Okay 505, Holiday's over. Time for some answers. (Linux/Mac)

link detection isn't the greatest: kickstarter comment

let me put it this way, would you rather they spent an extra 3 million and 6-9 months fixing whatever incompatability issues they found (which could be anything from a persistent memory leak, bethesda levels of CTDs, a need to restructure the file structure, to unreal itself just refusing to cooperate with mac/linux) ON TOP OF all the bugs theyre already encountering unique to switch/ps4/xbox/pc and risk the game not coming out at all, or they get their hands on the various bootstrap programs and make sure theyre the most compatible pc game out there for maybe 100k in costs and a month of rigorous testing

i get the frustration, especially with how last year went when it came to game publishers, but this isnt that problem, this isnt a bunch of MBAs who dont game running dead studios getting mad that they only made 500 million in 3 days, this isnt activisions marketing team getting greedy and carving up blizzard because "they dont make enough money", this isnt bethesda having its own head up its ass how great they thought their frankenstein of fallout 4s engine with quakes netcode shoved up its ass sideways and ignoring likely all the advice they were given (how do you ask iD for advice on how to make a game and then miss basic resolution support or basic pc options?),

this is IGA and his team encountering issues that we as gamers NEVER see or hear about until maybe a decade later in a developer retrospective but that happen on nearly every multiplatform release ever made, we are seeing developer decisions and hurdles and conversations that would make you wonder how ANY game actually makes it to done in the first place, and we get to see this level of development hurdles because we believed in him back when he was struggling to even get this game outside of concept phase cause none of the stuffed shirts running the publishing companies would give him a chance (btw, Konami owns health insurance companies and have abused that power to deny ex employees coverage, hes basically a ronin in a feudal land of corporate daimyos, nintendo handed out an edict in japan that not only was game rental illegal decades ago now save modification is too and it became law, think on that a moment)

we as gamers often only see the aftermath of these decisions with the pretty trailer with all the nice neat boxes that say what platforms the game will come out on 6 months to a year after that decisions been made, and even then often the non-native ports are released at least a year after the native ones, all i ask is that we calm ourselves and let IGA continue his work

as for that KS comment, what amounts to accusing them of cooking the books is a legal challenge and unless they have cpa certifications or a law degree to back up that claim in court the level of accounting 505 probably has to keep regarding what funds are theirs vs what funds came in from IGAs kickstarter purse just from a standard "we wanna make sure we know how much we spent on this so we make our money back" would make your head spin

"As for the KS comment"
The link works for you? Maybe it's just my phone browser having issues. I don't have the context of the comment, but it sounds like some legal BS. Legally, no refunds are due. This has been explained thoroughly enough so I can't explain that better than its already been explained.

As for evil companies, everything you said is true. At the end of the day though, you have a small amount of people seeking refunds for a legitimate reason, and a publishing company and / or development company not willing to foot the bill for whatever reason that we can't be lead to understand. There is no legal reason for a refund, but there is a moral one, and this is the first legitimate time I've ever heard of IGA being on the wrong side of something like this.

Edit, I just saw PWS provide the context. This argument is invalid. If you are saying the KS TOS doesn't apply because it's not a failed KS, the TOS doesn't come into play in the first place and can't be used to legally get a refund. If you are saying the KS did fail (at least partially) they have obviously covered themselves as 505 described.

On one hand, You are telling us the funds were already spent.
On the other hand , You are quoting back to us the kickstarter policy that we entitled to the refund, So which one is it?

If you can drop the PR mask for a second and try to give a more strict answer in the form of positive or negative.
What steps 505-games/Artplay are TAKING TO ENSURE tools compatibility with the product?

illasera Assume the worst if you wish, but 1100% of what was asked for clearly wasn't enough for the increasing scope of the project, which is why they needed the publisher to provide funding later on.

If there is no pre-existing registry of which users would have opted for the Mac or Linux version, as opposed to GOG and Steam, then a company who's risking a lot of money to bring the game to the market might well be reluctant to allow any user who selected GOG and Steam to ask for a refund due to the lack of native support for Mac and Linux, especially if they feel they don't have any legal liability.

What they did tells me they believed the backlash for canceling native support for those two platforms would, in fact, be less damaging to them in terms of sales than releasing the game in a state which is less polished than it would otherwise be. Whether or not this is the case is something we will never objectively know for sure (unless someone develops a way to look into alternate timelines), but that's what they're betting on.

Now, about the morality of the situation, I would personally not put the blame on IGA without knowing the full story - which, again, for legal reasons we're unlikely to ever know. At the end of the day, it's not even necessarily his call, since it's 505 who's now funding the project.

Ultimately, I think it's clear that refunding Mac and Linux users would be ideal; but I'm not convinced 505 made a morally questionable decision in deciding not to offer refunds. When we tend to look at game companies as selfish entities out to exploit the consumer we tend to forget one very important detail: just as often, consumers themselves are selfish people all too eager to exploit game companies, either because of greed or a misguided sense of entitlement (look no further than piracy as an example, though there are countless others).

The point I'm trying to make - no more than my opinion, obviously, but the same may be said for everybody else - is that without knowing further details about the how and why the decision not to offer refunds was reached (information companies never fully disclose), I would leave it at "it's a real shame they're not offering refunds," and not pass any moral judgement on 505 for their decision. I can easily imagine legitimate reasons for not offering them, such as campaigns to encourage other Steam / GOG users to opt for refunds in solidarity with affected Linux and Mac users, lack of a budget for the logistics involved, the precedent set by covering another company - ArtPlay's - debt when they're not legally bound to, etc. Obviously, it's equally possible the decision came down to one of the higher ups at 505 going "Is ArtPlay doing those two versions? No? then don't offer refunds if we don't need to." 

As for IGA himself, I'm sure he's acting as best as his own moral compass - which doesn't always have to coincide with mine - dictates. Everything I know of him tells me that. His efforts throughout the project tell me that. This is a man who quit his stable job at his longtime employer and has put his family's livelihood at risk for several years now in order to make this game a reality, and deliver the best possible game to the majority of his backers. I have no reason to doubt he and most of the people involved with the project made the best decision they could. The end result was that two platforms were dropped and no refunds were offered. I'll say the situation's regrettable; I won't say he made a morally bad decision. 

I would rather they spent an extra 3 million and 6-9 months fixing things ON TOP OF all the bugs theyre already encountering unique to switch/ps4/xbox/pc and risk the game not coming out at all.

I am a PS4 backer, but I am tired of people not being true to their word. For me everything is about principles, stand by what you say or don't say anything. No one is accountable for anything in this world anymore. I see apologists everywhere, everyday for every aspect of life. If it means Mac/Linux users are left out in the cold I don't want to be a part of the problem, I would rather be part of the solution. I would gladly give up my game if it meant it was developed for the platforms initially stated. But all I see are people echoing "I will get my copy so sucks to be you, too bad." This is not the way people should support each other.

Edit:



The main problem I see is this, people are people, companies are not people, protecting companies as if they were people is sickening.