RichterB
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]
Posts: 338
inherit
971
0
Dec 13, 2015 1:34:36 GMT -6
282
RichterB
[TI1]
338
Dec 13, 2015 0:48:59 GMT -6
December 2015
richterb
|
Post by RichterB on Nov 18, 2018 20:15:12 GMT -6
In case you don't know, former game journalist Mark Brown has done an in-depth series about game design called Boss Keys. He's currently going through the "Metroidvania" genre after going through all of Zelda, and he just completed Symphony. It's interesting to hear this in relationship to other "Metroidvanias" and it makes one wonder how Bloodstained will execute things overall.
|
|
Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
Posts: 1,068
inherit
Legendary Comrade
445
0
Oct 20, 2019 3:32:00 GMT -6
1,600
Pure Miriam
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
1,068
Jul 25, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -6
July 2015
puremiriam
|
Post by Pure Miriam on Nov 19, 2018 2:51:40 GMT -6
This is really a interesting analysis. It really makes you think how they will work around exploration on Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.
|
|
Cernex
Loyal Familiar
Still learning how things work
Posts: 188
inherit
1265
0
Dec 21, 2023 5:04:36 GMT -6
129
Cernex
Still learning how things work
188
Apr 19, 2016 11:47:07 GMT -6
April 2016
cernex
|
Post by Cernex on Nov 19, 2018 3:19:04 GMT -6
Huh... I will admit I found that mildly amusing and informative. Also...
"Because the game is SOO EASY!"
FINALLY! Someone had to say it. I KNEW I WASN'T CRAZY!
|
|
inherit
1881
0
Oct 29, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -6
449
freddythemonkey
489
May 23, 2017 4:59:35 GMT -6
May 2017
freddythemonkey
|
Post by freddythemonkey on Nov 19, 2018 12:34:24 GMT -6
Absolutely disappointing, superficial video from Mark. He used to make such interesting content, this "analysis" is more like a pseudo walkthrough, there are very few design insights (90% of the video could be told by basically every SotN player ever), as well as actual errors and things that show a complete lack of attention for the game he was "analyzing". The whole video sounded like "I wanted to make a series about Metroid but I have to cover these other games. This one I don't like, but it's considered a classic so I guess I'll say one or two things about it". Treating the inverted castle as "padding" also left me speechless. SotN is a 1997 game and he talks about it like it's a new indie game that just came out and so decides to "pad" the length with this idea. This would be a grave enough mistake in a retrospective review, but since this is trying (and I emphasize TRYING) to be a "design" video it just becomes laughable.
Not to mention how biased he is with anything that's not Nintendo nowadays. How come getting to dead ends in Super Metroid is a cool part of the exploration while doing so in SotN is a waste of time? Especially considering the items and knowledge you get along the way.
I'm absolutely baffled at the quality drop of his channel lately, even more baffled in seeing people that don't really seem to mind. If you compare this video to pretty much any video of his from one year ago or so the difference is staggering.
|
|
Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
Posts: 1,068
inherit
Legendary Comrade
445
0
Oct 20, 2019 3:32:00 GMT -6
1,600
Pure Miriam
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
1,068
Jul 25, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -6
July 2015
puremiriam
|
Post by Pure Miriam on Nov 20, 2018 2:16:04 GMT -6
freddythemonkey I disagree with some of your points. I never realized the main corridor is the "hub" for most of the starting areas until now. Maybe i'm on the 10% of SOTN players who didn't noticed that. The inverted castle is creative, and i always considered that, but IT IS a cheap way to artificially make the game longer, since it is basically the same layout upside-down with palleted swap colors and new enemies and itens thrown around. Many Igavania games after SOTN did the same thing with minor variations. I never watched his other videos to compare, so, i can't say anything about his videos quality.
|
|
inherit
1881
0
Oct 29, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -6
449
freddythemonkey
489
May 23, 2017 4:59:35 GMT -6
May 2017
freddythemonkey
|
Post by freddythemonkey on Nov 20, 2018 6:53:57 GMT -6
How was the idea cheap and artificial? Harmony of Dissonance's castle B is lazy and artifical because it's almost exactly the same. When SotN came out, it was a novel concept and a huge, mindblowing secret, most areas play out in a different way and with drastically different enemies. Also constructing a castle layout that has to work both regularly and upside down is an interesting feat to say the least, which should be explored in a design video.
I'd really suggest you to watch earlier videos of his, for example the one on Shovel Knight. Way more tight on the design aspect, with more content and insight. I bet you'd find those even more interesting.
|
|
Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
Posts: 1,068
inherit
Legendary Comrade
445
0
Oct 20, 2019 3:32:00 GMT -6
1,600
Pure Miriam
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
1,068
Jul 25, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -6
July 2015
puremiriam
|
Post by Pure Miriam on Nov 21, 2018 2:10:21 GMT -6
freddythemonkey I will see if i watch his other videos, for sure. About SOTN second castle, it is creative and it was mindblowing for me, for sure. But it is cheap and artificial. It is cheap because what they did was copy-paste the whole thing, put it upside down and change the colors. That's not a heavy work. Symphony of the Night has the upside down castle. Same castle, upside down layout with palleted swap colors, new enemies and songs. Harmony of Disosnance has two castles with the same layount, palleted swap colors and new enemies. Portrait of Ruin has four portraits with unique scenarios and four additional portraits that are just a change in layout and palleted swapped colors of the first four, with new enemies and songs. Order of Ecclesia has some locations (i don't remember how many), that are basically areas with pallete swap and differently layout versions of the others, with new enemies and songs. That is what some call "fake longevity". A cheap and artificial way to make a game longer. Other games, specially in the past, also did that. I remember Silent Hill 4, where you repeat, i believe, 6 or 7 locations two times, just playing at slightly different areas of them each time, to reach the end. Or Fatal Frame 3 where you play on a huge mansion and basically unlock more portions of it as the game goes on, that are basically copy-paste locations of the same mansion with altered layout, colors and a bit of the environment. Symphony of the Night WAS creative, and i compliment them for being able to create a whole castle that would work upside down, BUT it is cheap. That's what i think, at least.
|
|
inherit
2328
0
May 20, 2022 17:52:44 GMT -6
128
ovenkitty
279
Mar 22, 2018 16:23:21 GMT -6
March 2018
ovenkitty
|
Post by ovenkitty on Nov 21, 2018 7:18:51 GMT -6
I was actually wondering about the hub thing during my last play-through. I noticed that you can travel the length of the castle without an area name flashing up. Pretty cool.
When I first played Sotn, it wasn't too long ago, I already knew about the inverted castle. I actually didn't enjoy it much for some of the same reasons, I agree that it is sort of cheap. Also, just moving about is annoying since you constantly have to use special abilities. However, I've come to appreciate it a bit more with time. The increased difficulty is welcomed, and if you're trying to find everything in the game it does take quite a bit more grinding looking for rare item drops. It's also a great testing ground for new weapons and abilities. I also think it's really cool that there's actually a clue in the normal castle hinting at the reverse one.
|
|
Cernex
Loyal Familiar
Still learning how things work
Posts: 188
inherit
1265
0
Dec 21, 2023 5:04:36 GMT -6
129
Cernex
Still learning how things work
188
Apr 19, 2016 11:47:07 GMT -6
April 2016
cernex
|
Post by Cernex on Nov 26, 2018 4:59:54 GMT -6
I personally think that -I mean, even going by the exchange in this thread alone- that most of us would agree that while, sure, the inverted castle might or might not be padding, it was definitely not as fun as exploring the normal castle.
And that's not a good thing regardless.
(I personally didn't mind it, because more game, but I did remember I didn't play it with as much... let's call it "fervor" when I reached it.)
|
|
Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
195
0
Aug 19, 2023 8:35:43 GMT -6
2,620
Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
3,402
Jun 24, 2015 13:36:33 GMT -6
June 2015
galamoth
|
Post by Galamoth on Nov 26, 2018 13:33:48 GMT -6
There is one particular area of SotN's Inverted Castle that I enjoy exploring. I think you all know the one.
|
|
inherit
2328
0
May 20, 2022 17:52:44 GMT -6
128
ovenkitty
279
Mar 22, 2018 16:23:21 GMT -6
March 2018
ovenkitty
|
Post by ovenkitty on Nov 30, 2018 8:30:07 GMT -6
I finally actually finished watching the video, and I think he was pretty fair in his review... even though I guess it wasn't supposed to be a review. His analysis is actually quite similar to the SSFF "Re-certified Classic" Sotn video.
|
|