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Post by giwagiwa on Jan 7, 2016 22:45:25 GMT -6
In other words, things you didn't like about any of the previous metroidvania Castlevanias that you don't want to see repeated in Bloodstained.
I'll start with the castle layout in Harmony of Dissonance. I loved the start of the game, but it's the one game I grew tired of playing because of the extreme amount of backtracking and confusion about how to get to where you want to go due to necessary warping between two castles to get around. This was an intentional part of the game design but ended up being very frustrating.
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Clear
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[TI0] お疲れ様でした、IGA!
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Post by Clear on Jan 7, 2016 22:50:52 GMT -6
The required stylus drawing for ending boss fights in Dawn of Sorrow. I kept having trouble on them towards the end of the game as the drawings get more complex the further the game's played.
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Post by Valtiel on Jan 7, 2016 23:02:22 GMT -6
I agree with everything posted so far. I guess if I had to pick something else I'd say the relatively low difficulty. Compared to the classic Castlevanias or even something like Circle of the Moon Iga's games were fairly easy. Order of Ecclesia was a step in the right direction, and I was hoping the next game would be even more challenging, but then Konami went all wacky and ruined everything.
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BloodyTears92
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[TI1]It is time for darkness. It is a blood banquet.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jan 7, 2016 23:13:42 GMT -6
I have never actually re-beaten Harmony of Dissonance because trecking across the two castles looking for his body parts was very grating. I like me some backtracking in these games, its part of the formula (get new thing and go backwards to look for new places) but that got REALLY excessive. TO be honest Im hoping Bloodstained has the resources that IGA and the team wont have to re-use assets like the inverse castle, the upside down castle from SOTN or the re-arranged Portraits from PoR to pad out the game.
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Post by CastleDan on Jan 8, 2016 10:08:17 GMT -6
My least favorite issue that started to rear its head more and more each game.
Repetitive level design. Lots of box rooms, lots of copy and pasting, too much to the point that I wasn't really as excited as I normally was when exploring.
It's a huge fear of mine with this game Especially since they're saying it's the biggest castle
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Post by neff on Jan 8, 2016 10:35:27 GMT -6
You know those enemies that saunter around and are basically a big punching bag made to die that take 15 seconds to attack, and even then its a measly arm swing?
Yeah, That.
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Cale
Great Old One
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The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jan 8, 2016 14:20:14 GMT -6
Teleports that cycle instead of a menu where you choose where to go.
It's not a huge deal but I would love to just pick where to teleport instead of waiting.
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Post by GenericSoda on Jan 8, 2016 15:13:13 GMT -6
If there's some kind of weapon/equipment loadout swapping option, it should be fast and snappy with no menu nonsense. I never used Dawn of Sorrow's because it felt so clunky to me, but OoE's feels fine.
A good option to cycle through equipment means the difference between Phantasy Star Online (fast, on the fly, overall very non-intrusive to gameplay) and Phantasy Star 0 (slow, you have to stand still, and it doesn't pause the gameplay).
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Post by Reiji Mitsurugi on Jan 8, 2016 17:44:43 GMT -6
Hello everyone. First post here. Been lurking around for a while I have to say I agree with GenericSoda. I played Phantasy Star Zero, Phantasy Star Online 1 and 2 and Phantasy Star Universe, and all of them except PS-0 had really great weapon-swapping controls. In fact I hope they do something akin to PSU/PSO2, where you could set up to 6 different weapons to a palette, which you sould easily bring up with a button and scroll up and down using the D-pad. On topic, there isn't much that annoys me in Igavania games. The only thing that bothers me sometimes is how rare some items are. I replayed OoE last moth and it I literally killed +150 Lorelais before she dropped the Merman Meat item. That to me is awful. I can only accept very low drop rates in MMORPGs where the economy plays a major role, but in my opinion in a singleplayer game no droprate should be lower than 5%, especially if it is just loot.
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Post by spideryfingers on Jan 8, 2016 18:12:34 GMT -6
Agree with most of the aforementioned ... particularly the repetitive copy/paste level design and using the stylus to seal boss fights in DoS (and breaking those damn ice blocks too).
Other issues I had with previous Igavanias were...
The ghosts. They were primarily in the form of small heads/skulls and all too easy to kill which, in my opinion, simply wasn't good enough.
Charlotte and Jonathan yelling together when they performed a Dual Crush spell in PoR. Cringeworthy!
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lod7
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Post by lod7 on Jan 8, 2016 21:43:52 GMT -6
100% ok with reused assets like the dual castle HoD and inverted castle. They both had enough visual appeal that I didn't mind. Portrait of ruin was probably the most noticeable but even then I still didn't mind. Although those extra areas in PoR had lots of reused enemies and i'm not talking about palette swaps, straight up reused from one portrait to the other.
On topic. least favorite parts were in AoS and DoS regarding the New game plus. By the end of the game you get this amazing ability to move 2-3x (black panther, speed up, or rapidus fio) faster and when you start a NG+ you lose that ability. And this isn't some progression ability like the double jump or super jump. As you would not be able to sequence break with these abilities except get certain items earlier. Thankfully PoR and OoE corrected this.
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on Jan 9, 2016 0:15:00 GMT -6
I am genuinely upset by the lack of dinosaurs and chicken. Especially chicken. Also where the heck are the monkeys?! Everything is better with monkeys! And before you say the skeletons or Gergoth, they don't count. I want ones that are alive! I want to fist fight a giant gorilla. I haven't done this since God Hand....
I highly doubt we'll be drawing anything on a PC game. Though I would feel bad for you guys if Iga decided to use the touch pad that way for the PS4.
I loved the speed of Aria of Sorrow, so when everything was rebalanced in Dawn and it was a MUCH slower game, I found myself getting more frustrated with it. I'm hoping Bloodstained is at least a decently paced game. It's like how I felt with Street Fighter 4, give me a Turbo mode!
Reused assets aren't a problem if you use them intelligently. A great example of this is the Yakuza series. It mostly takes place in one red light district, but the place changes from game to game in ways that relate to the story and the passage of time. They also throw in other locations in each game, but I never found the red light district stale. It felt like a piece of history that I was living.
However, the rooms in Castlevania being boxes for the most part has been a problem and I do hope that it won't be as prevalent. That can get dull quick.
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Redogan
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[TI0] Game On!
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Post by Redogan on Jan 9, 2016 17:33:27 GMT -6
Any platforming that requires pixel perfect timing of jumps should be left out (or pixel perfect timing of anything for that matter). I'm not worried about this for Bloodstained though, because IGA himself said he hated that kind of thing in the Miriam walk-animation clip.
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Post by crocodile on Jan 9, 2016 18:42:06 GMT -6
Copy & Paste environments and level design taken to their extreme are probably my least liked aspect that kept cropping up. I totally understand why (budget & time constraints) but it was still often meh. I'll also say, against the grain, that the platforming aspects were often a bit weak and could stand to be made stronger/a bit tougher. I was a big fan of the Training Grounds in Order of Ecclesia. Not everywhere in Bloodstained's castle needs/should be like that but some places would be nice.
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Post by Reiji Mitsurugi on Jan 9, 2016 18:49:28 GMT -6
Copy & Paste environments and level design taken to their extreme are probably my least liked aspect that kept cropping up. I totally understand why (budget & time constraints) but it was still often meh. I'll also say, against the grain, that the platforming aspects were often a bit weak and could stand to be made stronger/a bit tougher. I was a big fan of the Training Grounds in Order of Ecclesia. Not everywhere in Bloodstained's castle needs/should be like that but some places would be nice. Indeed, the Training Hall, being optional, was the the perfect solution. I'd love to see something like that in Bloodstained. Honestly it's a waste to get all those platforming skills (OoE had a lot of them) and never getting a proper challenge on how to use them.
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lod7
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Post by lod7 on Jan 9, 2016 19:44:42 GMT -6
Omg the training hall was my favorite part in that game. Specially once you got the redire and just use that with magnes to try and get faster times.
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Vampire
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[TI1]This world does not need another Hero.
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Post by Vampire on Jan 9, 2016 20:05:06 GMT -6
Ok so since a topic like this is important since it helps build a better game I am going to explain in detail to the best of my ability the things I hated in past castlevania games and hope that do not surface within this new game
We already covered the DS Stylus Pentagram sealing mechanic in Castlevania Dawn of sorrow,But I am just going to mention it again because it's such a pain and bad idea it deserves a mention...again,and I hope nothing similar happens in this game,even a puzzle for the castle done in such a manner would be a pain
I wanna state that I hated one Toy-Maker area in Castlevania Mirror of Fate for the 3ds,You play as Alucard in this area and this area is insane and will drive you mad,the area is connected to at least several other areas and thus is connection zone but is littered with spikes,electric floors,pitfalls,etc...and most of the time you need to use this whip upgrade to traverse the area via a trolley like pulley system,the whole area is basically one big puzzle on it's own but because you need to traverse so many time even one little mistake and your falling into multiple kinds of hurt...if you only had to visit this area once to get a very nice item,I wouldn't care,but the fact they make this a connection area which you must visit so many times just frustrated me to no end,I hated having to traverse it and I hated having to come back to it over and over again with avoiding spikes and doing roller-coasters all over the place,basically if your going to make an area you need to revisit several times don't make it in a such hazardous manner
In RPG side of terms,I hated things like Portrait of Ruin where you were given certain quests to accomplish,and your given them early on but oddly their quests that could not be completed till near the end of the game,so if theres quests in the game I would prefer their given around times they can be accomplished,I also hate grinding tediously for hours for a certain rare item,im all for rare items and rare discoveries in games,but when a item has a drop rate of maybe 1 in 200 that's...a real pain especially when you don't have any means to increase those odds
And I might be a little picky when I say this,I have no idea why but when it came to any metroidvania castlevania game potions were always expensive as it's weight in gold,their a basic survival tool and I know having too many of them can make the game too easy but the prices for them were almost always atrocious,if you had a mechanic in the game where you can farm for items and make your own potions or maybe have your own garden and craft healing items,then the high prices would not be as painful
The only other thing I can think of I would hate to have in the game is controls in which multiple actions are done with the same button,I don't think this was a problem is previous games...but i'm just throwing that out there,for instance I would hate it if attacking and climbing ladders was done with the same button
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Post by linkfreak404 on Jan 9, 2016 21:32:11 GMT -6
I always disliked the fact that some enemies in the Castlevania games had animations that would take so long to finish that they would end up dead before they used their attack. One example is in Portrait of Ruin, where a Malphas would take forever to gather all his crows together before he could attack. To me, it just makes me think that it was a waste of an enemy and basically free decent experience.
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Post by Reiji Mitsurugi on Jan 10, 2016 15:29:11 GMT -6
While the touchscreen gimmicks of DoS are awful and deserve all the hate they get, I don't think we need to worry about them, not even for the Vita/Wii U versions. DoS was fairly early in the DS life-cycle and they did that just for novelty, just so that you could say they made something out of the touchscreen which was a new thing for games at that point in history. You could see that as the DS Igavanias progressed, they used less and less gimmicks. In fact I don't think there's any obligatory touchscreen nonsense in OoE at all.
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Post by CastleDan on Jan 10, 2016 22:39:47 GMT -6
It's hard not to say level design because it's really a huge importance to IGAVANIA's and it was something that was lacking more and more as the games went on. Probably due to time constraints and pumping them out. Just lookin' at this - Compared to the very flat copy and past areas that felt a lot of times like flat hallway into a cool room, flat hallway into that same cool room.... Did SOTN, and Aria repeat rooms? Sure but the actual level design itself wasn't so flat and repetitive. The unique ratio was just much higher. The one thing that gives me hope about Bloodstained is that they seem to be giving the look and layout of the castle a lot of attention, doesn't feel like an afterthought.
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