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Post by hyugakojiro on May 18, 2019 12:36:25 GMT -6
RichterB my first impression of the game wasn't very positive having just completed SCV4 based on differences in the way the characters handle and the visual/audio design of the game. The turning point for me and what got me to appreciate the game was playing through stage 3 (leaning tower of Pisa) which for its time sports both excellent level design, platforming concept and execution. The stage is amazing even today and makes you wonder what impression that stage left on a player when the game first released. While Bloodlines doesn't feature as much freedom of movement as SCV4 it's still a fun game to play once you adjust to the way the characters play and you learns the ins and outs of the stages and bosses and you're able to adjust to the game's difficulty. This is very similar to how Sekiro was for me which I recently finished playing. Setting aside the awe of seeing things for the first time, the NG+ runs were a lot more fun for me. Knowing what to expect gave me the chance to truly appreciate what the game had to offer besides its difficulty. The number of midboss encounters also kind of reminds of Sekiro which sets the game apart from the other CVs of its time. It's been a while since I played Dracula X but to me its essentially an NES CV with SNES quality graphics and music and minor quality of life improvements. If the game had been released before SCV4 I think it would have enjoyed a much better reputation than it has today. Rondo is similar to Bloodlines in that it lacks many of the freedoms introduced by SCV4 but to me the overall in experience of playing Rondo is similar to SCV4 and SotN where you get to play a moderately easy but enjoyable game while being treated to beautiful music and visuals. I never had the opportunity to play Adventure Rebirth so I can't talk to that game's qualities. Since you've played it how does it compare to say CV Chronicles on the PSX?
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Post by RichterB on May 18, 2019 14:41:42 GMT -6
RichterB my first impression of the game wasn't very positive having just completed SCV4 based on differences in the way the characters handle and the visual/audio design of the game. The turning point for me and what got me to appreciate the game was playing through stage 3 (leaning tower of Pisa) which for its time sports both excellent level design, platforming concept and execution. The stage is amazing even today and makes you wonder what impression that stage left on a player when the game first released. While Bloodlines doesn't feature as much freedom of movement as SCV4 it's still a fun game to play once you adjust to the way the characters play and you learns the ins and outs of the stages and bosses and you're able to adjust to the game's difficulty. This is very similar to how Sekiro was for me which I recently finished playing. Setting aside the awe of seeing things for the first time, the NG+ runs were a lot more fun for me. Knowing what to expect gave me the chance to truly appreciate what the game had to offer besides its difficulty. The number of midboss encounters also kind of reminds of Sekiro which sets the game apart from the other CVs of its time. It's been a while since I played Dracula X but to me its essentially an NES CV with SNES quality graphics and music and minor quality of life improvements. If the game had been released before SCV4 I think it would have enjoyed a much better reputation than it has today. Rondo is similar to Bloodlines in that it lacks many of the freedoms introduced by SCV4 but to me the overall in experience of playing Rondo is similar to SCV4 and SotN where you get to play a moderately easy but enjoyable game while being treated to beautiful music and visuals. I never had the opportunity to play Adventure Rebirth so I can't talk to that game's qualities. Since you've played it how does it compare to say CV Chronicles on the PSX? What you're about to read is pretty scatterbrained. Sorry, I'm fighting a cold and so I'm not the most coherent right now...but...
Yeah, the design philosophies are so different in these games, and each has their own graphical pros and cons that it makes them tricky to assess. I enjoyed reading your really honest thoughts there. There seems to be a growing, retroactive movement on the internet to put Bloodlines ahead of SCV4, and I don't know if I'd ever, ever go that far, despite finding Bloodline's eccentricities to be delightful. (Stages 2 and 3 are maybe my favorites; though the way Stage 1 shakes up the idea of Dracula's Castle, with that bone staircase and such is very striking as well.) I hopefully will get a chance to go hands-on with the collection later today and reassess Bloodlines. I think you're right about Dracula X. The thing that always surprises me is that Bloodlines came out after Rondo. My mind always wants to tell me it came out right after SCV4.
As for Adventure Rebirth...I have complicated thoughts about it. I adored it when it first came out, because it brought back Classicvania, and despite clearly being a budget title, it had some thought put into it. As time has gone on, though, I'm not quite as in love with it. It does just enough to be interesting, but not quite enough to shake the feeling that it's not firing on all cylinders. (I'd take SCV4 or Dracula X over it, for example...and probably Bloodlines, too.) In terms of Castlevania Chronicles, I think Adventure Rebirth is somewhat better overall. Visually, Chronicles is much more rich, having more of a SCV4 approach, whereas Adventure Rebirth is more cartoony, like Dawn of Sorrow. (When it first came out, I remember saying it was somewhere between Bloodlines and Circle of the Moon visually, so it's hard to nail down its aesthetic.) To be honest, I forgot that technically Chronicles should be in the discussion of the 16-bit entries. I never really cared much for Chronicles; aside from a few interesting ideas, it just felt like a downgraded SCV4 to me. I think what bothered me most about Adventure Rebirth was how it only had token references to GB version of The Adventure, a game which, despite its control issues, has a number of interesting wrinkles to it, I feel. What makes The Adventure Rebirth compelling is all its different options and modes, and its use of keys. Every difficulty setting changes the level layout and/or enemy placement, or some other aspect. Hard Mode is equivalent to non-arranged Chronicles, but also has the most to see in terms of traps, platforms, and enemies. The game uses keys like Dracula X and Rondo, but they're integrated in a different way. They give you access to in-level shortcuts and score increases for extra lives that become more and more important on harder difficulty settings. I eventually went on to compare how each level changes in different modes: castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=2625.msg47358#msg47358 There's also a motion-control mode that works surprisingly well for a novel bonus experience. Here was my reassessment of Adventure Rebirth from 2015 to give you a feel for the game: If you have a specific question about controls or something, let me know.
I'm tempted to say this about the 16-bit/16-bit-esque era, but it comes down to what you value for ranking:
SCV4 Dracula X Bloodlines Rondo Adventure Rebirth Chronicles
(Rondo's segmented level designs, where they can sometimes abruptly end, even after a few screens, never fully clicked with me, so it's actually a pretty close toss-up between Adventure Rebirth and Rondo for that 4 spot.)
About the collection, though. Funny thing about the controls discussion, I just realized that GBA had almost the same NES-style layout, including a slight angle to the buttons where the lower one was attack.
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Post by tav7623 on May 18, 2019 16:55:08 GMT -6
Congrats on beating Simon's Quest.
-Any word on the controls? Some people say they are horrible for the NES games, but I looked at the mapping of B and A as attack and jump, and that's the same as the NES, the only difference being the angle of the buttons. (I've heard people saying "A" should be attack, but that makes no sense to me. I remember they flipped the buttons on the Mega Man Anniversary Collection for Gamecube, and that was awful.)
-I heard that the Level 5 bug is due to them using the wrong ROM, which was known to have this glitch when sprites overload the screen. Don't know if it's true or not.
-I'm also hearing that CV1's Stage 2 has a sound bug.
I'm trying to figure out if my low-grade computer can handle this game. It could handle Curse of the Moon, but it chugged big time with the two Ritual of the Night demos. I will want to fire up Bloodlines with this collection, so it could be more demanding. Not sure.
Thanks! since my last post I’ve also beaten both GB Castlevania games for the first time. As far as the controls for the NES games go they were fine to me even though it took me a little getting used to playing it on a Dual Shock controller and while it would have been nice to be able to do custom button mapping it wasn't a big deal to me. So far the only bugs I encountered was the one I mentioned in my original post and one in Castlevania Adventure which was similar to the one I encountered in CV1 only without the screeching audio, but in that instance I think it was caused by me bringing up the options menu & pressing a few other buttons simultaneously/in quick succession so that may have been what happened with CV1. If you were able to run Curse of the Moon on your PC then I would this collection (even the SNES & Genesis games) should run just fine on it.
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Post by tav7623 on May 18, 2019 19:37:57 GMT -6
Yeah, the design philosophies are so different in these games, and each has their own graphical pros and cons that it makes them tricky to assess. I enjoyed reading your really honest thoughts there. There seems to be a growing, retroactive movement on the internet to put Bloodlines ahead of SCV4, and I don't know if I'd ever, ever go that far, despite finding Bloodline's eccentricities to be delightful. (Stages 2 and 3 are maybe my favorites; though the way Stage 1 shakes up the idea of Dracula's Castle, with that bone staircase and such is very striking as well.) I hopefully will get a chance to go hands-on with the collection later today and reassess Bloodlines. I think you're right about Dracula X. The thing that always surprises me is that Bloodlines came out after Rondo. My mind always wants to tell me it came out right after SCV4.
I think the main reason for the retroactive movement in regards to Bloodlines is due to people like Jeremy Parish posting articles on sites such as Polygon (and in gaming forums) touting the game as a long forgotten gem and bringing up the fact that it was one of a handful of Castlevania games that (prior to this release & the upcoming Genesis mini) had never been re-released on another platform before which got more people interested in going back and checking it out.
Now that you've played Bloodlines have you played the sequel Potrait of Ruin on the Nintendo DS and if not did playing Bloodlines make you inclined to want to go check it out?
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Post by freddythemonkey on May 19, 2019 1:28:26 GMT -6
I'm close to completing both SC4 and Bloodlines for the first time (I used to play them on emulator with my older brother but I was way too young back then to remember them properly) and I have to say I do prefer the latter to the former.
SC4 has unparalleled atmosphere for a classicvania. Moody, ominous soundtrack with graphics so beautiful and full of details they're unreal. Controlling Simon is also pretty satisfying with all the stuff he can pull off. But the game feels very unbalanced to me. Subweapons are more than situational because the whip is almost too versatile, and it seems like the design is classic without accommodating for the new controls and proportions. The vast majority of the game is too easy, while on the other hand some jumps are frustrating because they seem to ignore the fact that you are controlling a bigger character than usual. I also don't like the fact that colliding a few pixels with a platform above you stops Simon dead in his tracks and that it seems to happen more often than usual. It's a great game, no doubt, but those things are big flaws for me personally.
Bloodlines, on the other hand, I'm adoring pretty much all around. It just has few stages and no major branching paths and some sound effects are kinda weird, but everything else is stellar. Levels are so diverse and creative, long and with an abundance of different obstacles and mini bosses. They feel very dense, complete and all around satisfying. I like the fact that sub weapons have this mini item crash that makes them useful in various situation with a modest cost. There is also the ultimate upgrade for nuking rooms. Also, the soundtrack and graphics are still phenomenal (in a different way to SC4) and the difficulty level is just fine. Clearing the game on normal without using passwords is challenging (maybe the final stages are too punishing because they don't seem to have any health refills or maybe I just haven't found them) but most of the time death feels fair and not frustrating. I also like how different the characters feel even though they have only minor moveset differences all things considered. It might as well be my favorite retrovania!
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Post by RichterB on May 19, 2019 9:39:44 GMT -6
Collection is up and running smoothly! Controls are spot-on. Very, very satisfied. It's sort of surreal, actually. If SNES Dracula X was on this, it'd be perfect for me. tav7623 I have played (but not beaten) Bloodlines. I like it a lot, and will be playing it the most for now. Really great to play it with a controller; it plays a lot faster and tighter than I remembered from my limited experiences with it in the past. I have also 100% cleared Portrait of Ruin, which I thought was entertaining and had a great concept with the dual characters, though was not a personal favorite of mine overall. (I thought the stand-alone painting levels should have played more like a Classicvania to represent its connection to Bloodlines.) I'm happy this collection includes the GB entries. I like them both a good deal, even with the sluggish control issues in The Adventure. They just have a lot of clever, unique ideas. freddythemonkey I hear what you're saying. There's trade-offs, but you said former over the latter, so you're going with SCV4 even though you really like Bloodlines? Fun little fact that's come out of this collection...
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Post by freddythemonkey on May 19, 2019 10:37:52 GMT -6
RichterB lol no I prefer Bloodlines but I'd just woken up when I wrote that and my brain just malfunctioned haha
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Post by hyugakojiro on May 19, 2019 11:24:07 GMT -6
RichterB Good to hear you were able to pick up a copy and are thoroughly enjoying it. Also thanks for the detailed analysis of Adventure Rebirth. Hopefully Konami will re-release it, maybe on the next collection (fingers crossed), because it sounds like a very interesting game. Managed to beat Bloodlines with both characters now and it's certainly a great game but I don't think it will ever dethrone SCV4 as my favorite Classicvania. To me the things that stand out most for Bloodlines are it's unique level design and enemy and boss character designs that are refreshing but one of the things I would have enjoyed gameplay wise would be more areas that require John Morris' whipslinging move. Eric Lecarde's spear jump by contrast is a lot more useful by comparison (and virtually turns the game into a cake walk if you decide to use it to its full potential). Also in retrospect some of the bosses are virtually perfect encounters like the gear boss in the munitions factory while other bosses and sub-bosses essentially only have a single attack. Definitely a title I'll return to in the future. Once I've played the other games I'll give expert mode a try. freddythemonkey Let me know if you find that wallmeat in the later stages. Was looking for it as well to no avail
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Post by RichterB on May 19, 2019 14:17:28 GMT -6
So, I open this up to everyone: playing these older Castlevania entries, is there anything you felt should have been integrated into IGA's games over the years (or even now)? Or do you just consider them permanently two different things? Also, what will a second collection look like? Are we talking IGA collection (with Circle of the Moon by KCEK), or are we looking at a continuation of the classic entries? Vampire Killer MSX, Dracula X, Rondo, Chronicles, Kid Dracula GB, DXC, Legends, Adventure Rebirth--that's eight titles, for example. Or will it be some mix of the two? freddythemonkey Don't worry about it. I know the feeling. Still trying to beat back this cold. Regardless, I've played so much of SCV4 over the years rather than Bloodlines, having had access to the original SCV4 game/hardware, that I need more time to compare the two. I think I'm still on SCV4's side, but Bloodlines is top-tier, for sure. hyugakojiro Impressive taking down Bloodlines like that. It's no easy feat. The limited continues thing is definitely something to get used to. You and Freddy both gave really good feedback about Bloodlines. Eventually when I feel I've played enough, and I'm feeling 100%, I'll try to put down some more comprehensive thoughts on it. I will say that John's whipslinging move is incredibly liberating. To be able to swing across ceilings without grapple points is awesome. You can even use it on the first boss to mix up the encounter, though you really don't need to it beat him. I think there's been a problem in the series of integrating this move fully, both in Bloodlines and SCV4, but I always felt it should remain a staple. One thing I don't understand is why you can jump and whip downward, but not jump and whip diagonally downward like in Chronicles. Eric is crazy. He's sort of the "easier" mode? He has so many moves. There's even a thing where you can spin and reverse his spear after you thrust it with a Street Fighter-like motion. I need to read the manual to make sure I know what I'm doing with all this. I still haven't figured out how to consistently use the new item crash and the super-powered whip crash moves. Having a third face button for the sub-weapon feels great, though. By the way, from the interview I read a while back about SCV4, IIRC, the director of SCV4 advised the Mega Drive/Genesis team at times on Bloodlines. The aesthetic of Bloodlines, with all the colorful and kooky juxtapositions, kind of brings Harmony of Dissonance to mind, slightly. Also, this isn't too important...but I get the feeling this Bloodlines game had an affect on the Castlevania 64 team. There's a bit of a "steampunk" vibe to both on some level, the munitions factory no doubt gave inspiration to the otherwise odd motorcycle skeletons in CV64, and the lightning whip returned as the most-powered-up whip in Legacy of Darkness. Plus, Bloodlines beta version originally had a lava area and a blimp area, which CV64 has references to in the Tower of Execution and the Castle Center, respectively. Oh, and Reinhardt started with a whipslinging move, too, though it never made it into the final build of the game, sadly. I still feel like I wasn't able to give as clear of an opinion on Adventure Rebirth as I would have liked, but it's sort of a mashup game (by M2, no less!) that's hard to fully describe. I'm going to give it one more go: It really isn't a remake of Adventure or Belmont's Revenge; it's a whole new game, kind of the Rondo to Dracula X situation, but more so. I mean, there's not even ropes in the game! Only the title screen theme from the GB The Adventure makes it into the actual game's OST (though Battle of the Holy is on the soundtrack CD or something), and the only other songs related to Christopher are actually from Belmont's Revenge, and one of those is the ending theme. Even so, the soundtrack is amazing, despite its bizarre decision not to use music from the game it's actually "rebirthing." I think stage 3 feels the most like The Adventure overall, with 1 and 2 having vestiges. But by the time you get to stage 4, it's completely its own thing. Anyway, you can control your jumps in mid-air by default (though you can turn that off in the options), and Christopher's whip can only strike forward like it could in the Game Boy games, though has a wider hit box now. His flame-shooting whip is only a temporary power-up now. He has all the classic Castlevania subweapons, which behave mostly like their NES counterparts. He can't jump on or off stairs. I think what a person has to know most going in is the stages are super-long marathons if played straight-up. Wait, I've got it! Here we go: The Adventure Rebirth is setup like Curse of the Moon, except keys and broken walls substitute for having characters like Gebel or Alfred or Miriam at the right time to take a shorter or more rewarding path. The only thing that's off about this, and it's a problem Curse of the Moon has, too, to some extent, is that by putting a premium on shortcuts, especially in harder modes where they are a must, it means there are some interesting set pieces and/or mid-bosses you can skip over. Like, it doesn't really benefit the player not to take the shortcuts once they know about them (or can successfully execute them in some cases, since some have very short platforming windows). Anyway, it's a fascinating game, well worth playing, just not necessarily as spectacular overall as its brethren, and I hope it gets re-released for everyone.
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Post by tav7623 on May 19, 2019 16:34:03 GMT -6
So, I open this up to everyone: playing these older Castlevania entries, is there anything you felt should have been integrated into IGA's games over the years (or even now)? Or do you just consider them permanently two different things? Also, what will a second collection look like? Are we talking IGA collection (with Circle of the Moon by KCEK), or are we looking at a continuation of the classic entries? Vampire Killer MSX, Dracula X, Rondo, Chronicles, Kid Dracula GB, DXC, Legends, Adventure Rebirth--that's eight titles, for example. Or will it be some mix of the two? The only thing (outside of taking the control scheme from Super Castlevania IV and applying it to the GBA games) from the older games that I really wish had made it into the IGA Castlevania games was the ability to use the whip to traverse parts of the castle ala Bloodlines & Super Castlevania IV when you have a whip equipped. As far as a second collection is concerned I feel it will feature IGA's GBA & DS games and not Rondo or SotN (even though I'd quadruple dip on them in heartbeat), it would also probably include Castlevania Legends, Harmony of Despair as well as either Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of the Night or maybe the cell phone game Order of Shadows. Now the reason why I don't think they will include Rondo or SotN in one of these collections is because they technically are already in a collection of their own (the Requiem Collection) so I have a feeling they'll probably port that to other consoles/platforms instead. Now if they ever ended up doing a 3rd Castlevania collection I think it would probably contain all the 3D games in the series so CV 64, CV 64: Legacy of Darkness, Lament of Innocence, Curse of Darkness, both Lords of Shadow games (complete with all DLC), and maybe Judgement though it would be a really nice surprise if it also contained a completed/finished version of the cancelled Dreamcast game Castlevania Ressurection.
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Post by hyugakojiro on May 19, 2019 16:34:44 GMT -6
Impressive taking down Bloodlines like that. It's no easy feat. The limited continues thing is definitely something to get used to. You and Freddy both gave really good feedback about Bloodlines. Eventually when I feel I've played enough, and I'm feeling 100%, I'll try to put down some more comprehensive thoughts on it. I will say that John's whipslinging move is incredibly liberating. To be able to swing across ceilings without grapple points is awesome. You can even use it on the first boss to mix up the encounter, though you really don't need to it beat him. I think there's been a problem in the series of integrating this move fully, both in Bloodlines and SCV4, but I always felt it should remain a staple. One thing I don't understand is why you can jump and whip downward, but not jump and whip diagonally downward like in Chronicles. Eric is crazy. He's sort of the "easier" mode? He has so many moves. There's even a thing where you can spin and reverse his spear after you thrust it with a Street Fighter-like motion. I need to read the manual to make sure I know what I'm doing with all this. I still haven't figured out how to consistently use the new item crash and the super-powered whip crash moves. Having a third face button for the sub-weapon feels great, though. By the way, from the interview I read a while back about SCV4, IIRC, the director of SCV4 advised the Mega Drive/Genesis team at times on Bloodlines. A helpful tip for beating the game is going into the options menu and increasing your lives to 5. Wouldn't have beaten the game as fast as I did without it. The game is similar to the NES CVs in that it requires memorization and good execution on the players end. Playing the game on the standard 2 lives (?) is just asking for extra punishment.
And yes I can only second your advice to read the game manual. On my first play-through with John I wasn't aware of the item crash ability and it would have made things a lot easier if I had read the manual. When I read it after beating the game I immediately recalled all the times where it would have been helpful to clear out tricky areas especially when low on health as is often the case.
Not sure I've yet to discover the spear reversal you mentioned for Eric. The only special input command I'm aware of is pressing or holding (?) the attack button again after attacking to add another hit to your initial attack.
As far as future CV collections go I'd prefer the next collection completed the 2D Classicvanias, and then move onto the Igavanias (SotN, GBA and DS titles) and then go for the N64, PS2, PS3 titles from there.
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Post by tav7623 on May 19, 2019 17:00:07 GMT -6
Impressive taking down Bloodlines like that. It's no easy feat. The limited continues thing is definitely something to get used to. You and Freddy both gave really good feedback about Bloodlines. Eventually when I feel I've played enough, and I'm feeling 100%, I'll try to put down some more comprehensive thoughts on it. I will say that John's whipslinging move is incredibly liberating. To be able to swing across ceilings without grapple points is awesome. You can even use it on the first boss to mix up the encounter, though you really don't need to it beat him. I think there's been a problem in the series of integrating this move fully, both in Bloodlines and SCV4, but I always felt it should remain a staple. One thing I don't understand is why you can jump and whip downward, but not jump and whip diagonally downward like in Chronicles. Eric is crazy. He's sort of the "easier" mode? He has so many moves. There's even a thing where you can spin and reverse his spear after you thrust it with a Street Fighter-like motion. I need to read the manual to make sure I know what I'm doing with all this. I still haven't figured out how to consistently use the new item crash and the super-powered whip crash moves. Having a third face button for the sub-weapon feels great, though. By the way, from the interview I read a while back about SCV4, IIRC, the director of SCV4 advised the Mega Drive/Genesis team at times on Bloodlines. A helpful tip for beating the game is going into the options menu and increasing your lives to 5. Wouldn't have beaten the game as fast as I did without it. The game is similar to the NES CVs in that it requires memorization and good execution on the players end. Playing the game on the standard 2 lives (?) is just asking for extra punishment.
And yes I can only second your advice to read the game manual. On my first play-through with John I wasn't aware of the item crash ability and it would have made things a lot easier if I had read the manual. When I read it after beating the game I immediately recalled all the times where it would have been helpful to clear out tricky areas especially when low on health as is often the case.
Not sure I've yet to discover the spear reversal you mentioned for Eric. The only special input command I'm aware of is pressing or holding (?) the attack button again after attacking to add another hit to your initial attack.
As far as future CV collections go I'd prefer the next collection completed the 2D Classicvanias, and then move onto the Igavanias (SotN, GBA and DS titles) and then go for the N64, PS2, PS3 titles from there.
I think he's referring to the move at the 1 min 5 second mark in this video
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Post by hyugakojiro on May 19, 2019 17:42:07 GMT -6
tav7623 Thanks for posting this. Need to try this out next time I play the game.
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Post by RichterB on May 19, 2019 19:01:35 GMT -6
tav7623 That is exactly the move I was talking about. I didn't realize you could spam it like that. Yikes. I didn't see it in the manual, though. As for whip-swinging in IGA's games, I think I saw he added it finally in Harmony of Despair...but not exactly the best place to use it, probably. Anyway, hyugakojiro , I'm focusing mostly on John's quest right now, after sampling both characters. I noticed you can up the lives, and I almost did, but I stuck with 2, just because I guess the creators thought that was the default. It's extreme as you say. But in about an hour, in one playthrough, I got to the Palace of Versailles...where I got ambushed and crushed by a falling chandelier on my final continue. The Gear Golem ate up a lot of my lives before I realized its weak spot-- a very Genesis kind of thing with the ball joint . But you were right, the attack pattern on that one was genius. I also lost a lot of lives on the Gargoyle at the end of the (incredible) Tower of Pisa; kept getting knocked off. (That fight had shades of a certain Curse of the Moon fight, IIRC.) But I sailed up to that point pretty well without a continue. Reading the manual was super helpful. The ebook is eye-opening, I thumbed through it, and there was originally a Grant/Sypha hybrid ninja character and viking character to go with John and Eric?! Also, it looks like Rondo's opening stage was originally for Super Castlevania IV, if I saw right. I then jumped over to Simon's Quest for a little bit, and tried a theory of mine. Well, actually, I tested it on the original NES hardware and it worked about a half a year ago, but I never saw through my experiment to its logical conclusion. So, you know how you're forced right by the game at the start? Well, I have successfully gotten left with a combo technique of jumping and attacking in the poison swamp. It's not really game-breaking or glitching; it's just skill- and practice-based, trial-and-error. Now, when I tried it on the NES, I found that I couldn't do a lot of that side of the world without holy water and the right crystal. But I noticed the Morning Star whip could be acquired. So, for the first time ever, on this collection, I bought the Morning Star whip after escaping the swamp, and now I've returned to the starting point of the game with that upgrade, which makes a world of difference. I've never gotten the best ending on this game, but maybe this time I will. Either way, it's fun to find the quest can open up. I haven't experimented to see what other sequence breaks can be done once you have some crystals and holy water. I don't know that I've heard people try this much, but maybe it's common. Lastly, I can confirm the sound glitch and freeze glitch in CV1. I got up to the screen right before the Dracula staircase climb, and it froze on me with too many harpies and fleamen around. Hopefully this will be patched when the Japanese DLC is added in the future. I gotta say, as attractive as the 16-bit games are, and as absolutely amazing as Castlevania III is, I don't often give enough credit to the first two NES games these days. #1 has a great flow to its action, and Simon's Quest is just so atmospheric; it was the first Castlevania game to really capture my attention/imagination way back when. Bottom line, this collection is awesome, and I love how they chose Belmont's Revenge's select sound effect for the opening. That's next-level fandom. I second wanting a collection that finishes up the Classicvanias, though I wouldn't be averse to including SotN in there. To me, it's sort of a transition title, like Simon's Quest, before it actually became a set-in-stone formula for the franchise. Atmosphere-wise, it almost feels more connected to the 16-bit run than what follows. But I imagine if you split up any of the IGAvanias in such a collection, there'd be outrage.
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Post by freddythemonkey on May 20, 2019 0:02:15 GMT -6
hyugakojiro damn man, congrats on beating Bloodlines so fast! My purism of not changing the default options might cause me more frustration than necessary lol but I'm close to do the same with Eric, at least! Last time I got to Elizabeth, I might've arrived to Dracula if I didn't fall like a complete idiot in the Leaning Tower. By the way I should probably avoid SC4 for the time being. Playing it between an attempt on Bloodlines and another on Belmont's Revenge, I treat jumps the same way. They're not the same, though, for better or worse. Twice in a row I got perfectly to Stage 3 in SC4 with seven lives and then wasted all of them because I kept miscalculating the distances or forgetting that if Simon collides even slightly with a block he'll fall like an @sshole. The rage is unreal lol Regarding older titles: Simon's Quest I've never played until now but I'm actually afraid I might have to do it with a guide because I know the horror stories about the localization and the crypticness of the game. CV1 is one of my favorite retrogames and I could finish it without dying because I know it like the back of my hand and I played it a trillion times. It's my favorite of the older games. Castlevania 3, on the other hand, I love/hate. I actually can't wait to try the Japanese version because I find the Western version way more frustrating than fun. I arrived halfway through the game a while back and to be honest I just wasn't enjoying it. The graphics, the varied levels and music are incredible, but the game goes way overboard with the sadism IMO. Especially whenever stairs are involved. I'll still try to beat it as well, but for that one I think I might throw purism aside and use the "HELP ME" code or the save states (which is perfectly fine but I still feel bad about it, as if I'm cheating). EDIT: YES! I've finished Bloodlines (Eric) without using continues at all! Just the lives it gives you in the beginning + the ones I could find in the levels! So satisfying. It helps that the final bosses were a bit of a pushover, even Dracula: they had very simple patterns to recognize and after the headache that the level itself was they were almost a breeze.
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Post by RichterB on May 20, 2019 12:52:46 GMT -6
freddythemonkey : -I don't know where you stand on game experiences, but I would really encourage you to give Simon's Quest a good try without the guide. (Without quantifying it with a rank number, which is sometimes unfair, it's always been a cherished favorite of mine.) The villagers and hint books in the game will give you wild (sometimes false) gossip and non sequiturs alongside legitimate tips and information, but that creates a really organic world that wasn't typical for the time, and still isn't today even in stuff like Breath of the Wild. (Though the way the exploring rewards checking nooks and crannies is similar to Breath of the Wild.) I honestly believe there is maybe only two instances in the game where a guide might be needed--which I had spoiled for me as a kid--but it'd be a good experiment to see if you could figure them out without a guide, because the game actually does have clues, cryptic as they are, to solve those particular puzzles, I believe. Maybe only use the guide when you feel absolutely stumped. It's up to you, but the game is more engrossing when you're wandering and figuring it out--that's kind of the point of this one. The combat/platforming is secondary, and the bosses are...well, pushovers. It's basically an IGAvania, but the platforming is still more consequential than any IGAvania and the world design has a bigger sense of scope/interactivity. (I'm kind of irked IGA or someone else didn't build off this intriguing formula at Konami, whether in 2D or 3D. There are vestiges of its ideas in games, especially SotN and CV64 and LoD, but a full-fledged follow-up wouldn't have been a bad idea.) As I said above, I'm just discovering now some sequence-breaking techniques that add new wrinkles to the game, but the game's quest itself is very memorable. That said, you will at minimum likely need a booklet/manual to tell you about the game's systems--what items do and about the game's hearts being currency, experience points, and powering sub-weapons. Know that when you lose all your lives, your experience points and hearts are set back to zero, but you keep your current level of power. You can find the manual from Nintendo here: www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/index.html In my opinion, by the end of it, it's still one of the most creepy, unsettling entries in the Castlevania franchise, despite it being only 8-bits. Bottom line, while I understand the sentiment, and this no intended offense to anyone, I think this game has gotten an unfair reputation to a large extent and it's created jaded or overly concerned attitudes across the internet toward it that sort of miss the point of the ambitious things the game is trying to do. It's definitely flawed, but not broken, I'd say. -I too am going the pure default route with Bloodlines. Haven't gotten many cracks at it yet, and am using the weaker John, but I've been pleased with my progress so far. Considering I trained enough to beat The Adventure Rebirth on Hard in one sitting, I think I can handle this, given time. I'm trying to decide if passwords you've earned can be used in beating this game. I think that's legit, because it's a part of the game and not technically a save state or change of the default settings you'd have on Genesis. -For SCV4, I just always treat the platforming as I would an NES game, which means being prepared to get to the edge of platform before jumping. You're right, though, that many of these games have to be treated as their own thing, especially if you don't have a lot of experience jumping between them on their original hardware. For this set, I'm lucky enough that I've owned copies of these for a long time, with the exception of Bloodlines and Kid Dracula. I can only imagine how tricky it is to adjust to The Adventure GB's platforming when coming off another game, particularly any past the NES. - I too have trained to be able to fly through CV1 when I used to think it was tough--though Frankenstein's monster and Dracula still trip me up more than I'd like. I've found that holy water is the best sub weapon overall for speed-running, despite the fame of the boomerangs. -CV3 is partially as hard as you want it to be. I've beaten it with all combinations of characters over the years, and I find the North American NES version totally manageable, with the slight exception of the change in checkpoints for the last level, which I admit can be a serious pain, especially the first time through. (Though nowhere remotely near the shenanigans pulled by Ninja Gaiden 1 on NES with its last level, where if you die to the last boss, you get thrown back like two levels.) Here's two tricks to get into the game's groove: 1.) Pick the easiest and shortest path to Dracula by avoiding the lower route as much as possible. (The only reason to stay on the lower route is to meet Alucard and see some new, very memorable, but difficult stages.) There is one path that can reduce the game's length to roughly ten stages, and to get locked on that path, take the pirate ship over to the red tower, not the swamp route. 2.) While staying on that shortest path, choose either Grant or Sypha. (Acquiring/choosing Alucard only makes sense if you're taking the lower, longer route to Dracula, or are looking for a new way to complete the game.) Now, if you choose Grant, you will add one extra stage to your route (the clock tower); the benefit he brings is shortcuts through trickier platforming sections and an agility that feels more like later Castlevanias, but when it comes time for combat, most times you'll want to stick with Trevor and play things like you would in Castlevania 1, maximizing your use of sub-weapons. (The only time Grant has a distinct, overwhelming advantage, I believe, is against Medusa/Snake Man Sentinel mid-boss.) If you aren't going to play with Grant, just ignore the clock tower, saving yourself a stage, and one with a lot of tricky early platforming at that.
Conversely, you can choose Sypha, which again, saves you a stage, and gives you this game's version of Eric Lecarde, in the sense that her spells allow for so many minute-to-minute advantages if you plan ahead. Her ice spell can freeze waterways that complicate platforming and combat, or make stronger enemies one-hit kills after being frozen, or even freeze flying enemies during stair sections, preventing them from causing you trouble. Her fire spell can wreck most ground enemies/bosses, and her lightning spell can quickly wipe out even the toughest, most agile bosses. There will still be challenges and moments of frustration, but the game's more doable and "learnable" if you follow these tips.
I think this variety of play, with consequential choices, is what makes CVIII probably my favorite Castlevania overall. With Curse of the Moon, which tries to emulate it, you have a situation where you can acquire all of the characters or their powers, and that's encouraged. In this one, you have to refuse one helper to get another, and you might not even run across them all depending on what path you choose. It really feels like the perfect hybrid between CV1 and Simon's Quest. Best of luck! -After playing all these games, I must say I am left with no doubt that consequential platforming and Castlevania go hand in hand, and trying to move the series into 3D without acknowledging that, which more or less every 3D attempt after the N64 ones did, is just a losing proposition. I know gamers don't like "jumping" in games as much any more, but the evidence is just overwhelming for this franchise.
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Post by hyugakojiro on May 20, 2019 16:42:29 GMT -6
freddythemonkey Congrats on your continue free run of the game. Very impressive. Agree with the sentiment that these games should be played and completed one game at a time. Heck just switching from one game to the next can be a challenge. Now playing CV3 and I've died numerous times so far trying to climb up steps using an upper diagonal d-pad input (instead of straight up) only to walk off a platform to my untimely death. One tip for platforming/jumping in SCV4 is to take it slow (if the game lets you) and to keep an eye on Simon's sprite. When he's close to falling off a platform his sprite changes its pose to tell you that you're about to fall off. RichterB I think using passwords is fair game considering its a core feature of the game itself. As long as you're having fun and the game is still challenging it shouldn't matter how you approach it. It's not like the game is going to pull a Bushido Blade on you and tell you it's game over before reaching the game's final stretch for violating the game's honor code.
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Post by RichterB on May 21, 2019 0:18:20 GMT -6
freddythemonkey Congrats on your continue free run of the game. Very impressive. ... One tip for platforming/jumping in SCV4 is to take it slow (if the game lets you) and to keep an eye on Simon's sprite. When he's close to falling off a platform his sprite changes its pose to tell you that you're about to fall off. RichterB I think using passwords is fair game considering its a core feature of the game itself. As long as you're having fun and the game is still challenging it shouldn't matter how you approach it. It's not like the game is going to pull a Bushido Blade on you and tell you it's game over before reaching the game's final stretch for violating the game's honor code. Big problem I ran across that I'd heard about on the Castlevania Dungeon Forums. In Stage 4 of Super Castlevania IV, on PC, the flipping green platforms do not react as they do on the normal SNES version--at least for me. I have to double-tap the jump button quickly to jump off the platforms on the stage's second screen (after the stairs) and onward. Otherwise you land, Simon goes into a slight crouch, and you just fall as they rotate. The timing is different (more forgiving) on the SNES; I even checked to make sure. Anyone else have this issue?
As for Bloodlines, failed my second full run in the mirror room of the last stage. Stage 5's latter portions were really costly on my lives/continues.
...But since I've been cleared for passwords, I'll be good.
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Post by tav7623 on May 21, 2019 20:34:27 GMT -6
Since my last post I've beaten Castlevania III multiple times (I did a full game Trevor Only run, then a full game Trevor & Grant run, after those two runs I realized, after seeing someone mention Passwords in this thread, that I could use Passwords to do 2 relatively short playthroughs that startat the final stage with Alucard, then Sypha, and I'm kinda glad I did as it not only saved me some time, but I also discovered that Alucard's normal attack when fully upgrade makes it a lot easier to defeat Dracula's 3rd form without having to use the moving platforms and that Sypha's Fireball spell can really fuck up Dracula's last 2 forms real quick if you have enough hearts), I also beat Super Castlevania IV which was a little bit tougher than I remembered it being (the soundtrack still kicks ass though ) from my first playthrough of the game a few years ago (for some reason I kept getting really fucked up in the Slogra fight, which I for some reason remember being a breeze my first time through the game) and in the process encountered several crashes/freezes fortunately I had gotten in the habit of regularly save stating after the Castlevania 1 debacle (to recap I got halfway through the hallway right before the Death boss fight with minimal damage & holy water without savestating, the game crashed/froze and I had to restart the game completely from scratch) so I was able to start right where I left off once I restarted the game. So all that's left is my personal favorite "Classicvania" game (mainly because it was the first game in the series I played and fell in love with all the way back in 1994), Castlevania Bloodlines and I'm gonna try to challenge myself with this playthrough. First off I'm gonna do 2 full playthroughs, first as Eric Lacarde on Normal Difficulty, then I'm gonna follow it up with an Expert Mode run as John Morris and I'm gonna try to do it without using Passwords or a single Save State (I may also impose a no continues rule, but atm I'm still debating whether or not I want to do that) .
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Post by freddythemonkey on May 22, 2019 1:15:31 GMT -6
RichterB so THAT'S why I was raging so much in that level! Those platforms were hell. Completed Belmont's Revenge yesterday. For the GB it's an impressive game. It's still a bit stiff and levels are somewhat bland but it's pretty tightly designed overall. I noticed a wonky difficulty curve with the bosses, with the main four being really easy and Dracula's Castle bosses being way too trial and error focused. I actually was about to finish the game with no continues but spent my last life on Soleiyu who's pretty tigid in what you can and cannot do without being slaughtered. It wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't burn four lives on the Bone Dragon King, which as a boss it's a complete mess since if you don't memorize the patter exactly you get stuck without any means of avoiding damage. But overall I enjoyed my time with the game.
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