inherit
2328
0
May 20, 2022 17:52:44 GMT -6
128
ovenkitty
279
Mar 22, 2018 16:23:21 GMT -6
March 2018
ovenkitty
|
Post by ovenkitty on Jun 30, 2019 8:40:14 GMT -6
For anyone who doesn't know about Digital Foundry, it's a Youtube channel that has reviews/analysis with a focus on the technical side. This one's an interesting comparison between the various console versions across all 6 supported platforms, with a focus on the Switch port.
|
|
ReySol
Master of the Solar Eclipse
Ancient Legion
[TI0]
Posts: 350
inherit
Master of the Solar Eclipse
11
0
Jul 2, 2024 13:03:13 GMT -6
315
ReySol
[TI0]
350
May 28, 2015 11:06:46 GMT -6
May 2015
mark
|
Post by ReySol on Jun 30, 2019 10:40:51 GMT -6
Finally, I was waiting for this video, so thanks for letting us know about it.
I agree the main problem and game breaking aspect of the Switch version is the input lag, with loading times between rooms following that. There was a jump like they showed to the upper room and you had to jump and press left or right, but with that long loading time, is it was impossible to make it to the upper room unless you were pressing left/ right the whole 10 seconds of loading times! This is unacceptable!
I would also like the textures to be improved, I think they can do it and keep fixed 30 fps if they get help from experienced developers in Switch ports.
|
|
Ciel
Executor of the Church
Ancient Legion
じーっ
Posts: 853
inherit
Executor of the Church
171
0
Sept 25, 2023 14:37:47 GMT -6
694
Ciel
じーっ
853
Jun 17, 2015 22:18:47 GMT -6
June 2015
krion
|
Post by Ciel on Jun 30, 2019 10:43:55 GMT -6
I really wonder how some people weren't noticing input lag when he measured the Switch version to have it at 140ms. That's incredibly high!
Good video as always, as a subscriber of their channel I'm happy to see that at least not everything is bad news on the technical side of things.
|
|
inherit
2328
0
May 20, 2022 17:52:44 GMT -6
128
ovenkitty
279
Mar 22, 2018 16:23:21 GMT -6
March 2018
ovenkitty
|
Post by ovenkitty on Jun 30, 2019 11:43:52 GMT -6
I was a bit surprised how stable the frame-rate is for Switch. It sounds like the biggest issues with the Switch port are solvable.
|
|
dareka
Dhampyr
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 345
inherit
Dhampyr
1332
0
Mar 8, 2023 13:21:18 GMT -6
724
dareka
345
Jun 17, 2016 16:09:16 GMT -6
June 2016
dareka
|
Post by dareka on Jun 30, 2019 12:09:35 GMT -6
I would also like the textures to be improved, I think they can do it and keep fixed 30 fps if they get help from experienced developers in Switch ports. Sorry to burst your bubble, but as the video points out, that's very unlikely to happen. It's just not about whether the developer is experienced in Switch ports. Games with better textures on Switch were designed from the ground up as exclusives for the platform. When this happens, and the developer has a target frame rate, they design both the assets and the levels around these constraints, making sure that they look good and play well on the system first and foremost. This was clearly not done (impossible to do, as the system wasn't out yet!), and thus you could put the best developers in the world on this, with the most experience on Earth on Switch, and it won't happen. See that jump that takes 10 seconds to load? There are two basic ways around it: reducing the geometry and texture quality, and eliminating the jump completely. If the game had been built for Switch from the ground up, they would have either reworked the map, or they would have changed the look of the map so that the textures can look good enough despite being lower-res. As for the texture quality, raising it increases the memory footprint (load times) and the number of pixels processed (performance). This can be offset by cutbacks in other areas, but that'll raise other issues. I hate to sound ranty, but one recurring theme when discussing the Switch version is how the game should be able to run at 60 fps on the platform and you just need more time or better developers, because you've seen better looking games on the platform run smoother. NO, I can't stress this enough: that's not how it works. EVERYTHING, from the size of the game areas, to the art style, to the number of different areas, enemies, weapons, and their design (both look and features) is decided based on a console's technical limitations. You'll say " the number of weapons? what does that have to do with performance?" Well, because each weapon has it's animations for regular attacks and special attacks, and those animations take up memory. This is where you decide things like whether or not your game features weapon switching on the fly. If it does, then the animations for all the weapons you're going to be switching mid-combo need to be always loaded, cutting back on your memory pool; and if they're not, you have to do something like shortcuts - fast, but not as fast - to allow you a least a bit of a breather to load those new animations. Every wonder why developers don't incorporate those "simple" features that in hindsight would appear to make the game better? Because they already made a trade-off decision in the early stages of development, and designed everything on the game with the constraints they'd settled on in mind. Now, this is just an example, mind you - it may or may not be how Bloodstained's game engine manages assets - but what I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of design constraints in games that are there because of the lead development platform that people are not aware of when they judge a game's performance and visuals. It is not, I repeat, it is not about hunkering down and optimizing with really good devs. The game was never going to perform well technically on Switch. The only question is how well it can be reasonably made to run. Also, about the input lag...if it's roughly twice as that of the other consoles, and it's running at half the frame rate, there's a good chance the two are fundamentally tied together in the game engine. Would not expect great things here, either, but then again, this is not my area of expertise, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
|
|
ReySol
Master of the Solar Eclipse
Ancient Legion
[TI0]
Posts: 350
inherit
Master of the Solar Eclipse
11
0
Jul 2, 2024 13:03:13 GMT -6
315
ReySol
[TI0]
350
May 28, 2015 11:06:46 GMT -6
May 2015
mark
|
Post by ReySol on Jun 30, 2019 13:24:12 GMT -6
With that input lag it is IMPOSSIBLE to play this game on Switch. I did play a few hours but it was the most awful gaming experience I have had.
I know and have read about things you wrote about development of games for Switch or porting to Switch. Developers managed to improve Doom on Switch, so I have hopes for Bloodstained. I don't think people are expecting to have 60 fps, it is obvious 30 fps is reality for UE4 Switch port, BUT without that input lag. It is just not acceptable and should have not been released like that. This hurts the franchise a lot. I did not mind to wait for Hollow knight on Switch, and that game is million times better than RotN anyway. I hope RotN on Switch will at least come to the level of knees of Hollow knight on Switch. If not, Silksong will make forget about this sad outcome for RotN. Maybe one day I will be able to play it on another console..
|
|
dareka
Dhampyr
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 345
inherit
Dhampyr
1332
0
Mar 8, 2023 13:21:18 GMT -6
724
dareka
345
Jun 17, 2016 16:09:16 GMT -6
June 2016
dareka
|
Post by dareka on Jun 30, 2019 15:44:03 GMT -6
I'm sure it will be improved - what I'm not sure is that the input lag will ever be on par with the other versions, if they are able to significantly improve it at all.
What you can expect as far as improvements are shorter load times and a more stable frame rate. Textures are not going to get better, and as for the input lag... honestly, if it could be significantly improved, my guess is they would have done it already. They might be able to tweak it, but I doubt it'll ever be to anyone's satisfaction. The UE4 Engine is notorious for causing input lag in fighting games that run at 60 fps - again, I'd love to be proven wrong, but unless they manage to somehow achieve parity in the frame rate itself, I'm not sure we can hope for improvements in this area.
I think people are eventually going to have to face the fact that promising the game on Wii U and Vita, and then designing the whole game without taking into account those consoles' limitations, and then assuming that porting to the Switch would go smoothly, was a huge, tremendous mistake, bigger than all those other stretch goals put together.
I've seen very capable developers make more asinine decisions first hand, so I'm not surprised, but still... and by the way, the blame for this falls on IGA's, Inti's, and Ben Judd's shoulders, too. They thought adding Wii U and Vita versions was a good idea, after all, and when they cancelled them they had to provide an alternative in the form of the Switch.
So yeah, I was hopeful they'd somehow designed around the limitations of the consoles on the lower end at least in mind, but now it's clear they didn't.
|
|
inherit
1711
0
Aug 1, 2019 16:08:29 GMT -6
32
yulia11
155
Sept 5, 2016 21:46:04 GMT -6
September 2016
yulia11
|
Post by yulia11 on Jun 30, 2019 15:58:52 GMT -6
Everspace run decently well on the switch, and Everspace dev (strictly indie by the way) didn't really start on the port until UE4.20 comes out and they announce in the forum that Epic have provided new optimization tool to port game to mobile platforms. The core team is previously known for the excellent Galaxy on fire II, which is mobile and definitely don't run on Unreal 3. Everspace is a step up in terms of graphics compared to Bloodstained. Given time the Switch Port can improve on this if they are willing to rebuild the game. More than occasionally, the switch version gets super low resolution texture (loading issues?). The first times this happens is during the Vepar boss fight, where the skin suddenly becomes pale white, and this can be consistently recreated when overclocked for some reason, along with wrecking in game logic with the library Simian disappearing (Atmosphere). The game definitely won't be on par with other versions but having somewhat clearer texture so the details are visible on say a colored window, Craftward or Miriam are doable.
Edit: Not MK11, that thing is cursed. Everspace Dev Interview This is done in September 2018. The entire project had enough time to push to a later build, but no one cares about the switch enough, appearently. If the game is to be rebuilt, expect at least 3 months after all the asap patches are in. Fortnite right now can actually push 1080p 30fps (laggy) or 720p 30fps(decent, overclocked or dock) on the switch. Edit 2: I think I misinterpreted the title there.
|
|
inherit
1711
0
Aug 1, 2019 16:08:29 GMT -6
32
yulia11
155
Sept 5, 2016 21:46:04 GMT -6
September 2016
yulia11
|
Post by yulia11 on Jun 30, 2019 16:07:30 GMT -6
With that input lag it is IMPOSSIBLE to play this game on Switch. I did play a few hours but it was the most awful gaming experience I have had. I know and have read about things you wrote about development of games for Switch or porting to Switch. Developers managed to improve Doom on Switch, so I have hopes for Bloodstained. I don't think people are expecting to have 60 fps, it is obvious 30 fps is reality for UE4 Switch port, BUT without that input lag. It is just not acceptable and should have not been released like that. This hurts the franchise a lot. I did not mind to wait for Hollow knight on Switch, and that game is million times better than RotN anyway. I hope RotN on Switch will at least come to the level of knees of Hollow knight on Switch. If not, Silksong will make forget about this sad outcome for RotN. Maybe one day I will be able to play it on another console.. Doom devs are god like. They fixed Creation Engine, to an extent.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Oct 25, 2024 0:03:05 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 30, 2019 16:54:05 GMT -6
It's a great video, watched it earlier today.
|
|
Clear
Global Moderator
[TI0] お疲れ様でした、IGA!
Posts: 351
inherit
975
0
1
Oct 26, 2019 10:58:24 GMT -6
287
Clear
[TI0] お疲れ様でした、IGA!
351
Dec 14, 2015 20:00:39 GMT -6
December 2015
clear
|
Post by Clear on Jun 30, 2019 23:55:41 GMT -6
Good stuff I feel they put in good work behind their analysis, as I would say for pretty much all their videos.
|
|
inherit
3394
0
Nov 13, 2019 11:18:37 GMT -6
23
bradd80
33
Jun 26, 2019 8:55:22 GMT -6
June 2019
bradd80
|
Post by bradd80 on Jul 1, 2019 16:38:25 GMT -6
Its very sad that the system, the Switch, with the biggest audience and sales and hype was given the worst version of the game.
When the moved over to working on the switch. They had more then enough time to organize a team and gameplan around putting the game out in a good looking and working state. Other studios that ported other games to the switch dis so in less time and started their projects after ARTPLAY would have and came out with better results. This claim that they did not have enough time to work on the switch game is HOLLOW since they had more time to work on it then other studios. Most studios did not start developing for the switch until months after in launched cause they all thought it would not do well based on the WiiU. In this way IGA and his team had as much time or more time then some of them to make the game.
This was just a sad and lazy port. And they punished the community that had the biggest audience.
|
|