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Post by ben2749 on Jun 25, 2019 16:47:08 GMT -6
Hello all.
Please let me know if I have posted this in the wrong place (I apologize if so).
I know the title of this thread may sound like entitlement, but I disagree, mainly because of last week's Kickstarter update e-mail:
"Hello everyone, IGA here.
The day has finally arrived. The release is here!
I do want to first apologize to those whose delivery is delayed due to their region. We wanted to deliver it to everyone as quickly as possible, but due to various conditions of selling the game, the delay was unavoidable.
Steam keys have been given out to backers in the affected regions (Japan and Asia PS4). We hope you enjoy it until your chosen platform arrives."
So people received free Steam keys as compensation for being affected by a shipping delay. I applaud that; many other developers/publishers would not provide any kind of compensation for that.
However, now that it's become apparent that the Switch version has a lot of issues, including awful framerates, far worse graphics than should be expected, and input delay, etc, ( there is a comparison video here that shows just how inferior it is), and the most recent Kickstarter update acknowledges these issues, I think that people who backed the game on Kickstarter and received a Switch copy should receive a Steam key, so we can also enjoy the game until the Switch version is up-to-par.
I received my Kickstarter edition physical Switch copy yesterday, and I was planning on playing it today, but now that I've heard (and seen) just how poor it is compared to other systems, I do not want to play it in it's current state. I have waited years for this game; I do not want to settle for a sub-par version. That means I have to wait, likely for quite some time. Most certainly longer than a a delivery delay. And unlike the delivery delay, this is something that is not out of the developer's/publisher's hands. They have no control over the delivery delay, but they certainly have control over the quality of their game. And they certainly have control over the release dates. Had they instead delayed the Switch version until these issues were resolved (and made that reason clear), I would have been able to make an informed decision as to whether to wait or change my platform of choice.
I am bitterly disappointed with the current situation. I want to play the game I backed years ago that I have finally received, but I should not be forced to choose between playing a sub-par version, unfairly having to wait a long time to get a version on par with the others (and even then, that's not a guarantee), or having to buy the game a second time.
I'd like to request a Steam key please. I think that's an entirely reasonable request under the circumstances.
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Post by 4blackout on Jun 25, 2019 17:40:19 GMT -6
While I agree with your opinions on the matter, and share the exact same dilemma of not wanting a less-than-perfect experience when I play a game I've been waiting years to play, the truth is that we picked the Switch version without knowing what it would be like. You and I, and many others, chose to bet on the Switch version being ideal for us. The designers owe us nothing. That said, it might be in their best interest to do something about this backlash despite that.
Steam keys would be one solution, but many Switch backers (myself included) does not have a PC that can run the game. I'm not sure if it's possible to please all of us.
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Post by ben2749 on Jun 25, 2019 18:03:20 GMT -6
While I agree with your opinions on the matter, and share the exact same dilemma of not wanting a less-than-perfect experience when I play a game I've been waiting years to play, the truth is that we picked the Switch version without knowing what it would be like. You and I, and many others, chose to bet on the Switch version being ideal for us. The designers owe us nothing. That said, it might be in their best interest to do something about this backlash despite that. Steam keys would be one solution, but many Switch backers (myself included) does not have a PC that can run the game. I'm not sure if it's possible to please all of us. There's a limit as to how much of a downgrade is acceptable. If the developers wanted us to accept that the Switch version is fine as-is, they wouldn't be shifting their priorities to fixing it. And to say they owe us nothing is just wrong because we gave them money years ago so they could actually develop the game. And a precedent has been set by their response to the delay. If they can give Steam keys out then, then I don't see why they can't do the same here. They didn't owe the people affected by the delay any more than they owe Switch owners (I'd actually say they owe Switch owners more for the reasons I stated).
The Steam keys may not be useful to everybody, but that was also true for those affected by the delivery delay. And compensating some people is objectively better than compensating nobody.
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Post by ben2749 on Jun 26, 2019 1:57:31 GMT -6
And it now turns out the Switch eShop is using PS4 screenshots, which is literally false advertising. I'm sure this is a genuine error and not malicious, but all of this just shows that the Switch version was an afterthought.
The publishers need to do right by Switch owners; the money we provided is just as good as everybody else.
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Post by Orlok Dracule on Jun 26, 2019 2:04:53 GMT -6
And it now turns out the Switch eShop is using PS4 screenshots, which is literally false advertising. I'm sure this is a genuine error and not malicious, but all of this just shows that the Switch version was an afterthought.
The publishers need to do right by Switch owners; the money we provided is just as good as everybody else.
Now this could be because I am using the NA eShop, but I didn't see this screencap just now when I pulled the game up looking for it.
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Post by simon on Jun 26, 2019 2:16:25 GMT -6
“ I didn't see this screencap just now when I pulled the game up looking for it. “
Of course you don’t see it now......they probably had Nintendo remove the screenshot immediately as soon as they were caught doing this shady shit. Hopefully, it was an accident. But I’m seeing a lot of suspicious shady shit surrounding the switch version.
“Overheating Switch Consoles” “Gotta get that polish!”
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 26, 2019 2:18:47 GMT -6
I turned on my Switch to check it out, and that screenshot isn't there. It's just screenshots of gameplay, no menu. I'm also using NA eShop.
However, one screenshot in particular is clearly not from the Switch version. It shows the Galleon with its wet shiny textures that the Switch doesn't have.
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Post by simon on Jun 26, 2019 3:29:33 GMT -6
^ Looks like they got busted again. An employee at 505 probably said "hey guys lets be honest with our Nintendo customers and upload a real Switch version screenshot" ****Employee immediately fired and replaced****
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Post by asterra on Jun 26, 2019 7:00:53 GMT -6
So I watched the video.
I think you have enough intuition to fully understand that the Switch version is never going to be "up to par" by the standard of each of the individual complaints you listed. The framerate is 30, and a 99.9% solid 30 at that. The Wii-U Switch is underpowered by design and you're never going to wrangle twice the power out of it. The resolution is seemingly an upscaled ~720p. Also almost certainly not going to change. The post-processing is significantly reduced. This is the one area they might try to improve, but I am confident that whatever they try in their efforts to appease the Switch owners with buyers' remorse, it's going to have an impact on the stability of the framerate, which they have very clearly taken pains with. And the input lag -- and indeed a pretty big chunk of the overhead -- is dictated in large part by the fact that the game is being driven by Unreal Engine 4, but also to an equally large extent by the fact that the game is not running at 60fps, which happens to double input lag.
The team absolutely does not owe Switch users an extra copy of the game. That said, this thread isn't specifically a fair request, and it will probably still result in said freebie, so I understand why it was created.
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Post by Aztec on Jun 26, 2019 17:13:52 GMT -6
Do yourself a favor: never crowdfund a multiplatform game for the Switch version ever again and wait for the reviews. In fact, never crowdfund a game ever again. You should've known better that an indie game running on the Unreal Engine 4 on Switch was always going to be a huge crapshoot. I own a Switch and a PS4 and I never once entertaine the thought of changing my PS4 pledge for Switch. I did think about adding a Switch digial copy on top of my original pledge but not turning down PS4 in favor of Switch and Im glad I did.
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Post by ben2749 on Jun 27, 2019 8:58:15 GMT -6
So I watched the video. I think you have enough intuition to fully understand that the Switch version is never going to be "up to par" by the standard of each of the individual complaints you listed. The framerate is 30, and a 99.9% solid 30 at that. The Wii-U Switch is underpowered by design and you're never going to wrangle twice the power out of it. The resolution is seemingly an upscaled ~720p. Also almost certainly not going to change. The post-processing is significantly reduced. This is the one area they might try to improve, but I am confident that whatever they try in their efforts to appease the Switch owners with buyers' remorse, it's going to have an impact on the stability of the framerate, which they have very clearly taken pains with. And the input lag -- and indeed a pretty big chunk of the overhead -- is dictated in large part by the fact that the game is being driven by Unreal Engine 4, but also to an equally large extent by the fact that the game is not running at 60fps, which happens to double input lag. The team absolutely does not owe Switch users an extra copy of the game. That said, this thread isn't specifically a fair request, and it will probably still result in said freebie, so I understand why it was created. People whose copies were delayed weren't owed an extra copy of the game, yet they received one. And the worst they had to deal with was a delay. Switch owners had to deal with a delay (as the release date itself was delayed) AND a borderline broken product. And the Switch is capable of running games like Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey at 60fps. From what I hear, the issue is with the engine the game runs on not being great on Switch, but that's not really my problem. I won't accept that it would not have been possible for the Switch version to be on par with the other versions under the right circumstances. It might be a pretty game, but it's not a graphical powerhouse.
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Post by ben2749 on Jun 27, 2019 9:14:31 GMT -6
You should've known better that an indie game running on the Unreal Engine 4 on Switch was always going to be a huge crapshoot. No, I absolutely should not have known better, because expecting any and all customers to be aware of things like hardware and engine limitations/compatibility is absolutely ridiculous.
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Post by asterra on Jun 27, 2019 9:40:30 GMT -6
From what I hear, the issue is with the engine the game runs on not being great on Switch, but that's not really my problem. I won't accept that it would not have been possible for the Switch version to be on par with the other versions under the right circumstances. I'm going to be blunt. The team delivered your product. They never promised that the performance would meet everyone's ideal on every platform. They have zero obligation to you. The Switch is well-known for games that cap at 30fps and fail to even consistently deliver that, so Bloodstained is not some conspicuous specimen. And you understand perfecty well that your demands can never be met. By all means, keep pounding sand. All it will do is solidify the impression of somebody throwing an impotent tantrum.
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Post by thrashinuva on Jun 27, 2019 9:43:57 GMT -6
Steam backers should get Switch keys.
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Post by ben2749 on Jun 27, 2019 9:47:13 GMT -6
From what I hear, the issue is with the engine the game runs on not being great on Switch, but that's not really my problem. I won't accept that it would not have been possible for the Switch version to be on par with the other versions under the right circumstances. I'm going to be blunt. The team delivered your product. They never promised that the performance would meet everyone's ideal on every platform. They have zero obligation to you. The Switch is well-known for games that cap at 30fps and fail to even consistently deliver that, so Bloodstained is not some conspicuous specimen. And you understand perfecty well that your demands can never be met. By all means, keep pounding sand. All it will do is solidify the impression of somebody throwing an impotent tantrum. You conveniently keep ignoring every time I point out that Steam keys were given to people who simply had to deal with a shipping delay. That's literally the entire point of this thread. If you aren't going to address it, then why even bother replying? So, how does a simple shipping delay warrant a free Steam key, yet the Switch version having it's release date pushed back (resulting in a delay) and having enough issues that the developers have publicly acknowledged them not warrant it?
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Post by simon on Jun 28, 2019 15:02:09 GMT -6
From Kickstarter Comments Section:
DN Mesias A about 2 months ago So even though we only just got the targeted performance for Switch last week (with stuttering in the demo and no video to show it working properly) and a delay announcement yesterday, it's already too late to change platforms? and all those who want to change get is "Bad luck with your choice"? I know it's not PR's fault but come on.
Angel CorluxCollaborator about 2 months ago @dn - Hey there, the stuttering and other issues that have been reported on the Switch version will all be smoothed out by launch, many of them already have. And although we're scheduling an extra week for polish we're working to pull that in and release on the 18th on Switch too.
I don't want you or anyone feeling like they got the short stick by picking the Switch version, trust me, that's not going to be the case at all. Right now it's coming a week after (but may change) but everything else is going to be smooth and satisfying.
And this isn't just PR-speak, I'm the brand manager for the game, my brain isn't even wired for PR style stuff, I'd probably flip my desk if I tried lol.
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