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Post by Motoko on Sept 15, 2015 14:36:52 GMT -6
The Old Hunters:Hello, Bloodborne fans. Thanks to the tremendous support from all of you, the passionate Bloodborne community, we are very proud to announce that Bloodborne has now sold through more than 2 million* units worldwide.It is on the heels of this milestone that we can confirm that the highly anticipated expansion for Bloodborne is almost upon us. The wait is almost over, and a new nightmare is almost here… Starting November 24th, download the Bloodborne DLC expansion The Old Hunters for $19.99 and experience the nightmare of the hunters who once guarded Byrgenwerth’s darkest secrets. Set in a nightmare world where hunters from the past are trapped forever, explore brand new stages full of dangers, rewards, and deadly beasts to overcome. You’ll find multiple new outfits and weapons to add to your arsenal as well as additional magic to wield and add more variety to your combat strategy. With new story details, learn the tale of hunters who once made Yharnam their hunting grounds, meet new NPCs, and discover another side of the history and world of Bloodborne. Here’s a brief glimpse of just some of what lies in store for you when The Old Hunters launches on November 24th, including Simon’s Bowblade weapon, and new boss enemy Ludwig.
SourceTrailer: I am HYPE. @________________________@. I need this, now.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 15, 2015 14:46:37 GMT -6
mmmmmmmm I was planning on getting the next ending I wanted when the DLC came out, but sounds like the DLC may add another one/more? I don't want to watch the trailer at work, but I'm curious how bows will work since there wasn't really a system for that before. Also, it'd be great if there was more along the lines of actual magic. Not really all that many weapon -classes- were absent from Bloodborne, so I'm curiuos what they'll be adding... I mean, trick weapons aren't the easiest things to conceptualize, I imagine lol. Something Castlevania-y just crossed my mind, but then I realized I was basically picturing the Combat Cross. hahahaha
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Post by gunlord500 on Sept 15, 2015 17:27:07 GMT -6
I'll probably get it, though I've been somewhat disappointed with Bloodborne generally...
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 15, 2015 17:34:31 GMT -6
Been playing since Demon's Souls. I don't get why everyone says these games should be goty every time. No evolution, it is basically Demon's Souls with better graphics each time and they are starting to churn them out. I can't believe DS3 will be out in March. Not too eager to drop $20 on dlc when I could buy a full game for that. -This message brought to you by Buzz Killington.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 16, 2015 7:34:33 GMT -6
haha, I mean you could say that about any game series. They generally upgrade graphics, have different story and setting, keep basic gameplay but mix around weapons and mechanics. That goes for almost every sequel that has ever been made.
One of the greatest things about these games is what they stand for, and what they have accomplished. They are basically Japanese-made Western RPGs that are a far, far departure from the average cinematic experience QTE game, F2P or game with the common mantra of "MORE accessible" behind it through the entire development cycle. It thrives off of being the apparent opposite of what a lot of core gamers don't like about current gaming trends, but they also manage to be modern and convenient endeavors while still retaining difficulty.
One example: auto saving. It's a modern convenience, but it also for the most part means your game is very low risk. You don't have to ever worry about consequences when you always have a save ~1 minute behind when you walked into an area. Say you're playing an Elder Scrolls game, and you're not a thief build at all, but you want to be an ass and steal something. You fail to steal from the guy for the first attempt, but you can just sink a little more time into trying again and re-loading your save repeatedly until you actually take it and get away. The same applies for anything, anywhere you would be trying to do something you probably shouldn't be.
Now, Souls games. You get your auto-save, but it's not so much there as your safety net so you can be a moron. No, instead it's the opposite--the very enforcer of responsibility. Everything you do saves, and you can't go back and reload it, it's already done. So you thought you would be a hard ass and kill the NPCs in town, well...now you can't buy anything, and on top of that, the game's multiplayer system will likely mark you to be hunted by other players for your misdeeds. This may sound like death is more punishing than usual, but actually it's not at all - you normally won't lose anything. You keep the items you picked up and you have a fair shot at getting back the money/EXP you picked up. The best thing about death, though, is that you should have learned something - and that's perhaps the best thing about these games. You have to learn them. There's no way around it.
You can be one of these guys that reads up on gamefaqs/watches a tutorial for what to do before you even play the game/get to that area, but studying and knowing how other people beat things in the game won't be enough. You still have to actually execute the gameplay, which even when you do have x/y secret boss weakness, isn't usually a cake walk. I think it's also great how wikis generally list out a bunch of different discovered methods against bosses, further showing how there's probably no one way to do something. You can beat the thing how you want to if you keep at it, learn what the boss does, where you might can parry, etc.
There's also the feeling of discovery in these games...man, the first time I found Ash Lake...but yeah, the way the game doesn't hand you the story at all and leaves so many things up for fan interpretation is great. Rather than watching a bunch of cutscenes with linear, heavy-handed sociopolitical commentary or whatever else, Souls games present their stories and background in a subtle and eventual manner, the player coming to their own conclusions from reading about items, looking at his surroundings and the enemies he fights. Things being so open-ended like this allows the player to more accurately roleplay their character as well.
That's just a few things, without going into the gameplay itself. One of the biggest things is just how they're so conceptually different than the norm, but pull it off so well with the mix of Western/Eastern that they can be successful. Any other hard game would just be a hard game largely ignroed by the media.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 16, 2015 9:23:35 GMT -6
Being that the stories in these games are really bare-bones and the Bloodstained endings were pretty generic I just don't see any true evolution. While most games may function like that I think a goty game should be something groundbreaking, something that is pushing the boundaries of how games are played. That's all I meant by that. About the autosave and it being an rpg I have some thoughts. I understand it is an rpg but it really feels more like an arcade game (set for infinite lives) with rpg leveling and weapons. The autosave may seem like it is there to give new gamers the sense of difficulty but the areas are all designed to be pretty short (I feel we had pretty much the same thoughts on this). You may die in them but you are essentially trying to get far enough to do whatever it is that activates the shortcut (pull a lever/push a switch) which then gives you fairly quick access to the boss. Considering it isn't a rogue-like where you lose your loot (souls are easy to come by) abusing a save system would be pointless imo and I believe the autosave is there so you don't waste your time. It is like the game is saying "You'll learn to play it better if you simply repeat. If something worked, do it again. If something didn't, change your route/strategy". Boss-fight wise I feel like Bloodborne decided difficulty meant not testing. I felt insane fighting a boss using the same strategy of "stay against them" or "stay under them". There didn't really seem to be any variation. The boss designs were cool but the fights all felt essentially the same to me. I'm trying to think of a boss where you could really keep your distance and have them not react in an extremely aggressive long-reach spam mode but I can't (maybe one of the chalice dungeon ones). When you get against them they flail about and are easy to get behind. Also trying to play in coop is horrible. In a game where reaction time matters it amazes me how poorly the game plays online. As for the eastern/western thing I think we have come a long way since those terms were relevant. I pretty much only see jrpg used when a Japanese made game can't stand on its own merit so they have to claim they are a jrpg which somehow puts them on equal footing with some masterpiece like SotN. That being said I am not saying the souls games are doing this, I just feel like the terms have blended to the point where it is odd to say something is a jrpg. Creative people who make games are never bound by these antiquated "regional" perspectives. Creating something groundbreaking and being from the east or west should give credit to you and not your race/region. I don't have much to say about the story since it is a matter of opinion but I will say there is a fine line between open ended and barely there. I always loved to be able to figure things out for myself even if you could never be 100% sure of the answer. With these games the story is barely there for the most part. Fun yes, but when I add up all these things about the game and see that it is becoming Assassin's Creed (fightin' round the world, where to next year?) I just feel like it is overrated. Still good and fun, but basically an arcade game that you can't actually fail at (which imo makes it one of the easiest arcade games of all time). These are just my opinions and it is not my intention to spit vitriol at something you like. I have the games myself and, having played many games, this is how I feel.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 16, 2015 10:21:11 GMT -6
I don't mean Western/Eastern in visual design, anime/not anime or something silly like that. I'm talking about how the game plays, basically an action D&D game. Created characters, player-chosen stats instead of set or random stat increases, real time battle system, etc. There is indeed more or less the dark fantasy/macabre realism of the game, too, which stands out.
I've never used the term JRPG myself. An RPG is an RPG. There are usually certain design choices tied to the respective regions, though. It's because of games like this that the lines are blurring, like you said. It's great that they're coming together.
You could think of it as an arcade game with unlimited lives, I suppose...but there are still consequences for your actions enough so that you will find yourself cautiously walking through the game. If someone were to play it like an arcade game with a lives cheat (i.e. run through it and mash buttons), they would no doubt kill themselves somewhere in the thousands. You have to manage your souls/blood. You have to learn what you're doing. If a death did cause loss of progress in the current system, then that would really make it pretty rough though...
Boss fights in Bloodborne all felt mostly the same probably because what they did was focus on only one combat style. You have to in-close melee everything, so of course you'll be just under/behind the boss the majority of the time to do damage. Their decision was to flesh out and expound upon the melee combat of the game, speeding up the mobility and refining what was already there, adding moves and options to it, but taking away the shield to keep the pace faster. What you're describing is a Souls game thing, where you can do your main damage with projectiles or magic. Bloodborne is a different beast, a game centered around fast echanges and dodging.
Even so, there are just as many stay under/behind bosses as there are ones where you have to play differently. Think about how different these are, for instance: Nikolash, Rom, Gascoigne, The One Reborn, Celestial Emissary (the weird blue alien boss), Witch of Hemwick, Shadows of Yharnam.
All of those have their own "thing" to them, and I know you definitely weren't on/under them the whole time.
As far as the story, yeah, there again that doesn't bother me at all. It's gotta be understandable how some might enjoy there not being narrated cutscenes between everything, huge background info databases and all that. These games, they show you something profoundly weird and you ask "What the heck is going on here...?!", which to me and people that think alike, make it much more interesting than a couple of hours of dialogue could. This also ties into how Bloodborne goes against the norm. I mean, it's nice to just play a game.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 16, 2015 10:53:20 GMT -6
You could think of it as an arcade game with unlimited lives, I suppose...but there are still consequences for your actions enough so that you will find yourself cautiously walking through the game. If someone were to play it like an arcade game with a lives cheat (i.e. run through it and mash buttons), they would no doubt kill themselves somewhere in the thousands. You have to manage your souls/blood. You have to learn what you're doing. If a death did cause loss of progress in the current system, then that would really make it pretty rough though... Even so, there are just as many stay under/behind bosses as there are ones where you have to play differently. Think about how different these are, for instance: Nikolash, Rom, Gascoigne, The One Reborn, Celestial Emissary (the weird blue alien boss), Witch of Hemwick, Shadows of Yharnam. All of those have their own "thing" to them, and I know you definitely weren't on/under them the whole time. You would think they would die in the thousands but I actually watched two friends play and they both ran through setting off traps (sometimes the same one repeatedly -_-) and they maybe died 20 times. I like the cautious approach and played it like a MG game and had a blast luring and stealthing through. As for the bosses you mentioned I just riposte'd (that probably isn't how you say it. lol) Gascoigne and the Shadows of Yharnam ("the Yharnam boys" as my gf calls them). I stayed against the others, dashing over if they teleported. I understand that some people had that memory-leak glitch so I'm not 100% sure how any of these fights were "supposed" to go. Also Nikolash was lame in that he killed me once even though he was laying on the ground and couldn't possible be doing the attack (squid arm thing) that he hit me with. It think they needed to add more frames to some of the animations to fix that sort of thing. My point is that I don't differentiate between "being on or under" and "running to where they teleported and then being on or under". I did enjoy countering the bosses where I was able but playing online later it was pretty much guesswork getting the timing with the lag. I will say that I enjoyed the fight with the Yharnam Queen, that to me is what I felt like they should have been doing with the other bosses.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 16, 2015 11:40:08 GMT -6
Speaking of MG, it has basically the same autosave approach as Bloodborne, I've been noticing. You can restart the mission, but that can put you waaaay back.
You can run...if you know where to run. The only time I did that without knowing where I was going was once in the forbidden woods. Terrible idea. I ended up getting sandwiched between the two boars in the swamp, ugh.
However, like in Central Yharnam, you can really just run straight past everybody with little consequence. Would you have any idea or inclination to do that the first time playing the game? Probably not, unless you were just crazy.
Yharnam Queen? I don't even remember who that is right now lol. But yeah, I mean...the game is all about the up close fighting. That's just how it is, and it's what a lot of people wanted/think is great. I used magic and bows more before, personally.
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Post by Apollonian on Sept 16, 2015 12:35:30 GMT -6
Speaking of MG, it has basically the same autosave approach as Bloodborne, I've been noticing. You can restart the mission, but that can put you waaaay back. You can run...if you know where to run. The only time I did that without knowing where I was going was once in the forbidden woods. Terrible idea. I ended up getting sandwiched between the two boars in the swamp, ugh. However, like in Central Yharnam, you can really just run straight past everybody with little consequence. Would you have any idea or inclination to do that the first time playing the game? Probably not, unless you were just crazy. Yharnam Queen? I don't even remember who that is right now lol. But yeah, I mean...the game is all about the up close fighting. That's just how it is, and it's what a lot of people wanted/think is great. I used magic and bows more before, personally. The funny thing is that they didn't know where to run and got through it. I remember watching them go through the forest, 1 was slightly more cautious but they both basically dashed through everything and haphazardly found their way. I pebbled/countered my way through and had an easy time. On one of my later playthroughs I actually got knocked into the snake pit in the forest, I don't know how they didn't kill me. I'll have to upload the vid sometime. Yharnam Queen was a unique boss in the chalice dungeon. If you didn't fight her there you do get to see her at at least 2 points in the game if I recall correctly. Some of her attacks reminded me of a shmup so I liked the fight. It was optional though so not everyone would get to see her. My main concern is with how the games are being handled. I assume Namco owns the ip like sony with Demon's Souls so I just don't want it to go downhill. Working on multiple games in short succession generally doesn't end well in the longrun. I do have fun playing though.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 16, 2015 13:48:37 GMT -6
Oh, that makes sense then, I only did maybe a third of the chalice dungeon stuff. I was playing by myself and got tired of seeing ritual blood and tomb mold over and over.
Good news about the frequency of games is that they're taking a break after Dark Souls 3, likely in part for this very reason. DS3 will mark the end of an era in the souls games, as stated by the director, but will not be -the- end. Sounded fair to me.
I'm used to fighters, so versions and more stuff coming out doesn't get on my nerves much lol. These games all managed to be fresh and different enough to me, though, and not rife with what I understand the issues that Assassin's Creed games have. I've never played one, they don't appeal to me as much. That Ubisoft battlefield game with the knights/vikings/samurai looks pretty neat though.
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Post by Ghalion on Sept 18, 2015 16:30:01 GMT -6
Gosh darn it. I still need the game and a ps4 *cries*
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