Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 7, 2015 12:47:39 GMT -6
Okey, this can be something a little more boring for some people, but i think it is something that we could discuss a little and hope the dev team looks and thinks about the leveling system of our already loved Bloodstained: Ritual of the night.
Since Symphony of the Night, most castlevania games had some sort of level progression. Basically, you kill monsters, farm exp points and level up, increasing your stats. Some games also had stat-increasing itens. I want to know the opinion of our beloved community on what kind of level up system you want.
How to level up?
The Traditional way (Aria and Dawn of Sorrow, for example). Miriam kills demons, gains exp and when she gains a certain number of points, a "Level up!" message pops up and she gains more points on her stats. This level progression is fixed (with maybe a few randomic numbers, like Symphony of the Night). You go from Level 1 to 99 (or to 255, who knows...) and that's it.
The Itens only way (Lament of Innocence). The game has no exp or levels whatsoever. You kill demons because you need to do it, since you need the gold and itens they drop. You can increase your stats only by equipment and by getting itens hidden in the game. (Lament was locked to HP, MP and Hearts that could be increased, but i'm assuming a more broader option, with other stats-increasing itens).
Traditional way + Itens (Most castlevania games). Exatly like the above, but you can also find stats-increasing itens, like Life Max Up (increases HP) or itens that increase your power over specific stats or elements (like drops on Order of Ecclesia, that could increase Shanoa's power on elements).
Customizable way (None). Miriam kills demons, gains exp and when she gains a level, YOU need to put the points where you want, customizing her progression.
A new idea. have any other ideas? Comment below =)
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Post by allooutrick on Dec 7, 2015 14:11:37 GMT -6
Items only and finding stat upgrades lying around would be interesting. Being able to take a minute or two to grind the materials you need to craft that new piece of gear without making it obsolete for the reason you need it for (being able to beat a challenging boss, make it to the next save point with a greater level of ease) because you leveled up a few times getting the materials. Then if that still doesn't work for you, or doesn't suit you, then the stat upgrades laying around could give a much needed boost
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Post by GenericSoda on Dec 7, 2015 15:09:23 GMT -6
I'd love to see a variant of Julius Mode from Aria of Sorrow, where your stats wouldn't increase at all but instead whenever you beat a boss, all of the enemies in that boss' area would get weaker. This would probably be best when combined with Lament of Innocence's style, where you'd get items that would grant new abilities relating to movement and exploration. HP ups would be interesting to add in too, but they should be well-hidden.
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BalancedHydra
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Post by BalancedHydra on Dec 7, 2015 17:32:51 GMT -6
I'm not really much of a fan of the item progression method. One of the things I hate about Harmony of Despair is your dependency on equipment to get better stats or nifty stuff. I literally spent weeks farming the speedy boots but due to rotten luck, I never got them and I went "f*** it. I'm not playing this game anymore."
This is the inherit flaw of item based stat progression. You're dependent on drop %, in-game luck and personal luck as well. If anything, such method should be complementary. Never the focus.
On that note. I would love to have a stat point system like Diablo 1 and 2 or Shin Megami Tensei 4. We all get to build Miriam however we want her to.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 8, 2015 2:10:06 GMT -6
As far as i recall, Julius mode on Aria of Sorrow, does not make all enemies in a area weaker. What it does is increase all Julius's stats when you get the red sphere after killing a boss.
I think the best leveling system, for me, is the hybrid that most castlevanias had. You kill monsters, gain exp to level up, and you can also find stat-upgrading item (HP max and MP max could be the main ones). After a certain level, all monsters below that level starts to give less exp, to cut excessive grinding. It is something like Symphony of the Night, but i still think the game should be a little harder to make leveling up something fun and rewarding.
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Post by Ghalion on Dec 8, 2015 3:48:25 GMT -6
I like it when you get points to spend as you level... And not one point per level on a skilltree... Skilltrees always suck imo, they never ever end up being very balanced at all imo, and result in some brain dead best builds.
I prefer ones like you get 10 points to spend on the primary stats kinda leveling up. Or like fallout 1-2. Etc. This style lets you play the game again with different builds that ARE more balanced more often than not, and makes it feel like an entirely different character to play as.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 8, 2015 8:37:02 GMT -6
Yeah, you could make this a poll actually.
I like the "traditional + items" way, myself, standard levels up plus the Lfe Max Ups you get from bosses/hidden areas.
However, if they do something more customizable, I'd like it if they implement some kind of interesting subsystem with that. Like, say, if you spend those points to strengthen your offensive power, the strength of the curse in turn also increases bit by bit. Since we're using 3D models now, perhaps a petal here and there would show up on Miriam gradually, to the point where if you max her out purely magically/offensively, she's almost covered in crystal.
Perhaps powering her up defensively places the curse in relative remission/recedes it, balancing or reducing the curse's effects from your offensive stat increases.
Alternatively, those same points could instead be used in the alchemic process to enhance items. You don't have the curse to worry about, but the caveat here is that you're committing yourself to one item. It may be fire-based and not so useful against a dragon monster. You could break down the components to return some of the investment, but that destroys the item.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 8, 2015 10:30:03 GMT -6
Well, poll added as purifyweirdsoul recommended! And i did like what you said, but i still stick with the traditional plus itens.
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Zankoukanshokai
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Post by Zankoukanshokai on Dec 8, 2015 15:54:19 GMT -6
I prefer Traditional + Items. Items that increase HP and MP really help a lot. It also kinda gives me an incentive to thoroughly explore the castle. As far as leveling goes, I like to keep it that way.
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Post by ghaleon on Dec 9, 2015 5:03:15 GMT -6
However, if they do something more customizable, I'd like it if they implement some kind of interesting subsystem with that. Like, say, if you spend those points to strengthen your offensive power, the strength of the curse in turn also increases bit by bit. Since we're using 3D models now, perhaps a petal here and there would show up on Miriam gradually, to the point where if you max her out purely magically/offensively, she's almost covered in crystal. I like customizable systems, and I imagine most people like me who do do not like the idea of having non-customizable side-effects forced onto our choices... it makes you feel like you are being told to choose one way over another, killing the whole enjoyment of free choice. Side effects and consequences should be caused by the choices we make, not by something that happens to counter our choices. |
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Post by Astaroth on Dec 10, 2015 15:11:27 GMT -6
Im partial to level+items, but that lvls reset on ng+ and mastery (if its in) you get the choice to reset for a harder game or keep for an easier one
That coupled with my xp/gold/mastery freezing relics suggestion would give you a huge amount of control in how easy or difficult your game is based on your preference
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Post by GenericSoda on Dec 13, 2015 10:18:56 GMT -6
As far as i recall, Julius mode on Aria of Sorrow, does not make all enemies in a area weaker. What it does is increase all Julius's stats when you get the red sphere after killing a boss. I know, that's why I said a variant of Julius mode in my post. I'm a bit tired of the traditional methods of leveling since they're everywhere. I feel like the Julius mode variant would feel the most like a classic-style Castlevania while minimizing the frustration of backtracking (after all, nobody wants to backtrack through Castlevania 1's Medusa hallway). Plus, I feel like giving a huge reward for beating a boss in the form of weakening the enemies in that area would be very cathartic without making the player spend extra time leveling up. Honestly, my ideal style of game would emphasize Ecclesia-style combat with Adventure Rebirth's jumping and movement with IGAvania exploration, and I feel like Julius mode's style of leveling would complement that style of gameplay the most. Adding in stuff like double jumps as rewards for exploring and beating bosses would make exploration easier and add more variance to combat. I feel like Julius mode's greatest prize is the ability to head straight to the boss, and by keeping similar ideas but making it tougher to explore without double jumps would both make beating bosses more rewarding and skipping them to take harder routes directly to specific areas more rewarding for speedruns. By removing the "leveling" aspect of Julius mode's bosses and instead making areas easier to backtrack through, it's more of a challenge to navigate through areas without needing to spend time leveling. My problem with Julius mode is that Graham is a time-consuming slog if you choose not to beat any bosses, and I feel like the style of leeling I have in mind would remove the frustration while keeping the challenge. |
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Post by Maker on Dec 21, 2015 15:22:23 GMT -6
While I'm sure we've all thought about this. What about not leveling? Items ala SotN such as mist and what not give you mobility upgrades but raw stats don't change. Gear however could make a bigger difference. Caseiin point from SotN is the Galamoth fight while not super hard the beryl circlet makes that fight a joke. That's always been a key feature even going back to the idea that certain sub weapons work better against some bosses. Classic example of the axe vs bat etc. While I don't particularly know how this would be implemented exactly I feel like if there is a basic leveling system and this idea is not implemented there needs to be a pretty reasonable level cap.
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Post by ghaleon on Dec 21, 2015 21:39:18 GMT -6
Personally I never really cared for the whole super specialized equipment route... it isn't challenging or high-end tactical or anything, more of a matter of if you think it's worth the time/effort to menu-hop every reasonably tough fight or so to slap on gear just for that encounter.
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Post by pato on Dec 23, 2015 9:31:54 GMT -6
I would enjoy custom Miriam build so that each play though would be different, like one run do melee another would be SP third could be a tank that hits slow and powerful with customizing there's a more personal feel to the game that you didn't have with set level up and stat gains like the other IGAvanias
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Jan 8, 2016 11:26:01 GMT -6
I was just looking for a thread about the RPG elements in the game. This one is pretty close.
I was just wondering about how the RPG elements should be implemented. I feel that the RPG portion of the game's mechanic should be on the light side. It should be really easy to handle the stats and not time consuming. For me, the customizable stat points is a no-go. I'm hoping for something like this:
Level Cap @ 99.
-Stats:
-HP: amount of health points
-MP: amount of magic points
-Atk: amount of melee attack points
-Magic Atk: amount of magical melee attack points
-Def: amount of defense points based on armor equips
-Magic Def: amount of magic defense points mased on armor equips
-Mind: amount of spell points to determine power of magic spells
-Crystal Curse: special stat to determine how far along the curse is (only increases in certain ways)
-Traditional style leveling + items: kill enemies to gain XP, level up message pops overhead, stats go up
-HP and MP go up as well when you level up; however, you can also find HP Max UP, MP Max UP, Mind Up, Atk UP, Magic Atk UP, Def UP, Magic Def UP, etc, as hidden items
-Armor (equips don't show up on character--see costumes) gives: def stat, magic def stat
-head piece
-abdomen
-arms
-legs
-Weapon (equips are reflected on-screen) gives: atk stat, magic atk stat
-example: Fire Longsword (72 Atk, 30 Fire Atk)
-left hand
-right hand
-Accessory gives: mind stat
-Costumes: equipping a costume changes the on-screen model and boosts various stats by certain amounts; costumes can be worn along side regular armor
-example Pure Miriam costume: become Pure Miriam on-screen and receive +5 to all stats
-example Plague Miriam costume: Plague Knight mask plus other aesthetic changes and receive +20 Mind, +20 Magic Atk, +10 Magic Def, -15 Def, -5 Atk
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That is pretty much as far as I want the RPG elements to go. It should be as simple as equip a weapon, check the damage and move on. Same goes for armor and costumes. Check how they look (costumes) and how they help your stats and move on.
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