purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 3, 2018 9:02:00 GMT -6
(click to receive your meal ticket) Call me Johannes if you want, but one thing I really enjoyed about earlier 'vania games was seeing the MC pick up and "eat" the food. Doing it in-menu, while faster and safer, is much less visually satisfying. The same goes for potions automatically healing in the menus instantly, instead of the startup they have in Symphony. The food and potions having a prep time of either approaching them or waiting for the bonus/heal to take effect added a layer of planning and spacing to fights while also making more sense to me visually and thematically. I had assumed the portable games did it in the much simpler, fast way because of the need to condense or remove systems and animations, which gave a much less satisfying consumption of items. Since food (and cooking) is coming back in a big way here, I'd love it if somehow the return of on-screen food consumption returns. Even if that means a big ol' flat 2D object pops up on the screen. lol On a related note, I think that the damage/heal text needs a more stylish font to it. The way it wraps and flies for HP/MP max ups needs some work, too imo. That is all Are you eating properly? edit: A clarification from below Oh, the in-hand use of items isn't something I want back, no. That's just awkward to need to equip something in a weapon slot to use it. All I mean by this is I don't want everything only happening with numbers in the menu. That takes the personality out of it. There are currently unused shoulder buttons (and B/Circle doesn't do anything yet either), so that + right stick could navigate an in-game item use menu for instance. Something like a better Lament system. An added bonus is that this saves us from pause menu trips every time we're poisoned (or when whatever other status effect hits us)
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Post by crono141 on Jul 3, 2018 9:45:48 GMT -6
I personally disagree. The wonkiest thing about SotN was having to equip food in a hand, throw it on the ground, and then pick it up to get the bonus. It reeked of an item system bolted on instead of baked in from the beginning.
That said, I wouldn't mind an animation or sound effect of some kind once you come back from the menu to make it more apparent that something has happened.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 3, 2018 10:09:32 GMT -6
Oh, the in-hand use of items isn't something I want back, no. That's just awkward to need to equip something in a weapon slot to use it. All I mean by this is I don't want everything only happening with numbers in the menu. That takes the personality out of it.
There are currently unused shoulder buttons (and B/Circle doesn't do anything yet either), so that + right stick could navigate an in-game item use menu for instance. Something like a better Lament system. An added bonus is that this saves us from pause menu trips every time we're poisoned (or when whatever other status effect hits us)
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Post by allooutrick on Jul 3, 2018 11:11:43 GMT -6
I like the idea. The thread title sounds kinda like what a stalker would say though and I find it hilarious. "I want to see her put the meat in her mouth and swallow that drink" lol
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 3, 2018 12:04:52 GMT -6
whoops that wasn't intended but amusing
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Post by kamuiarikado on Jul 3, 2018 18:15:42 GMT -6
I want to see a more elaborate Miriam cooking animation. Like Miriam flipping food in a pan, putting ingredients in a pot, cutting vegetables...The Miriam finished cooking animation is cute though.
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Post by crocodile on Jul 3, 2018 23:38:29 GMT -6
I'm going to respectfully disagree. There was nothing strategic about it in SOTN, it was just annoying. If you need to add more depth, challenge or complexity to the boss fights or other such encounters, just improve the enemy AI or attack patterns. Making healing items more clumsy to use doesn't feel like the best/appropriate way to go about it for a game like this. It never struck me as a concession for handhelds when it was changed, just a streamlining of gameplay and bringing it more in line with how most other RPGs handle healing.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 4, 2018 0:41:29 GMT -6
crocodile So the strategy/difficulty side of this is mostly ancillary to my main point (fun and gamey-ness to me), since I don't necessarily think that these games are about being challenging, but if we're going in this direction then that's cool because I still think what I said holds (and yeah, for me personally it would certainly enhance it). It's convenient that you brought up RPGs there, because I don't think that instant healing is standard at all for RPGs actually. I can't think of a scene that goes like this - During encounter with enemy, monster is animating an attack that would kill your character/the party, so you pause the game and heal appropriately, unpause to take the hit and keep playing. There has to be at the very least turn order to consider after issuing commands, if not most often casting time and animations. If the enemy is already in the process of doing a move, it's definitely too late in any game I can think of. Now, of course healing is instant in-menu when you're not in any danger in field screens, overworlds and whatnot, but that's fine since it's a time saver since you're not in battle. In battle, that would subvert the idea of the game's system/mechanics and the strategy it wants you to use to think ahead on how you can restore your characters. One semi-exception I can think of is the limited "cheat" mechanic that Bravely Default has called Bravely Second, which stops time and lets you get an immediate free action. It's pretty strong and a big deal as a mechanic because afaik it hadn't been done before What portable Igavania essentially lets you do, if we're thinking about it in RPG terms, is let you Bravely Second at any time you might die to heal yourself. I don't think it can be diminished that it's more strategic comparatively to have to think ahead of time, or distance yourself from the enemy, to heal...because it is.
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Post by tekrelm on Jul 4, 2018 0:43:46 GMT -6
It would certainly bring back a layer of tactical consideration that currently isn't there! I wouldn't be opposed to it. Certainly, it has felt a little exploitative to hide in the menu to eat a lot of food items at my leisure before returning to battle.
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Post by Fuchigane on Jul 4, 2018 13:26:53 GMT -6
Wished it could work like MGS3 Snake Eater, she would rate the food when eating. Would be 10/10. What a thrill.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 5, 2018 10:50:08 GMT -6
Wished it could work like MGS3 Snake Eater, she would rate the food when eating. Would be 10/10. What a thrill. Everything is OISHIIIII I kinda like that idea, but I'd be offended if she didn't like something I do lol. I think it worked so well for MGS3 because all the stuff Snake was eating was...supposed to be bad/exotic, so hearing his candid opinions on it when he randomly said it was great was amusing. Wild...uncooked random alligator meat? DELICIOUS Maybe varied clips at least would be good though.
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 5, 2018 10:55:06 GMT -6
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Post by dareka on Jul 5, 2018 12:04:12 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard You probably know of George Kamitani, right? The founder of Vanillaware (Dragon's Crown, Odinsphere). Besides being the creators of some of the best 2D artwork in games, one of the things Kamitani does is force you to do things in a more direct way, even when using a menu would be simpler, because it's more memorable. So, in Odinsphere, you need to control a little girl, having her go over to a book and open it to load a file. It could be done with just a menu button, but they make you do it that way. Same for the cooking in Dragon's Crown. I just mention it because I was reminded of it by what you say in this thread. Personally, I think it'd be great if Miriam did actually eat her items... and for instance, if she looked tired or hurt if you open the menu when your HP's low (when the screen starts blinking red), and then got her "genki" back by eating. It probably won't happen, though, for the same reason that, to this day, FFXIV has characters just make a motion with their hands when exchanging items: it would require creating a distinct animation for each item you eat. It's a shame, but I doubt they have time or budget for that.
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Post by yoshi9048 on Jul 6, 2018 3:09:03 GMT -6
I wrote earlier my views on potions.
In my opinion, potions should be a fast regen, instead of an instant heal.
Like, if you use a potion in menu, it will actually show a light-color that doesn't fill (if you are at 32 / 300 hp before, you're still at 32 / 300 hp after using a potion), but when back in combat, will quickly fill over 3 seconds.
Let's say you are at 23/150 HP. Using a potion will fill 50 HP of your bar visually, but won't heal you until you pop out of menu. This allows you to stack 2 potions on top of eachother to heal 100 HP over 6 seconds.
Doing this means you can remove arbitrary item limits (9 of a potion, 5 of a high) as the crux is taken off of use exploitation and put more on planning.
This also enables them to add rare rejuvenation potions that have a very high cost but heal instantly.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 6, 2018 7:45:39 GMT -6
yoshi9048 that's a pretty decent compromise I hadn't thought of. Reminds me of Diablo 2 potions. Mechanically it suits some of what I want, but not as much the personality/charm and visual of things (related to food/item consumption). Either way, it makes sense. Possibly a consideration for other modes at least.
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Post by Torabi on Jul 7, 2018 19:35:24 GMT -6
There already appears to be a delay between exiting the menu and actually receiving the healing effects of potions. Someone in another thread mentioned dying in that interval.
I would like it if the food was a bit more involved. The cooking animation is way too fast and abrupt; I don't know what she's doing at the end there, sticking her arms out. It's hard to tell what purpose food is supposed to serve, other than the permanent first-time bonus. It currently seems like you can't eat the same dish again, though it also seems like you should be able to. Otherwise, why have it as an item that you need to use, rather than it just being immediately consumed for the permanent bonus after cooking? Perhaps food should not be useful in combat, but have an animation, so you could use it to recover between fights, when you're far from a teleporter or save point, and have the potions serve for quick in-combat recovery.
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Post by Key on Jul 9, 2018 21:53:20 GMT -6
I agree that bringing back the idea of throwing food on the ground wouldn't work. Anyone remember throwing dozens of sushi from octopi into a pit to another room, knowing you wasted it?
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