Okay 505, Holiday's over. Time for some answers. (Linux/Mac)

Thanks for the help.

browren i'm probably wrong, a bit, on what i'm going to say, specially because i'm brazilian, and Brazil works under civil law, unlike US that works under common law and these are very different law systems, but, as far as things goes, in MY understanding, they fullfilled SOME (keep in mind i didn't said all) of those kickstarter demands. Let's analyze what kickstarter says there:

"(...) they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers."

That is exactly what they are doing. They are finding "another way" of bringing the project to the "best possible conclusion" and that means, polishing and finishing the game on the plataforms they can.

"they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;"

They didn't detailed how funds where used, but they explained what work has been done and what prevented them from finishing the project as planned. You may DISLIKE the explanation, but it is there.

"they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;"

That's completely subjective. None of us can know if they are working in good faith and if they are trying to bring the project to the best possible conclusion, aside from really blatant evidences.

"they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;"

That wasn't made, i agree.

"they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers;and"

They didn't made a single material misrepresentation as far as i know. Material misrepresentation means "the act of intentional hiding or fabrication of a material fact which, if known to the other party, could have terminated, or significantly altered the basis of, a contract, deal, or transaction." I would like to see where that happened.

"they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form."

take a look at that sentence. "remaining funds". There is, most probably, NO remaining funds whatsoever. So, they are only obligated to return funds if these funds still exist. Not only that, but the project IS being completed in "some alternate form". They got Wayfoward to work with them,  the game is going under bug hunting and it is being refined. They didn't detailed how these funds are being used, BUT, we can tell how, considering Wayfoward, bug hunting and game refining.

freddythemonkey reputation-wise, yes, it isn't a good movie, i think. But since browren talked about KS regulations and terms, i answered based on law, regulations and terms.

About that some IGAvanias where made with a smaller budget and time, we have to remember that these games were made with a immensely huge and powerful japanese conglomerate behind it. If something goes wrong, within hours he could find anyone, anywhere to fix anything. IGA himself stated that the hardest part of being independent was that, when working with Konami, ANY issue was fixed almost imediatelly because he basically had all the basic resources, aside from money, to work with. While independent, if anything goes wrong, he needs to do several calls to several people to find someone that can fix whatever got wrong and that alone can take days, if not weeks. Money isn't everything when developing a game. If you have a team of experienced developers AND the backup of a major company behind you, bugs and fixes can be resolved quickly, specially at the 90s and early 2000s, when games were still made without the stupid mindset of rushing things to the point of release so many broken games that needs "day one patches".

In case anyone missed the point I shared about this earlier. I'll spare my other post about more speculation/inferring how this situation happened because that's a huge quote and the OP just wants to understandably hear from the publisher. Discussion of that sort can be had in the main thread.


To add, I think it'd lean dangerously close to "everyone".

Completing a project is exactly what it says, complete. Not mostly complete. If you hired a contractor to put a new roof on your home, and he did 80% of it, it's not complete. Backing out of a platform isn't a minor change, and I'm sure the Vita and Wii U backers would agree that the project would not have been complete if they'd just dropped the consoles at the last minute because "reasons". But I am not here to play word games, I want to know what their problem actually was.

Kickstarter uses the words "pledge" and "contract," not donation. What I bought was a contract, same as if I hired someone to paint my house.

Actually it'd be very easy to satisfy me; just be more specific than "middleware problems." Which middleware? What problem? Give me an honest answer that shows they did actually try, and were unable to do what was promised.

I am a Mac and Linux backer, and I have been following this situation since the December update was posted. I would like a refund. I backed this project in order to receive the Mac and Linux versions. When the creators cancelled other platforms, they offered affected backers refunds. They have set a precedent; Mac and Linux backers should also be offered refunds.

Offering Mac and Linux versions, taking my money, and then announcing years later that these platforms will not be released is fraud.

As browren has shown, the creators are in violation of Kickstarter's terms of use. It is very disappointing that so many backers, especially XombieMike, are apologizing for this unacceptable, legally fraught behavior by the project creators.

I have backed many Kickstarter games as a Mac and Linux user, and I have never encountered such duplicitous behavior. Even Mighty No. 9 was released on Mac and Linux.

The creators are selling products from this Kickstarter, such as Curse of the Moon, without having delivered my rewards - another violation of Kickstarter rules.

Excuses made by other backers are not relevant. For example, it does not matter that the reward survey does not distinguish between PC, Mac, and Linux users. In fact, this is an example of a failure by the creators to present the project honestly and clearly as required by Kickstarter rules.

The creators have also failed to present the project honestly and clearly by setting up and discarding multiple shell companies, affiliates, and intermediaries - preventing backers from communicating with creators, resolving disputes, and obtaining a clear picture of the project status. For example, there are currently open questions on this forum as to whether DICO is involved with the project - an utter failure in transparency. Additionally, questions about the Mac and Linux cancellations were disingenuously directed towards Fangamer, a clothing company in Arizona.

Unless backers have been lied to, there is plenty of money to refund Mac and Linux backers. The Kickstarter exceeded the $500,000 goal by an order of magnitude, raising $5,545,991 for the sole purpose of demonstrating demand to the actual funding entities. Therefore, unless backers have been mislead, there exists more than $5M of excess funds - all of these backers could withdraw and the project would still have met its goal. Game development has always been funded by a third party.

The project creators have announced that my rewards will not be fulfilled. Under the Kickstarter terms of use, they are required to work with me in order to find a satisfactory resolution. If the project creators continue to remain silent and refuse to engage with me on this matter, I will be happy to talk with similarly affect backers regarding legal remediation.

The Kickstarter terms of use clearly state that backers who do not receive their rewards must be offered a return of funds.

it's fine browren , i understand your position. No ofense taken or anything. 

XombieMike that's exactly my point. The project WILL be finished. Not completely as intended, and that is allowed by Kickstarter itself. And, as it was also stated, Kickstart works on donations,  not on patronage. 

This is something all of you must understand. A Kickstarter project doesn't have any obligation of being finished. Refunds are also not mandatory at all. Take a look at this, on Kickstarter page:

"If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers."
"The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers."

Now, what that means? It means the creator must make efforts to find ANOTHER WAY to bring the project to a "satisfying conclusion". If the game is released on some plataforms, but not others, that can CLEARLY be considered "another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion".

Imagine if the game ended up with a minimal requirement that is way too high for most standard computers. What people with low-end PCs who backed the project would do? Sue them because their machines can't run the game? 

When Kickstarter says that the creator "may be subject to legal action", that just means the backers can try to sue the creator, because that is possible for anything, everything, for any allegation. Ayone here, at this page, can sue anyone else for any reason or for no reason at all. 
Also, refunds aren't at all an obligation of the creator. You can't find that anywhere on terms of use. Kickstarter just says it is an option, it doesn't say it is an obligation.

You are all mad and i completely understand that. 505/DICO/IGA reputation may be harmed by that, and i completely understand that. But forget about refunds or legal action. It's not gonna happen. A legal action against a kickstarter project that is following kickstarter rules and is actually finishing the project, as kickstarter itself demmands, has no weight and no value in court.

illasera

Forum rules will always be strictly enforced, but that doesn't mean you can't campaign within them.

This project is far from a scam and adheres to the Kickstarter terms of use. I wont keep repeating myself, but you all may as much as you feel you need to. Just keep it respectful.