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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 19:43:16 GMT -6
There's no denying Castlevania: Symphony of the Nights is a great game, but I always thought it had one big flaw. It's way too easy. That's why for me Order of Ecclesia's my favorite, I think they hit the difficulty curve perfectly on that one. I know a lot of people consider that game to be too hard or even unfair though, so I'm curious what is the rest of the Army of the Night hoping for Bloodstained's difficulty. I absolutely agree; the thing about Symphony of the Night was that it wasn't challenging exactly, but considerably time consuming which gave the illusion of being a challenge. Indeed, Order of Ecclesia's difficulty curve made it, for me, one of the most memorable experiences. As much as it made me want to break my DS from the sheer frustration I sometimes faced, I actually really appreciated that I couldn't just dive into that endless cave area to fight that Chinese vampire; I liked that I had to level up and, one by one, figure out which enemies were weak against certain attacks or spells.
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Post by Lelygax on Sept 1, 2015 20:33:22 GMT -6
There's no denying Castlevania: Symphony of the Nights is a great game, but I always thought it had one big flaw. It's way too easy. That's why for me Order of Ecclesia's my favorite, I think they hit the difficulty curve perfectly on that one. I know a lot of people consider that game to be too hard or even unfair though, so I'm curious what is the rest of the Army of the Night hoping for Bloodstained's difficulty. I absolutely agree; the thing about Symphony of the Night was that it wasn't challenging exactly, but considerably time consuming which gave the illusion of being a challenge. Indeed, Order of Ecclesia's difficulty curve made it, for me, one of the most memorable experiences. As much as it made me want to break my DS from the sheer frustration I sometimes faced, I actually really appreciated that I couldn't just dive into that endless cave area to fight that Chinese vampire; I liked that I had to level up and, one by one, figure out which enemies were weak against certain attacks or spells. Exactly, even if I wanted, I couldn't rely only on Nitesco (Nova Skeleton's Laser Glyph) and would need to use a different weapon also to beat this cave. Also I like how Giant Skeleton acts as wall in this game, he is the boss that most people that stopped playing because they couldn't beat it, but also acts as a boss that only lets you pass if you understand fully how the game works. It is cool when once in a while a game teaches you everything and then some time later stops holding your hand like "hey, now its time to show everything that you learned and after that you wouldn't need my help anymore". I've stopped playing it on this part at first, but then after some time I've tried again and after this boss, I don't stopped until finishing the game and almost beating Albus Mode LVL 1 on Hard (or that was LVL 50? I must check sometime).
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 20:40:51 GMT -6
Exactly, even if I wanted, I couldn't rely only on Nitesco (Nova Skeleton's Laser Glyph) and would need to use a different weapon also to beat this cave. Also I like how Giant Skeleton acts as wall in this game, he is the boss that most people that stopped playing because they couldn't beat it, but also acts as a boss that only lets you pass if you understand fully how the game works. It is cool when once in a while a game teaches you everything and then some time later stops holding your hand like "hey, now its time to show everything that you learned and after that you wouldn't need my help anymore". I've stopped playing it on this part at first, but then after some time I've tried again and after this boss, I don't stopped until finishing the game and almost beating Albus Mode LVL 1 on Hard (or that was LVL 50? I must check sometime). Yes, I think it is VERY important for a game to, as you put it, stop holding your hand after a time. It is incredibly gratifying.
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Post by threadbare on Sept 1, 2015 21:25:45 GMT -6
Wow, I'm surprised no-one voted for SotN's difficulty or lower! I agree that OoC's difficulty might not have been for everyone and there'll be Nightmare mode for those wanting an extra challenge, I just hope I won't have to wait until NG+ for it though. I'll most deffinetely play NG+, but when you already know the enemies, items and skills available part of the challenge is reduced. I hope we get at least 2 difficulty levels from the start, one around Dawn's and one around OoC's. Nightmare mode could be closer to OoC's Hard(lvl50), but Hard(lvl1) was waaaay too crazy for me! I'm quite optimistic about it too, as other have mentioned SotN was probably very easy because it was the first of a kind, every Igavania after that one had it's difficulty tuned a bit better. I also hope Nightmare mode will have more than just harder hitting enemies. I hope bosses get new attacks, enemy and item placement change around and we get some other curve balls like that. OoC experimented with that, it had enemies attacking faster and more aggresively in hardmode, but I think they could take the idea further.
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Post by aindriu on Sept 2, 2015 1:14:57 GMT -6
Wow, I'm surprised no-one voted for SotN's difficulty or lower! I agree that OoC's difficulty might not have been for everyone and there'll be Nightmare mode for those wanting an extra challenge, I just hope I won't have to wait until NG+ for it though. I'll most deffinetely play NG+, but when you already know the enemies, items and skills available part of the challenge is reduced. I hope we get at least 2 difficulty levels from the start, one around Dawn's and one around OoC's. Nightmare mode could be closer to OoC's Hard(lvl50), but Hard(lvl1) was waaaay too crazy for me! I'm quite optimistic about it too, as other have mentioned SotN was probably very easy because it was the first of a kind, every Igavania after that one had it's difficulty tuned a bit better. I also hope Nightmare mode will have more than just harder hitting enemies. I hope bosses get new attacks, enemy and item placement change around and we get some other curve balls like that. OoC experimented with that, it had enemies attacking faster and more aggresively in hardmode, but I think they could take the idea further. Actually, now that you mention it, I always thought that Order of Ecclesia was somewhat of an underdog in the Castlevania series; I'm just as surprised as you are! As far as your Nightmare Mode goes, I couldn't for the life in me comprehend the idea of going into a game head-first in Nightmare Mode before beating the game in a normal setting.
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Post by Everett Spair on Sept 3, 2015 1:33:52 GMT -6
I see a lot of people wanting OoE difficulty. OoE is too hard for me and I still haven't completed it. I don't want Bloodstained to be too hard. Various difficulty options is of course the best solution.
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Post by Lelygax on Sept 3, 2015 3:48:46 GMT -6
I see a lot of people wanting OoE difficulty. OoE is too hard for me and I still haven't completed it. I don't want Bloodstained to be too hard. Various difficulty options is of course the best solution. Maybe a Normal difficulty similar to DoS and a Hard difficulty like in OoE? Then Nightmare could surpass OoE.
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Post by Ghalion on Sept 3, 2015 9:50:29 GMT -6
Ive seen some people who actually think adjustable difficulty is BAD. Those kinds of opinions make me cry.
Ive also noticed a rise in games with easier than very easy difficulty settings... Like cheat code easy. Ik talking enemy hp =1 and player is godmode easy. I would never ever ever enjoy that, bjt I have no objection to them existing for the people who DO want it... So why cant some people support people who want hard modes too qq.
Not that im saying anyone here has said such yet.
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Post by Goobsausage on Sept 3, 2015 14:48:07 GMT -6
I see a lot of people wanting OoE difficulty. OoE is too hard for me and I still haven't completed it. I don't want Bloodstained to be too hard. Various difficulty options is of course the best solution. Maybe a Normal difficulty similar to DoS and a Hard difficulty like in OoE? Then Nightmare could surpass OoE. That's a good scenario right there. Normal on par with DoS would be good for newcomers or people who don't find difficult games fun while still remaining more difficult than SOTN, Hard mode on par with OOE would be good for experienced players, and Nightmare could be for people who want to rip their hair out or break their controllers while playing a difficult game. Everyone gets what they want.
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Post by Astaroth on Sept 6, 2015 20:18:50 GMT -6
Maybe a Normal difficulty similar to DoS and a Hard difficulty like in OoE? Then Nightmare could surpass OoE. That's a good scenario right there. Normal on par with DoS would be good for newcomers or people who don't find difficult games fun while still remaining more difficult than SOTN, Hard mode on par with OOE would be good for experienced players, and Nightmare could be for people who want to rip their hair out or break their controllers while playing a difficult game. Everyone gets what they want. i could go for this, i never got around to 100% OoE but i love running SotN every now and then and im currently slogging my way through the PoR arena for items at 60 i will say this though, i actually like SotNs difficulty curve (DoS has a similar curve but more refined for less of a swing) for normal because the levels and the gear overtake it, it allows you to choose your own difficulty by deciding what level you want to shoot for and what gear you want to use to make it to the end, instead of the curve being set to meet up with the gear and stats where by the end youre forced to use the best gear and almost max lvl to beat the final boss or abuse the magic/item system for an easy kill. if you want to nuke drac with dual crissaegrims/inf buffalo stars/godshield you can, if you want to challenge him to fisticuffs in your bloomers at as low a level you can manage, you can (thatd be a couple hour fight worth streaming >P) part of the reason i keep bringing up relics that would allow you to freeze your level, gold, and mastery (if its implemented) is that it would give us another way to tweak the difficulty (along with gear) on the fly (as well as hopefully being easy to implement for the devs). game getting too easy? freeze your level and mastery, equip weaker gear and continue, and if it gets too difficult later you turn them off and put on better gear ^_^
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Post by zero on Sept 7, 2015 1:29:17 GMT -6
I honestly can't say, when I think of difficultly in terms of being fair I think OOE. When I think of the game I had the most fun with and lost hundreds of hours to, well that was SOTN. So I'm not going to say for sure but Iga seems to know games better than me so I'm fine with whatever his vision is.
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Post by spideryfingers on Sept 7, 2015 3:56:18 GMT -6
I love a good challenge and the level of difficulty in OoE was near perfect in my opinion. This difficulty, in combination with the massive castle upcoming in Bloodstained, would make for an exceptional gaming experience.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 8, 2015 12:22:43 GMT -6
I don't really want to promote the player handicapping himself for the sake of difficulty, though. I do it myself, sometimes subconsciously even, but it's something that's mostly born out of necessity rather than something I'd like to have as a default or something those behind the game are planning on/thinking we'll do. Enjoying everything the game has to offer means being able to use the powerful equipment, but it not being so powerful that it makes the game trivial.
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Post by GM_3826 on Sept 8, 2015 14:27:29 GMT -6
So, uh, recently I played a game with a similar level-up system to SOTN. Specifically, Gunvolt, which my avatar is inspired by. Allow me to give my thoughts. I could pick up any other game. Play it for a few hours, get addicted to it momentarily, then eventually peter out. Why? Because quite frankly I didn't have the dexterity or the time needed to actually play the game and accomplish all there is to accomplish. Eventually, my brain would just give up on me after dying for the thousandth time. Gunvolt was different. - There was no lives system. You could die and play as many times as you want.
- There was a level up system. If you couldn't beat a level at one point, grind and try again.
- There were aspects that made the game significantly easier but needed to be taken away to score higher scores and reach higher levels of play.
- There were equipment that could allow you to defeat any obstacle as long as you had the time and patience.
Yet, there was still difficulty. Why? Because achieving the highest scores was not just difficult, it was near impossible. In order to get an S+, you needed to not get hit, defeat practically every enemy, use none of the "easy-mode" items, and clear this all the fastest you could. There were also challenge levels that would test your stamina, surprisingly hard bosses, a Speed Run mode which was just plain insane, and the option to completely forego the level-up system. The result is a game that ultimately had a lot of replay value. This is the reason why although until now I did not have a favorite game, Azure Striker Gunvolt is now my favorite game of all time. I would ultimately LOVE if Bloodstained was similar. This is particularly true if there is no content which is only available on higher difficulty levels. I realize that you can't ultimately listen to one person and grant them what they want. But who knows? This may be what Igarashi and Inti Creates are looking to do, and I just convinced them to go for it. Either way, I would love if this was the case.
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Post by Richter Belmont on Sept 15, 2015 14:38:01 GMT -6
the main game should be as difficult as sotn. if you want your ass kicked, include a hard mode!
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Post by Cale on Sept 16, 2015 0:37:56 GMT -6
Dark Souls!
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Post by Rigel on Sept 16, 2015 2:40:17 GMT -6
Good question. I think the Igavanias need to be as hard as Order of Ecclesia from now on, anything less difficult would be a setback
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Post by Ghalion on Sept 16, 2015 3:15:18 GMT -6
the main game should be as difficult as sotn. if you want your ass kicked, include a hard mode! Except sotn is so easy that even if you play 1 handed you wont get your "ass kicked" =p.
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Post by maedhros on Sept 16, 2015 8:21:31 GMT -6
I'll be really dissapointed if this is anything near SOTN difficult. Worst aspect of the game.
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Post by GM_3826 on Sept 16, 2015 14:18:50 GMT -6
the main game should be as difficult as sotn. if you want your ass kicked, include a hard mode! Except sotn is so easy that even if you play 1 handed you wont get your "ass kicked" =p. Rude.
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