Foffy
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Post by Foffy on Jan 22, 2016 13:03:21 GMT -6
Hey friends. I figure it may be too early to really talk about the launch of the game, seeing as the visual direction of the game is being worked on, there was something I've been wondering since that last update is not only has the game undergone far more substantial progress than I thought, but the fact the Kickstarter was awfully specific in regards to release windows. Most Kickstarters state a target year, and Bloodstained is the only one that comes to mind that was so specific to name a month. Even most games from traditional publishers never get that specific at announcements, unless it's nearly finished. Then there's the fact current console trends make all of that interesting for some of the versions planned.
The thing running through my mind is the fact that 2016 may be the last major year for the Playstation Vita, Nintendo 3DS, and Nintendo Wii U. Vita has been anemic internationally, so it doing even decently is almost miraculous but that ship seems to eventually be sailing away, the Wii U is surely going to be pushed aside before this year is even over for the Nintendo NX and the fact devkits are out in the wold, and then there's the consistent rumors that the NX is a hybrid console/handheld device, potentially merging Nintendo's dying handheld ecosystem (outside of Japan) and dying console ecosystem (everywhere) into an all-in-one global platform. This has me wondering that if Bloodstained fails to meet its March 2017 target, the versions on the three aforementioned platforms will be effected in negative ways if the game is on what would be considered dead or even last-generation platforms. Many companies have handled long development times and delays by putting their games on the newer systems, a notable one being Persona 5. I don't see Bloodstained being able to do that, as it was funded for specific platforms. It kind of has to make its promises from backers and fans first, markets be damned.
Furthermore, this gets even more interesting to wonder about in regards how IGA and his team will decide how to launch the game, for I don't recall any statement regarding what the game will launch with. To name a few things planned for the title, there's the main game, a boss rush, a prequel game, a classic mode, a boss revenge mode, and a roguelike mode. Will we see everything announced as backer accomplishments launch day and date with the game, or will it be the base game at launch, and substantial features coming in later updates? Major releases have allowed a game to launch with massive features of interest coming later -- Grand Theft Auto V is especially famous for this, as its online Heists, marketed before the game even launched, came out a year and a half after the game did -- but limiting it to Kickstarter projects, the closest that follows this example was Shovel Knight. Recently in games, there's been a PR disaster regarding the newest Hitman title, for not only failing to miss it's specific launch date of December 08th of 2015 date, but now a failure to launch with what they said it would; the game went from eight starting missions to four, and where the game was getting most of its content in the first three months, it's now over the entire year. It makes me wonder how IGA will exactly handle this project, as I hoped to have shown, there are many ways to skin a chicken, or in this case, how and what to release regarding a game.
I figure I would ask the rest of you guys what you think may happen regarding the game and the specificity of March 2017 being a target to genuinely hit. Personally, I don't know. IGA can pump out games super quickly, as Portrait of Ruin was finished in less than a year, but that's based on an established game with established assets. Everything here has to be made from scratch, the castle is planned to be the biggest it's been in from him, then there's all of the additional things on top of that. The only thing I can think of that can easily be done before that release window is making all of the monsters: the Ars Goetia has about 72 monsters, which is not exactly a particularly large roster of monsters to work with, and that's assuming they choose to use all of them. Perhaps getting the base game done and having it on most of the platforms could meet that release period, but I find it a near-impossible thing to assume all of the versions with all of the announcements will be released prior to the end of 2017, and thus feel if IGA wants every goal met before one gets to play the full game, a delay is all but promised.
But what say you all?
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 22, 2016 14:14:28 GMT -6
Based on igas track record of dealing with insanely tight schedules and miniscule budget, i think he will do great here, hes got quite a few people that have worked with him before, and he trusts his team to stay on task as well as surprise him with interesting ideas without resorting to micromanaging or lucasing, atm he has 14 months till 3/17, and if what hes shooting for is a new era starting on nitms 20th anniversary that would be a good way of tying into that hallmark without having to mention it at all, and even if they dont make it specifically 3/17 theres still a whole 9 months after that before sotn came out in the us, and a year after that to be within the 20th anniversary, it gives him quite a bit of wiggle room but still gives a goal to strive for
were not even out of jan and we already have shaders, concept art, miriams model, the basic storyline, sketches of a bunch of different areas, yamane and yamada are probably already hard at work talking with the artists on ideas for areas and suitable music for them, they really hit the ground running on this one and it looks like iga has picked a great team that knows his style of gaming well
I think if they get absolutely stuck on a specific mode and its draining too much from work on the main game, i can see them meeting up to make the call whether to keep hammering at it or focus on something else that is going well and hold off on that piece for an update, sometimes that is the best decision, but given that none of igas other games have used dlc i think theyll finish the game in its entirety before they look at any kind of paid dlc and theyll try to release as many modes as they can get up to suitable quality before release
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Post by allooutrick on Jan 22, 2016 14:40:02 GMT -6
I think March is way too specific of a date for something like game development. There are so many variables that have to be taken into consideration (programmers getting sick, family emergencies, unforeseen bugs, etc). More realistically we can expect it in the first half of the year, maybe in a time frame between June and September. Iga had the concepts of this game down and, if I remember right, the story too, before the Kickstarter even began. So that's a piece of development time already done. The team he employed is also said to be very skilled in what they do which can accelerate the process compared to an ordinary team. We also have all those bonuses added in that were funded which will undoubtedly add to the time it takes to complete the game. Lastly the average game these days takes one to two years to make and they already have a portion of creative process done (namely sequels). Taking all this into consideration I'd say that their time frame is pretty reasonable. Two years roughly for a fresh 2D game that has a 3D world is a small order compared to the modern sensation of open world 3D games.
Edit: I feel like I'm talking in circles but I refuse to alter my posts more than slightly. I just feel that words, once said, can't be taken back so the same should apply to the posts I write.
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Post by ghaleon on Jan 22, 2016 14:40:35 GMT -6
I pretty much have yet to get a game I've been looking forward to when its initial release date was projected, they're always delayed... every, darn, time. I don't get upset that they 'fail' to deliver, I'm just bemused wondering when these companies will learn to stop making optimistic release date estimates. Anyway, I expect bloodstained to be delayed too, and not because I have a lack of faith in IGA or his team, but simply because as I said, it always happens.
That and they got all these bonus stretch goals, and the release date was NOT extended to accomodate for that. I personally don't see how you can magically cram that much more content than you expect to in a game without having a delay!
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Post by Goobsausage on Jan 22, 2016 15:04:22 GMT -6
I voted for "other" because my gut feeling is a mix between "only the prequel" and "only the base/some versions of the game".
I can see the prequel game coming out first or meeting the March 2017 release date since it's just a minigame and it'll have a shorter development cycle than the full game.
I can't think of a single Kickstarter I backed where it met its initial launch window, but I don't think that's a bad thing. I'd rather see people take their time and I have other things to look forward to. But when Bloodstained is released, I wouldn't be surprised if it launched with just the main game and all the stretch goals came afterward since that seems to be the normal thing to do with crowdfunded projects and I don't want to get overwhelmed with too much game.
I'm going to be surprised if the PS Vita version of Bloodstained gets released. Every Vita owner I've encountered loves the system, but I can count the Vita owners I've come across on one hand and Sony's been barely supporting it. I'm not sure about the Wii U getting released. It has such a vocal fanbase and most of IGA's games released on Nintendo handhelds, but I can't see the Wii U surviving into 2017.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 22, 2016 15:04:48 GMT -6
Yeah, like I pointed out in the other thread about the release date, I'm willing to bet all the moneys they projected 03/2017 because of it being Nocturne's 20th and that if they miss that, Symphony's is several months away for a second chance at a window that has a similar effect.
It'd be great for the legacy, but even if that goal isn't met, I think it'd be just fine. I want their best work, not their fastest, so as long as IGA can make more games before I'm done on this earth, that's fine.
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Post by ghaleon on Jan 22, 2016 15:10:01 GMT -6
I think the vita still has a decent 3rd party market in Japan, so having a vita version is probably good for that market at least. It's just that sony isn't making first party titles for it anymore, which frankly I'm confused as to why people make such a big deal about it. own every sony console and handheld there is, and their first party gamebase is pretty forgettable across the board imo.
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Post by crocodile on Jan 22, 2016 15:15:32 GMT -6
Short Answer: LMAO NO
Long Answer: Most Kickstaters I've seen have some preliminary Month & Year combo they expect the game to come out and they can't/don't change it over the course of the campaign. It's not uncommon. I certainly believe the version of Bloodstained that was funded by a campaign that hit none of its stretch goals (which is the minimum IGA and crew can assume if they get funded) could have come out in March 2017. Not the version that actually got funded though - the campaign was way more successful than they could have imagined. With regards to the Shovel Knight comparison, Yacht Club Games said straight up in their campaign that not all the content would be there at launch. IGA & crew did not. Now of course they could change their minds during development but as of right now there is no reason to think so and I assume most Backers currently expect all the content at launch. If say IGA and crew wanted to launch the Rougelike mode or the Boss Revenge Mode at a later time I don't I'd mind but of course the question becomes which modes can they save for later and which are critical to launch with? An interesting question though one I'm not sure I can or I am interested in answering right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 18:16:39 GMT -6
Don't see how certain consoles possibly having a small active playerbase affects the release on the console. Armature is already given the task and no additional funds need to be invested as digital only releases for non-backers is a viable option.
As for whether or not the release date will be met, that's guesswork. The "KS' always get delayed" argument doesn't really work. How many KS projects can you name that had a budget like this, a sizable dev team and were led by someone with decades of industry experience, with that experience including actually leading and finish projects in a timely manner?
Also, wall of texts suck.
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xCROOKEDx
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Post by xCROOKEDx on Jan 22, 2016 20:32:19 GMT -6
I think only the prequel game would be able to meet that time frame. If this were a Castlevania game (e.g. the team had assets they could reuse), and IGA was working with the same team as he was before, then the March 2017 date would be reasonable.
I mean, it's possible, but I would think Winter 2017 is more likely.
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Post by ghaleon on Jan 22, 2016 21:25:50 GMT -6
Yeah I'm not skeptical about the date because 'all ks games'...just all games that I personally look forward to period. They always get delayed, so I've kinda learned not to get my hopes up for them being released when estimated. I'm aware that portion wasn't directed at me though.
I made another thread before this one about the march release date though, and I was basically saying how I think it's odd that they would specify march, and not just 2017, or Q1 2017 or something.
But then it occured to me that maybe March *IS* basically Q1 2017, kinda like when you want something to be out sometime during Febuary, you might say Febuary28th, even if you suspect it might be earlier...Maybe march is just their 'worst case scenario' for a Q1 release date, and they really aren't hoping for march so much as q1 but say march just so people don't feel too expectant during January/febuary.
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Post by lod7 on Jan 22, 2016 22:21:21 GMT -6
I kind of just want the dev team to officially announce the delay. I know it is coming. Anytime a game is "forced" to come out on time it has been pretty crappy or sub par, like assassin's creed unity and devil may cry 4.
Can't we also make this official and have Mana send, what we consider as a community, a reasonable timeline?
I am thinking 3 years to 4 years max.
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JoJo
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Post by JoJo on Jan 22, 2016 22:28:04 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure that the game will get delayed It's better that way, but then I'm kinda scared on the budget, because extra time means more money needed and that will cause the game to be watered down and will cause a very big disappointment
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Post by CastleDan on Jan 22, 2016 22:38:25 GMT -6
There's no way. They just got a shader picked most likely, now they have to build everything, build the systems, build the enemies, build the locations, build the items, build all the game modes ( which honestly I could have done without just make the main game as beautiful and good as possible)....
It'll take a while I'm sure.
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xCROOKEDx
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Post by xCROOKEDx on Jan 22, 2016 22:42:19 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure that the game will get delayed It's better that way, but then I'm kinda scared on the budget, because extra time means more money needed and that will cause the game to be watered down and will cause a very big disappointment To be fair, the game already has a publisher, and extra funding due to Kickstarter. Money probably wont be that large of an issue.
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Post by JoJo on Jan 22, 2016 22:45:32 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure that the game will get delayed It's better that way, but then I'm kinda scared on the budget, because extra time means more money needed and that will cause the game to be watered down and will cause a very big disappointment To be fair, the game already has a publisher, and extra funding due to Kickstarter. Money probably wont be that large of an issue. The thing is, will the publishers willing to give out the extra money? that is the big question right there
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jan 22, 2016 23:08:48 GMT -6
I wouldn't mind delays if it meant a better game, though it would have been nice for a release on SoTN's 20th anniversary. Still, who knows. maybe the team will impress us and put themselves into overdrive to meet that deadline. I'd not anticipate it, though.
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Clear
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Post by Clear on Jan 22, 2016 23:12:30 GMT -6
I will say no because I'm not taking the "March 2017" seriously at all. I think it's still too early to see it as something set in stone. As I mentioned on the other thread, I see it as nothing but a placeholder date, nothing more, nothing less.
It's perfectly fine to expect that certain issues may come up at any time during any phase of Bloodstained's development from concept to final product, and that these certain issues altogether may cause some delay in release date. Figuratively speaking, there are many moving parts within game development, and so on. So some cushion is reasonable to expect if we look at this from a technical point-of-view.
Also, I won't take "March 2017" seriously until we get much further into Bloodstained's development (like probably starting around Summer 2016) and Iga himself will tell us (in an Ask Iga episode, perhaps?) and confirm beyond all doubt what the release date will be, even down to the release day if there's enough data to pinpoint that far in.
But don't get me wrong... it may very well make the "March 2017" window, and if it does, then it's just extra delicious icing on the Miriam cake for all of us to enjoy.
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Post by ghaleon on Jan 23, 2016 0:33:55 GMT -6
hard to believe it will be SoTN's 20th anniversary in just over a year. I still consider people who started gaming during the ps1/n64/saturn era to be the 'new kids' =P. Mostly because that's about when being a gamer went from making you a too nerdy to look at outcast to being pretty mainstream finally.
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cecil-kain
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Post by cecil-kain on Jan 23, 2016 2:38:51 GMT -6
I will be completely amazed if the March 2017 release date holds.
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