and stuck around for the sequel. So, in terms of today's standards, Castlevania had some issues. In terms ye olde age standards, Castlevania was a pretty well designed game.
Those Mark points are pretty great, but I'd add lesson 21: Nothing is definite. Even if you follow each of those rules, you're not guaranteed a well selling game. Even if you follow none of those rules, the odds are slim, but you could still have a hit on your hands. Basically, if your goal is to make money, you should try to develop interest while keeping costs low. If your goal is to transform the industry, you should try to do something no one else is doing. I can't really think of a game that doesn't follow at least one of those rules, but I think you'd have to intentionally break them to do so. However if you go back again to when the industry was less creative, there are some outstanding examples of breaking the rules.
One can look to Hideo Kojima for a legacy of games that broke the standards and came out better for it.
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