purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 28, 2019 12:11:16 GMT -6
browren just to make sure, the linux and mac backers are receiving a steam code, right? As I recall, your complaint was that you would be receiving a version of the game you couldnt play (without the use of proton or wine), not that your order had been canceled entirely. That being the case, cant you sell that code you receive? They should probably give you a code for the DLC as well, which you can also sell. You might also get the OST and digital retro guide, though yeah, selling those would be impractical, I can see the discontent there. There have been many people who suggested that I wasn't nearly as screwed as I said, because I could sell my copy of the game and backer perks for more than I backed, and now, thanks again to 505, I can't even do that. GOG has the game for $35. 505's offer was to convert to a physical copy. Who's going to wait for a physical copy + backer kit, pay shipping, take the risk that the seller is lying, etc. when you can just buy a retail copy and the suddenly not-so-exclusive content for ten bucks more? I'll still give you the money upfront browren, if you'd like. I know the money isn't the real/primary concern here as you want an overall justice, but as far as the above goes, I can help you. I can't do this for everybody, but certainly to whom I'd extended it previously.
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Post by browren on May 28, 2019 13:01:05 GMT -6
It doesn't really matter what they add if the content is publicly available and priced less than it cost backers. A copy off ebay isn't available faster, doesn't have exclusive content, will have shipping costs on top, and has the inherent risk of buying from eBay. All it takes is a couple of ebay frauds and nobody will even bother looking - not that there's any exclusive content to be had in the first place.
Course, 505 doesn't care, they just think it's great to be able to cash in on someone else's investment. No risk on their part, just 100% gain from selling copies of content backers paid to have made exclusively for themselves, and 505 didn't even have to TRY to do any work on linux or Mac!
It's almost like 505 are the pirates!
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Post by browren on May 28, 2019 13:22:49 GMT -6
Nooooo way man. purifyweirdshard, you've been as cool as you could possibly be here, it's not your problem, or any of the other admins or long-time posters' problem, it's 505's problem and they need to do the right thing. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that 505 doesn't actually care at all about the backers or the kickstarter promises at all - to them, ROTN is just another IP to cash in on, all promises to backers be damned. Exclusive content? Pfft. Linux and Mac releases? I'm sure all 12 people who wanted THOSE are gonna be pissed but who cares, screw them. There's a couple of million dollars to be made selling backer exclusives as DLC to the horde of Switch players who've never even heard of kickstarter, and that's really what matters. So come on Question, how much are you making off it? How about you, Angel-Corlux? Want to quote a figure? Maybe expound on this little gem from reddit? "We aren't already in the black on this game, as 505 added in a bunch of resources on top of the Kickstarter funds. But we will be " Is it more than my $60? Is 505 still too broke to refund me?
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Post by Aztec on May 29, 2019 2:45:51 GMT -6
Jesus Christ the drama never ends!
As a $125 backer I voted for everything being available for everyone. I hate gatekeeping content and I didn’t back this game just to get a fucking exclusive weapon and boss fight. I backed this project to help get the spiritual successor to my favorite game of all time get made. It’s nice I’m getting that extra content too but I don’t care if they’re selling it for $10 for everyone else. I really don’t care.
And to those claiming this is the same as “stealing from your backers” need to take a big glass of grow the eff up and stop being so entitled.
I can’t wait for the game to come out so we can all put this embarrassing episode behind us.
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Cale
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Post by Cale on May 29, 2019 3:54:05 GMT -6
If only people weren't entitled. I am so sick of these petulant children complaining that they deserve the backer exclusive content because they were late to back the game. Grow the eff up.
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 5:15:18 GMT -6
Yeah, it's funny how backers are supposedly "selfish and greedy" for wanting what was promised to them, but somehow the people paying retail aren't selfish or greedy for demanding things they missed out on or else they're gonna pirate the whole game (supposedly).
Seriously, if your game is ruined, RUINED because the people who put up their money in advance to have the game made have something you don't, you're the entitled one, not them.
And hey, at least you got a game for your platform, people paying retail! I'm glad I was able to help that happen for you when I PAID IN ADVANCE AND DIDN'T EVEN GET THE FREAKING GAME FOR MINE. But I'M the bad guy because I wanted my money back???
Yeah 505, your silence is deafening here. Nothing to say eh? I'll take your silence as admission of guilt.
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 5:17:47 GMT -6
Jesus Christ the drama never ends! As a $125 backer I voted for everything being available for everyone. I hate gatekeeping content and I didn’t back this game just to get a fucking exclusive weapon and boss fight. I backed this project to help get the spiritual successor to my favorite game of all time get made. It’s nice I’m getting that extra content too but I don’t care if they’re selling it for $10 for everyone else. I really don’t care. And to those claiming this is the same as “stealing from your backers” need to take a big glass of grow the eff up and stop being so entitled. I can’t wait for the game to come out so we can all put this embarrassing episode behind us. You should have your copy of the game cancelled and get no refund, THEN you get to call ME entitled. YOU are getting what you paid for.
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 7:45:04 GMT -6
Pardon my French, but OH MY FUCKING GOD. Are you serious?! MODERN REFUND SYSTEMS?!? Anti-consumer practices, like say CANCELLING SOMEONE'S RELEASE WITHOUT REFUND? What a complete hypocrite. 505, you write me a $60 check, NOW.
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Post by gunlord500 on May 29, 2019 8:21:01 GMT -6
Yeah, it's funny how backers are supposedly "selfish and greedy" for wanting what was promised to them, but somehow the people paying retail aren't selfish or greedy for demanding things they missed out on or else they're gonna pirate the whole game (supposedly). Seriously, if your game is ruined, RUINED because the people who put up their money in advance to have the game made have something you don't, you're the entitled one, not them. And hey, at least you got a game for your platform, people paying retail! I'm glad I was able to help that happen for you when I PAID IN ADVANCE AND DIDN'T EVEN GET THE FREAKING GAME FOR MINE. But I'M the bad guy because I wanted my money back??? Yeah 505, your silence is deafening here. Nothing to say eh? I'll take your silence as admission of guilt. Browren, keep in mind that the person youre responding to is calling "entitled" complaints over the IGA boss and swordwhip no longer being exclusive. I think pretty much everybody still sympathizes with the plight of mac and linux backers, at least from the point about not getting refunds. But yes, in general, lets not call a lot of our backers who are understandably upset insulting names. This goes for all participants, everyone. That said, again, browren, just to make sure, you are getting a Steam copy of the game, right? I think we discussed before a few months ago that the game could still play on Proton and Wine, right? IIRC your complaint was that the game might not be officially supported on Proton and Wine, but it should be at least playable, I think.
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 8:51:18 GMT -6
I disagree. Aztec has a well-documented history of telling Linux and Mac backers to shut up and die on the hill so that everyone else can have their game sooner. Go read his post history. There's no evidence but I'm actually kind of suspicious that he works for 505 to help control discussions. My copy is not steam, but GOG DRM-free. Next you'll tell me they've canceled that also. The game isn't supported on Linux or Mac. If it works on Wine or Proton, it's not through any effort 505's made. I think it's abundantly clear now that they never did any work at all on Linux or Mac at all and are only in this for the money, and don't care one iota about any promises made to backers. There's no technical issue, it's purely money, and if it DOES just magically work on Wine, there was never a technical issue to begin with. It's actually kind of sad; if I'd been refunded, I probably would have bought the Steam version and sat happily making Wine patches until it worked, and spent my leftover $15 on coffee, or maybe even tried to get one of those metal cases. They would have gotten more sales from my effort, too. But instead, they decided that $60 was too high a price to pay to get themselves out of obligations they'd made, so now we're enemies. Angel-Corlux isn't answering me because he knows he's a hypocrite. He's made other posts so I'm sure he's seen mine. I had intended on joining the Discord and speaking to him directly in public there, but it looks like I've been pre-emptively banned from the server. So, I'll say it here: Tell me why I shouldn't do exactly what you've said you did. 505's bullshit anti-consumer practices are just the tip of the iceberg, man. You lied about a technical problem, you too my cash and refused to refund it, and now you're giving away backer perks for substantially less than we paid, making it impossible for me to recoup any money by selling to someone else. YOU explain to me what's different about your situation then, and mine now.
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 9:07:37 GMT -6
P.S. I am NOT ADVOCATING PIRACY. I am asking Angel-Corlux to explain why he felt justified committing piracy in the past and why his reasons do not apply to my situation.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 29, 2019 9:13:28 GMT -6
I had intended on joining the Discord and speaking to him directly in public there, but it looks like I've been pre-emptively banned from the server. I don't think that's possible. What you probably ran into is the security setting we added a few days ago - Must have a verified email on your discord account and be a member for longer than 10 mins For everyone else, it's been a while since I last said it, so I'll add it for this thread - don't engage browren on this, he only wants to hear from 505 Games on it, and it's their choice to reply again or not. I'm sorry, but that is the best way to avoid fighting unnecessarily on the forum and that's what we both want. edit: I checked with the staff about this first and one of them pointed out that's probably what this was (the others tend to know more about discord than myself)
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Post by Mr. Welldone on May 29, 2019 9:15:54 GMT -6
browren, my man.
I get it. Something you loved and thought would be awesome turned into a personalized shitshow.
I'd be right there with you if I hadn't done the exact same thing to good people. I fired them.
Folks with kids, dying relatives, emotional grief. Good, hard-working people in hard times. I fired them.
Why? Because I work for a business, and success as a business includes cutting losses.
They were mad. Some made threats. I quietly 'forgot' the threats to not add to the stress to their lives that police showing up at the door causes.
Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*.
While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way.
Just let it go.
You aren't going to right any universal wrongs here. Also, in letting it go, the future may hold an opportunity to enjoy the game in a different way at a vastly cheaper cost. If you let this rage sour you, you're doing a disservice to the you in the past that donated to the cause and was excited to play this.
Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 29, 2019 9:21:46 GMT -6
^ That post can stay. You're good Welldone. i'm sure we were typing at the same time and it's a nice thought ;p
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 9:24:46 GMT -6
I had intended on joining the Discord and speaking to him directly in public there, but it looks like I've been pre-emptively banned from the server. I don't think that's possible. What you probably ran into is the security setting we added a few days ago - Must have a verified email on your discord account and be a member for longer than 10 mins I've been a Discord user for several years now and have a verified email address since the first day.
If it's not that I've been blocked, then the invite link in the most recent update on Kickstarter doesn't work for some reason. I'll mess with it.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 29, 2019 9:40:00 GMT -6
Try this discord.gg/dhuBm7Rperhaps the older ones aren't working because we changed security settings? Not sure
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 9:41:44 GMT -6
Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on. I'm not going anywhere until 505 refunds my money or admits there's never been any technical problem and it's just greed.
Maybe for you it's just another "business decision" but for me, they've insulted and besmirched the platform I've spent the last two decades of my life helping to make, they've taken my money and given me nothing, and they are definitely not my employers making a hard business decision, they're thieves. The whole thing could have been resolved for peanuts compared to what they're going to pocket selling our backer perks, and still it's too much to ask.
I'm not betraying any previous beliefs. I was happy to back the game because they had committed to a linux version. If they hadn't, I would have waited until the Windows version came out and then worked on Wine compatibility instead.
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Post by browren on May 29, 2019 9:46:53 GMT -6
thanks purifyweirdshard but no joy there - I've turned off all adblocking, tried two browsers, and it's simply not letting me in. I'll write up a Discord ticket. Thanks for the help.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 29, 2019 12:46:46 GMT -6
browren, my man. I get it. Something you loved and thought would be awesome turned into a personalized shitshow. I'd be right there with you if I hadn't done the exact same thing to good people. I fired them. Folks with kids, dying relatives, emotional grief. Good, hard-working people in hard times. I fired them. Why? Because I work for a business, and success as a business includes cutting losses. They were mad. Some made threats. I quietly 'forgot' the threats to not add to the stress to their lives that police showing up at the door causes. Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go. You aren't going to right any universal wrongs here. Also, in letting it go, the future may hold an opportunity to enjoy the game in a different way at a vastly cheaper cost. If you let this rage sour you, you're doing a disservice to the you in the past that donated to the cause and was excited to play this. Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on. Your assessment is correct (if we look at this from the business side of things). Despite me disagreeing with their decision, I sympathize that's it's too good for them to not pass up this opportunity. But, even if minor there are always consequences and even if this would make an almost irrelevant difference, I for one will not back any future projects and just get whatever I want at the end like the average consumer. You're advocating pragmatism (in the business side of things) well that applies in both ends of the spectrum. Instead of letting them hold my money for years I'll just exercise my right and swoop in at the end. When this is all over depending on what they decide in regards to import fees for us overseas buyers (they have changed the shipment from 1 to 3 for those that backed high tiers for the collectables) I'll make a video (I run a youtube channel) objectively sharing my whole experience the bad and the good, with my verdict being set in stone from what I've learnt. It could very well make little difference to the big picture, but it is all I can do, at least educate people if they want to sign up for something similar. Plus it will make for a good video.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 29, 2019 15:53:26 GMT -6
browren, my man. I get it. Something you loved and thought would be awesome turned into a personalized shitshow. I'd be right there with you if I hadn't done the exact same thing to good people. I fired them. Folks with kids, dying relatives, emotional grief. Good, hard-working people in hard times. I fired them. Why? Because I work for a business, and success as a business includes cutting losses. They were mad. Some made threats. I quietly 'forgot' the threats to not add to the stress to their lives that police showing up at the door causes. Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go. You aren't going to right any universal wrongs here. Also, in letting it go, the future may hold an opportunity to enjoy the game in a different way at a vastly cheaper cost. If you let this rage sour you, you're doing a disservice to the you in the past that donated to the cause and was excited to play this. Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on. (they have changed the shipment from 1 to 3 for those that backed high tiers for the collectables) About that, I don't think it was said explicitly that there would be 3 shipments. How I'm reading this is that there will be a total of 2, and one of the reasons for there being 2 is waiting on the Amano poster to be done. I think 3 may or may not be necessary depending on how long it takes for him to finish it, but for right now I see in those paragraphs "All the backer rewards aside from the physical copies of the game will arrive later in a single shipment", so if at all possible for all parties, two makes the most sense.
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