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Post by adralmelech on Jul 2, 2019 10:49:22 GMT -6
adralmelech You mean the in-game backer content right? There's an important separation between something that's part of the game and not. Retaining exclusivity of physical items is good and healthy for the game and its future, but locking out the game content itself was seen as not. That happens to be a stance that I agree with, and it's unfortunate that initially the campaign promised what it did (likely decisions of who was previously involved). It wouldn't do most of us (and including them) any long-term favors by putting out a single instance of locked content. This is according to your opinion, and i really don't want to argue around opinions, but i'll just tell you this: Backtracking on a written deal so hard as they did, can be way more harmful to the game than just cutting their loses and accepting to keep the exclusive content exclusive atleast while they figure how to make it available without having to specifically backtrack, the way they did it not only was harmful for backers, it can be really harmful for the future of the game itself.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 2, 2019 11:08:38 GMT -6
adralmelech Yeah, that was part of my thinking too back then - I voted on that poll for skins because I thought that would be a compromise so that some kind of exclusivity was retained. The position they were in forced alienation of some group of people, and even among the affected group of people (the supporters themselves), they seemed to as a majority not be against the change. There are a few that are still hurt by it (and those affected in other cases), and I can sense that you feel those should be given extra concession. I think extra concession has/is being done, and I'm sure that what they do won't match your ideal of enough, but the ideal "enough" has kept moving further into smaller amounts of unsatisfied people where it's eventually unrealistic to provide the huge fix that has to be pushed to all.
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Post by adralmelech on Jul 2, 2019 11:21:27 GMT -6
adralmelech Yeah, that was part of my thinking too back then - I voted on that poll for skins because I thought that would be a compromise so that some kind of exclusivity was retained. The position they were in forced alienation of some group of people, and even among the affected group of people (the supporters themselves), they seemed to as a majority not be against the change. There are a few that are still hurt by it (and those affected in other cases), and I can sense that you feel those should be given extra concession. I think extra concession has/is being done, and I'm sure that what they do won't match your ideal of enough, but the ideal "enough" has kept moving further into smaller amounts of unsatisfied people where it's eventually unrealistic to provide the huge fix that has to be pushed to all. Well look I'm a dick, but not that much, and i accepted as a solution the eventual creation of a "definitive" version of the game with the content, and would , that would have been a fine compromise, i can probably just deal with anythign they come up with, the reason why i say it can be harmful for the game is because, it doesn't matter what concesions you give to people, you are still not giving them what you originally agreed upon, those terms are written all over the place, and well, it just takes a couple unhappy guys with spare time...
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 2, 2019 11:36:33 GMT -6
adralmelech Yeah, that was part of my thinking too back then - I voted on that poll for skins because I thought that would be a compromise so that some kind of exclusivity was retained. The position they were in forced alienation of some group of people, and even among the affected group of people (the supporters themselves), they seemed to as a majority not be against the change. There are a few that are still hurt by it (and those affected in other cases), and I can sense that you feel those should be given extra concession. I think extra concession has/is being done, and I'm sure that what they do won't match your ideal of enough, but the ideal "enough" has kept moving further into smaller amounts of unsatisfied people where it's eventually unrealistic to provide the huge fix that has to be pushed to all. the reason why i say it can be harmful for the game is because, it doesn't matter what concesions you give to people, you are still not giving them what you originally agreed upon, those terms are written all over the place, and well, it just takes a couple unhappy guys with spare time... I don't like that some people are still unhappy, and neither does IGA or 505, but it's a blow that has to be weathered by us all. We can't re-exclusive it at this point, and right, beyond offering otherwise a bunch of additional digital stuff to $60+, concession to them can be seen as mockery or even making it worse. For others, it makes it more bearable or even a sweet deal. Where and how lines can be drawn isn't easy, but they seem to me to be going with doing a lot of extra stuff.
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Post by adralmelech on Jul 2, 2019 11:45:12 GMT -6
the reason why i say it can be harmful for the game is because, it doesn't matter what concesions you give to people, you are still not giving them what you originally agreed upon, those terms are written all over the place, and well, it just takes a couple unhappy guys with spare time... I don't like that some people are still unhappy, and neither does IGA or 505, but it's a blow that has to be weathered by us all. We can't re-exclusive it at this point, and right, beyond offering otherwise a bunch of additional digital stuff to $60+, concession to them can be seen as mockery or even making it worse. For others, it makes it more bearable or even a sweet deal. Where and how lines can be drawn isn't easy, but they seem to me to be going with doing a lot of extra stuff. That's my point, removing exclusivity in the way they did, provides a few extra bucks to 505, but opens a risk that imo is not worth it, and it can not be made exclusive again, even if it stops selling now. Providing extra stuff doesn't solve this situation as the risk will still be there, even if they give away some paid dlc for free to 60+ backers, as long as that content is not exclusive it will still not be what people backed and that is a liability that 505 should have seen, and is also not like they got here and iga tricked them, they knew the tiers, they are public.
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 2, 2019 11:53:21 GMT -6
To be fair, some of that content, such as the IGA's Back Pack were voted on by BACKERS to be non-exclusive. We wanted that to be shared with others and most of the community was fine with receiving their physical merch, instead.
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Post by adralmelech on Jul 2, 2019 12:06:01 GMT -6
To be fair, some of that content, such as the IGA's Back Pack were voted on by BACKERS to be non-exclusive. We wanted that to be shared with others and most of the community was fine with receiving their physical merch, instead. The poll was flawed from the very begining and at most it has like 1/4 of the backers answering it (i say at most because that's taking poll's own numbers), but that's not even relevant, the important part is that contracts are not democracies, you can not vote to modify a contract in which you have no part in, as it was explained before, kickstarter project was not a deal between iga and a community of 64,867, it was 64,867 deals between iga and individuals.
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Post by iggyg85 on Jul 2, 2019 12:27:37 GMT -6
I would like to add for the pro KS sequel that stirring away from crowdfunding takes away some of the fun things that get added to higher tiers which help get the community involved like:
1. backer created weapons 2 . backer designed enemies 3. turn your pet into enemy 4. special messages left in credits 5. the whole clan thing in general 6. having the direct feedback input that helped shape the game better post demo 7. voice actors leaving custom sound check messages. 8. the mass social media campaign for other unlocks was amazingly fun at the time
Understandably, there are the drawbacks of a few unkept promises. Dropped console support (I wanted the Vita version as my digi copy). I can personally understand the drop of Vita and Wii-U due to the next gen and/or dropped support, but the various PC drops are definitely rockier. The equally rocky rollout of rewards with the quality issues (fortunately in this digital age we can get patches) leaves a bitter taste. Backer rewards and game shipped at different times. Backer exclusive content is now paid DLC for non backers (which a majority of us supported). The KS goods are generally still exclusive when they show though. Production took longer. This is an indie outfit though, and we still didn’t have the decades long wait for a AAA title from some companies after announcements (looking at you Sqeenix and Valve).
Overall, I am pleased though. And truly it’s the backer/community involvement that makes the crowdfunding a great option in my opinion.
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Post by allooutrick on Jul 2, 2019 12:36:30 GMT -6
I would happily back a sequel. I got a very rare glimpse into the game development process, had a chance to provide feedback, gave the team the opportunity to do something unfamiliar and learn from it, and got a product I'm satisfied with.
I don't think they'll need to resort to it but, if they did, I'd show them all the support I'm able.
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Post by Squirrel Taskmaster on Jul 2, 2019 13:55:11 GMT -6
The game is awesome and I absolutely want sequels. By all accounts, the game has sold extremely well too. Other people have already said it, but the groundwork is now laid and the devs/publishers know the audience is there. It's more a matter that I don't think there's a need for another crowdfund at this point.
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Post by aoanla on Jul 2, 2019 13:56:07 GMT -6
No: it's not even clear when/how many of the goals for the Bloodstained Kickstarter will be met (and some of them, like Linux/Mac support have been actually dropped).
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Nezuto
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 2, 2019 14:25:22 GMT -6
They won't require any backers for a sequel, at any rate. Sales are going pretty strong and Iga & team have mostly accomplished what they attempted with this game. A return of a formula that the dear Pachinko overlords clearly have forgotten and it shows. Pretty sure most stuff will be hammered out by the time a sequel does happen, as well.
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Post by nathatruc on Jul 2, 2019 16:32:54 GMT -6
While the game turned out to be great... After the whole experience, i decided to never kickstart again. 1. Cancelled promises (Mac, Linux, Wii-U etc) 2. Asspulls (last minute announcement of DRMed version, looking over at you Curse of the Moon) 3. Backers receive their stuff last Especially No3. With the same money, you could have bought EVERYTHING at once, during day 1 release and be assured that the game is of good quality (not risking). Now, weeks post launch and we still haven't received the codes for that soundtrack. Yep still no game for me. I really wanna play it but I decided to back the game 4 years ago and now I see people finishing the game, I saw lots of switch copies in the shops and everyday in my mailbox nothing, but I've got my slipcase at least... So kickstarter is a no for me they send me a slipcase that came from the us without any problem but the warehouse that is less than 6 hours away from my house can't give me my game, I'm really pissed about how they handled the backers.
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Post by adralmelech on Jul 2, 2019 16:41:40 GMT -6
While the game turned out to be great... After the whole experience, i decided to never kickstart again. 1. Cancelled promises (Mac, Linux, Wii-U etc) 2. Asspulls (last minute announcement of DRMed version, looking over at you Curse of the Moon) 3. Backers receive their stuff last Especially No3. With the same money, you could have bought EVERYTHING at once, during day 1 release and be assured that the game is of good quality (not risking). Now, weeks post launch and we still haven't received the codes for that soundtrack. Yep still no game for me. I really wanna play it but I decided to back the game 4 years ago and now I see people finishing the game, I saw lots of switch copies in the shops and everyday in my mailbox nothing, but I've got my slipcase at least... So kickstarter is a no for me they send me a slipcase that came from the us without any problem but the warehouse that is less than 6 hours away from my house can't give me my game, I'm really pissed about how they handled the backers. Sadly is a well studied phenomenon, they just needed to get the ball rolling and they wouldn't have to be held accountable for their actions, affected people is regarded as a "vocal minority" and that serves as moral non-stick for 505
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 2, 2019 17:05:21 GMT -6
While the game turned out to be great... After the whole experience, i decided to never kickstart again. 1. Cancelled promises (Mac, Linux, Wii-U etc) 2. Asspulls (last minute announcement of DRMed version, looking over at you Curse of the Moon) 3. Backers receive their stuff last Especially No3. With the same money, you could have bought EVERYTHING at once, during day 1 release and be assured that the game is of good quality (not risking). Now, weeks post launch and we still haven't received the codes for that soundtrack. Yep still no game for me. I really wanna play it but I decided to back the game 4 years ago and now I see people finishing the game, I saw lots of switch copies in the shops and everyday in my mailbox nothing, but I've got my slipcase at least... So kickstarter is a no for me they send me a slipcase that came from the us without any problem but the warehouse that is less than 6 hours away from my house can't give me my game, I'm really pissed about how they handled the backers. Your physical copy arriving late, while unfortunate, has less to do with Kickstarter and 505, and more to do with how incompetent the postal service around your area is. Game stores sell games so naturally they would be the first to be stocked up.
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Post by fullmetalsnorlax on Jul 2, 2019 20:27:46 GMT -6
While I think it's asinine to run another kickstarter after releasing a game that grossed as well as bloodstained surely did (or will); I must admit that I like feeling involved and really appreciated the backer submitted content in this game. I hesitantly say yes.
There are also other potential perks to running another kickstarter depending on the situation: - How much do you have to back to get a copy of the game? If it's less than the retail price then that's cool. - Is there a tier for an exclusive demo? (Although that's kinda like paying to do beta test work). - Will the game come out regardless, the kickstarter is just to speed up development or improve the next game's scope?
As a backer of bloodstained I just have one major concern. Please don't offer backer exclusive in-game content again. I really can't stand all the people complaining that they can't have it or that it's not exclusive enough. We the community are largely composed of adult-children who fight over each other's over toys.
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Post by nathatruc on Jul 2, 2019 23:21:48 GMT -6
Yep still no game for me. I really wanna play it but I decided to back the game 4 years ago and now I see people finishing the game, I saw lots of switch copies in the shops and everyday in my mailbox nothing, but I've got my slipcase at least... So kickstarter is a no for me they send me a slipcase that came from the us without any problem but the warehouse that is less than 6 hours away from my house can't give me my game, I'm really pissed about how they handled the backers. Your physical copy arriving late, while unfortunate, has less to do with Kickstarter and 505, and more to do with how incompetent the postal service around your area is. Game stores sell games so naturally they would be the first to be stocked up. The postal service work great where I am I'm in France, the problem is that they used a bad service to send it, today they told me that the game was shipped on the 17th of june if it's not here today it's clearly lost, I buy lots of thing on the internet and I never had a problem. the postal service in paris is great there is nothing wrong with it.
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