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Post by Goobsausage on Mar 5, 2016 4:02:03 GMT -6
Folks, lets prove we are the best fanbase on the internet. Don't attack people's opinions. If something isn't wrong it doesn't need to be defended. It's not an attempt to be mean, but we're all scared we're not going to not get a US release if devs listen to the vocal minority. I admit I was angry, and I took part in the youtube slam fest, and I was wrong. I should have ignored it. I want to create a loving fanbase... "We're all scared"? I'm not scared because there's no reason to ban Bloodstained. It's not shaping up to be the next Doki Doki Majo Shinpan and it's not going to be that type of game, but we also live in a world where Kill la Kill is a thing that exists, got an English dub on Toonami, and is marketable enough for its own crate in a professional-looking anime-themed Loot Crate knockoff. One of the Kickstarter updates had a short explanation on why Miriam's model is the way it is, but I'm still pretty sure the developers are smart and mature enough to brush off dumb internet comments. It's good to get these feelings off your chest. However, I feel the whole situation around Miriam's breasts should be laced with comedy. Give it the "Hakuna Matata" treatment. Bruh, seriously. It would help provide a positive atmosphere in the fanbase for a game we all want to support. It's better to let positive thoughts jiggle around in one's mind, ma'am. Oh, Graham is my favorite Castlevania villain BTW.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 5, 2016 5:24:07 GMT -6
I'm not surprised, and not just because of youtube (which as mentioned is bound to have stuff like that). But Mighty no.9 already had a debacle involving everything that one hears about whenever you see the topic SJW (if you are one of those people who think anyone who simply uses the term is scum just bear in mind that I'm referring it as a topic, not to people. for example, even if there is no SJW-whatever taking place, the fact that people use it in whatever situation creates the topic at hand). People are getting more defensive against these situations because they see how damaging it has been in the past, and unfortunately every large 'side' has their own bad seeds, so some people over-react and take it too far....Then the other side tries to set those overreactions as the example of their entire demographic, and and... gah. If only people could be honest and not exagerate or sensationalize. If I recall the MN9 incident correctly, a lot of that drama was largely due them to having a community manager that purposefully obfuscated all communication between the community and the development team. Political leanings may have been a motive, but was not the actual problem. Of course, it didn't help that it happened right when Gamergate was at a full fever pitch, and cool headed discourse was in short supply anywhere. In contrast, we have Mana, who has been incredible, and a forum staffed by mods dedicated to maintaining a friendly environment for anyone who wants to participate. What happened with Mighty No 9 will not happen here. Youtube comments will be cancerous as it always is, but everyone knows that already, and no one is going to judge us as a community by that unmoderated cesspool.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 5, 2016 9:01:50 GMT -6
It's not an attempt to be mean, but we're all scared we're not going to not get a US release if devs listen to the vocal minority. I admit I was angry, and I took part in the youtube slam fest, and I was wrong. I should have ignored it. I want to create a loving fanbase... "We're all scared"? I'm not scared because there's no reason to ban Bloodstained. It's not shaping up to be the next Doki Doki Majo Shinpan and it's not going to be that type of game, but we also live in a world where Kill la Kill is a thing that exists, got an English dub on Toonami, and is marketable enough for its own crate in a professional-looking anime-themed Loot Crate knockoff. One of the Kickstarter updates had a short explanation on why Miriam's model is the way it is, but I'm still pretty sure the developers are smart and mature enough to brush off dumb internet comments. It's good to get these feelings off your chest. However, I feel the whole situation around Miriam's breasts should be laced with comedy. Give it the "Hakuna Matata" treatment. Bruh, seriously. It would help provide a positive atmosphere in the fanbase for a game we all want to support. It's better to let positive thoughts jiggle around in one's mind, ma'am. Oh, Graham is my favorite Castlevania villain BTW. Not that I disagree with anything you've said, but dimlitcandle is more personally affected as a female gamer than you or I and she should express her opinion how she feels best. People's opinions don't need to be attacked, but it's good to keep in mind that the vocal few that want Miriam's breasts to be smaller make it sound like the voice of female gamers. Feeling misrepresented in that regard would naturally put someone on the defensive. The "we are all scared" comment might not speak as everyone, but I think this comes from a legitimate perspective when you see how Japan is altering what games get published in the West and the content of their games. Maybe we aren't scared exactly, but as a gamer I certainly am concerned with how gender politics affect things. As a side note, I feel people should be celebrating that the main character of Bloodstained is female, not complaining about her breasts. It's similar to how people should be celebrating that the Ghostbusters will all be women instead of complaining that the black Ghostbuster isn't a scientist. It seems like the more intention an artist has to accommodate some sort of social or political correctness the more they are doomed to fail. If people wish to share their opinion that they are somehow disappointed in Miriam's breast size, I'm just gonna let them do that, but I'm also going to state my opinion that I think she's a cool character and I don't want to see any changes. I like what Natsume San has done, but he is a male artist. Would people be like this if Ayami Kojima had designed Miriam? Probably, and as a long time fan of her art I would probably want to get defensive about it. Art shouldn't be restricted, it should be enjoyed as a unique reflection of the artist's mind and talents. If something doesn't resonate with a consumer they should still respect it to a polite degree. This is the Internet though, and just as I feel the powerful need to correct someone for your vs you're, every bit of communication is filtered with a desire to correct people. Like I'm kinda doing now. Sorry Goob... Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said... Jeez, sometimes I feel like I shouldn't really be talking about this stuff. Sorry for the rant.
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Post by ReySol on Mar 5, 2016 10:02:37 GMT -6
I would prefer a male protagonist in the game. Lately Castlevania had a lot of female main characters..Shanoa in the last game, Charlotte together with Jonathan in the one before that (Portrait also had a mode with 2 sisters). Fortunately, Bloodstained will have more than one playable character so everyone will be satisfied. I really like Zangetsu and I hope he will be a playable character, he is my favorite so far. I still like the story that IGA is making in Bloodstained, and I am happy with everything so far. Back on the controversial subject, I prefer Miriam with smaller breast, hehe..that is a thing of taste.
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Mar 5, 2016 14:58:34 GMT -6
I would prefer a male protagonist in the game. I like to identify to some degree with the character I'm playing. As a male, I have a hard time enjoying games with a female lead because I can't put myself into their shoes. But, if the story is all about a girl with a crystal curse, then we need to play as the girl with the crystal curse. I won't be able to identify with Miriam on certain levels, but we'll see how it turns out. The gameplay might just be too darn good to care whether I identify with the main or not. I foresee myself listening to the music, looking at the background, and trying out the weapons a lot more than spending time wondering about Miriam's character. (Can't lie though, I will be checking her out to some degree....male here...can't help it. )
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Post by crocodile on Mar 5, 2016 15:08:25 GMT -6
"We're all scared"? I'm not scared because there's no reason to ban Bloodstained. It's not shaping up to be the next Doki Doki Majo Shinpan and it's not going to be that type of game, but we also live in a world where Kill la Kill is a thing that exists, got an English dub on Toonami, and is marketable enough for its own crate in a professional-looking anime-themed Loot Crate knockoff. One of the Kickstarter updates had a short explanation on why Miriam's model is the way it is, but I'm still pretty sure the developers are smart and mature enough to brush off dumb internet comments. It's good to get these feelings off your chest. However, I feel the whole situation around Miriam's breasts should be laced with comedy. Give it the "Hakuna Matata" treatment. Bruh, seriously. It would help provide a positive atmosphere in the fanbase for a game we all want to support. It's better to let positive thoughts jiggle around in one's mind, ma'am. Oh, Graham is my favorite Castlevania villain BTW. Not that I disagree with anything you've said, but dimlitcandle is more personally affected as a female gamer than you or I and she should express her opinion how she feels best. People's opinions don't need to be attacked, but it's good to keep in mind that the vocal few that want Miriam's breasts to be smaller make it sound like the voice of female gamers. Feeling misrepresented in that regard would naturally put someone on the defensive. The "we are all scared" comment might not speak as everyone, but I think this comes from a legitimate perspective when you see how Japan is altering what games get published in the West and the content of their games. Maybe we aren't scared exactly, but as a gamer I certainly am concerned with how gender politics affect things. As a side note, I feel people should be celebrating that the main character of Bloodstained is female, not complaining about her breasts. It's similar to how people should be celebrating that the Ghostbusters will all be women instead of complaining that the black Ghostbuster isn't a scientist. It seems like the more intention an artist has to accommodate some sort of social or political correctness the more they are doomed to fail. If people wish to share their opinion that they are somehow disappointed in Miriam's breast size, I'm just gonna let them do that, but I'm also going to state my opinion that I think she's a cool character and I don't want to see any changes. I like what Natsume San has done, but he is a male artist. Would people be like this if Ayami Kojima had designed Miriam? Probably, and as a long time fan of her art I would probably want to get defensive about it. Art shouldn't be restricted, it should be enjoyed as a unique reflection of the artist's mind and talents. If something doesn't resonate with a consumer they should still respect it to a polite degree. This is the Internet though, and just as I feel the powerful need to correct someone for your vs you're, every bit of communication is filtered with a desire to correct people. Like I'm kinda doing now. Sorry Goob... Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said... Jeez, sometimes I feel like I shouldn't really be talking about this stuff. Sorry for the rant. I strongly agree with this post with the caveat that A) If an artist tries to be more socially progressive in response to consumers but misses the mark in some way, they are not immune to criticism (this of course doesn't apply to Bloodstained, I'm just speaking in general) B) "Gender politics" has been a boon to the video game industry as a whole. Female characters do need more leading roles, do need to be written better and do need more variety in their designs. I think the discussions that have followed in the industry have done a lot to address those issues and I expect that to continue moving forward. That doesn't mean that said discussions don't sometimes get awkward or, unfortunately, ugly on both sides though Anyway, with that in mind, I was very happy and celebratory that IGA and crew went with a leading lady for this game (in fact I kinda hope one of the other two playable characters is also a woman and I would be fine if all the playable characters are female), and that is where I want to spend most of my energy in terms of discussing this game. I absolutely respect that a few may have issues with her design but you can't please everybody and I find a lot of their arguments problematic so, like you, I'm opposed to any change. When there is more about the game to discuss and/or some alt costumes are revealed, those voices will likely be calmed (note how this topic basically disappeared online when we were busy talking about shaders last update). @ Primordial Rabbit: the comment section in most Youtube videos just straight up suck. I haven't been there but I will agree with you that is unfortunate that some people are not able to disagree with others without using ad homeium attacks, poor logic, a unnecessarily confrontational tone, etc. However, they don't represent "the fanbase". The vast majority of people I've discussed this game with online (here or elsewhere) or seen talk about the game have been courteous and respectful. I would say that's also true of the Kickstarter comment section though maybe I missed something especially stupid. Don't let vocal minorities (those who have issues with Miriam's design or those who don't but are unable to act like adults) confuse you and lead you to faulty assumptions about groups of people.
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Post by ghaleon on Mar 5, 2016 15:11:25 GMT -6
I'm not surprised, and not just because of youtube (which as mentioned is bound to have stuff like that). But Mighty no.9 already had a debacle involving everything that one hears about whenever you see the topic SJW (if you are one of those people who think anyone who simply uses the term is scum just bear in mind that I'm referring it as a topic, not to people. for example, even if there is no SJW-whatever taking place, the fact that people use it in whatever situation creates the topic at hand). People are getting more defensive against these situations because they see how damaging it has been in the past, and unfortunately every large 'side' has their own bad seeds, so some people over-react and take it too far....Then the other side tries to set those overreactions as the example of their entire demographic, and and... gah. If only people could be honest and not exagerate or sensationalize. If I recall the MN9 incident correctly, a lot of that drama was largely due them to having a community manager that purposefully obfuscated all communication between the community and the development team. Political leanings may have been a motive, but was not the actual problem. Of course, it didn't help that it happened right when Gamergate was at a full fever pitch, and cool headed discourse was in short supply anywhere. In contrast, we have Mana, who has been incredible, and a forum staffed by mods dedicated to maintaining a friendly environment for anyone who wants to participate. What happened with Mighty No 9 will not happen here. Youtube comments will be cancerous as it always is, but everyone knows that already, and no one is going to judge us as a community by that unmoderated cesspool. I think you misunderstand my point... My point isn't that X=Y because Bloodstained has X in Common with Mighty No.9... it's that people are quick on the defensive reactions because they perceive things being similar to things during mighty no.9, so they are like OH @%#@#% NO NOT AGAIN! Even if things aren't really the same.
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Post by Goobsausage on Mar 5, 2016 15:49:44 GMT -6
(Stuff snipped for space.) Art shouldn't be restricted, it should be enjoyed as a unique reflection of the artist's mind and talents. If something doesn't resonate with a consumer they should still respect it to a polite degree. This is the Internet though, and just as I feel the powerful need to correct someone for your vs you're, every bit of communication is filtered with a desire to correct people. Like I'm kinda doing now. Sorry Goob... Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said... Jeez, sometimes I feel like I shouldn't really be talking about this stuff. Sorry for the rant. That's okay Mike, I still love you. People who know me personally have pointed out there are times when I can come off as being dense or dismissive when I'm trying to be helpful, and it wasn't my intention to sweep Dimiltcandle's opinions under the rug. I also appreciate you pointing out all the other things you said.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 5, 2016 17:26:19 GMT -6
If I recall the MN9 incident correctly, a lot of that drama was largely due them to having a community manager that purposefully obfuscated all communication between the community and the development team. Political leanings may have been a motive, but was not the actual problem. Of course, it didn't help that it happened right when Gamergate was at a full fever pitch, and cool headed discourse was in short supply anywhere. In contrast, we have Mana, who has been incredible, and a forum staffed by mods dedicated to maintaining a friendly environment for anyone who wants to participate. What happened with Mighty No 9 will not happen here. Youtube comments will be cancerous as it always is, but everyone knows that already, and no one is going to judge us as a community by that unmoderated cesspool. I think you misunderstand my point... My point isn't that X=Y because Bloodstained has X in Common with Mighty No.9... it's that people are quick on the defensive reactions because they perceive things being similar to things during mighty no.9, so they are like OH @%#@#% NO NOT AGAIN! Even if things aren't really the same. That was inevitable due to Inti Creates involvement with both games, but that will change. In fact it already has on these forums at least. People were citing MN9 back when Shaders 1 & 2 were shown with the initial mock-up background, but that stopped when we got the more detailed background along with Shaders 1 & 3, and even people who dislike Shader 3 haven't tried to bring Inti Creates back up as a scapegoat. Bloodstained is its own thing, as was MN9, and in time that will become apparent even to the most cynical gamers.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 10, 2016 0:29:49 GMT -6
Yeah, um...my piece is that Miriam is cool. That's all I got. Whatever on everything else. Youtube comment people just have a lot of time/make a hobby of messing with people, most likely regardless of what they actually think on the subject.
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Post by Gomorrah on Mar 10, 2016 0:54:29 GMT -6
I wonder if IGA will add some physics to Miriam's bust. I mean, those are not made entirely of magi-crystals, right? ...sorry I'm sleepy.
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Post by Count Dracula on Mar 10, 2016 10:17:53 GMT -6
The last 3D model of Miriam is fantastic! I can't wait to play the game!
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Post by blankslatenator on Mar 11, 2016 20:12:43 GMT -6
Don't even worry about Nintendo of America will tone things down upon localization. Then just buy that version on Wii. Thanks Nintendo!
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Post by LunaClefairy on Mar 11, 2016 20:17:52 GMT -6
Don't even worry about Nintendo of America will tone things down upon localization. Then just buy that version on Wii. Thanks Nintendo! Please don't make bad jokes about Nintendo's localization. This is not the time or place for that. Besides, I see nothing about Miriam that would need to be toned down, even in Nintendo's book. She is dressed very tastefully, and her bust is perfectly reasonable. If Bayonetta could make it into Smash without her outfit being censored, I don't see Miriam having any issues.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Mar 11, 2016 20:23:22 GMT -6
Don't even worry about Nintendo of America will tone things down upon localization. Then just buy that version on Wii. Thanks Nintendo! Please don't make bad jokes about Nintendo's localization. This is not the time or place for that. Besides, I see nothing about Miriam that would need to be toned down, even in Nintendo's book. She is dressed very tastefully, and her bust is perfectly reasonable. If Bayonetta could make it into Smash without her outfit being censored, I don't see Miriam having any issues. Well...I forgot about that. That's right. Bayonetta actually did manage to not have her outfit censored by NoA, not only in Smash 4, but in the NA localization of Bayonetta 2.
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Post by yoshi9048 on Mar 12, 2016 16:24:29 GMT -6
I am personally disgusted with the idea that anything that falls out of a norm is considered "unnatural". There are plenty of real women, in the real world with real occupations that have a slender figure with large breasts and I don't want to have to console my wife one day because suddenly her breasts which she didn't have a choice in growing now make her a freak.
This is something I see growing in popular trends. Girls with large breasts being targeted in game streams and called sluts because they are in the comfort of their home wearing a tank top and want to stream just like the boys or that Tifa does not conform to "realistic proportions". I guess the problem here is that people don't even know WHAT realistic means before demanding proportions be set to stereotypical mob-pandering. It's gone so far from over/hyper-sexualization to anti-sexualism. People should just get a grip.
OR... this is a strange thought, maybe we should allow an artist to have artistic license.
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Post by maelxich on Mar 13, 2016 18:22:01 GMT -6
As far as I can tell she has always been busty. There are only a few official pics where she is not most have her busty. Either they always intended her to be busty and some art did not show it properly or they decided she was better this way. I do not care either way but if the devs like her better busty then so do I.
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Astaroth
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What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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Post by Astaroth on Mar 13, 2016 19:18:31 GMT -6
OR... this is a strange thought, maybe we should allow an artist to have artistic license. le GASP!!!! madness i say... pure madness!... i approve >3>b
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Post by roland84 on Mar 27, 2016 13:01:15 GMT -6
That's okay!
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Post by samuraifoochs on Mar 27, 2016 16:10:46 GMT -6
I for one am fine with Miriam being busty. I acknowledge why some people find it problematic and do not wish to downplay this. I also acknowledge my own likely semi-conscious biases as a "red-blooded" heteronormative man with no real stake in the matter other than the fact that I strive to be a feminist and/or feminist ally whenever possible and try to support those who express concerns over certain things in the game industry.
That said, it's not like it's pornographic or so absurd so as to fall under DOA territory. I've seen ladies in reality shaped completely naturally almost exactly like Miriam. Furthermore, I have always felt there are times when the more attention you give something relatively innocuous, the more damaging power you give it (I say this as a disabled man and rights advocate who frequently converses with colleagues about the issues surrounding "non-person first language). Besides, who's to say there aren't going to be some beefcake enemies somewhere or that one of the other PCs won't have some eye candy for the ladies and/or some of the fellas? Go to it, I say! Equal opportunity.
Sidenote: I do hope at least one PC is male. I think having three PCs all the same gender would be disappointing either way.
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