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Post by giwagiwa on Jun 30, 2018 10:13:57 GMT -6
Like I said, what they did is obvious by looking at the screenshots: a downgrade in geometry (fewer polygons for the backgrounds and the characters), downgrade in texture resolution and detail, and a downgrade in lighting/post-processing. Optimizing geometry is pretty par for the course in 3d game development. No matter how high spec a system you run the game on, you don't want unnecessary geometry that wouldn't be visible to the player. This could also mean swapping out more detailed models when we see characters up close vs during normal gameplay.
The only reason to downgrade textures would be to make the game work on lower powered platforms. Texture resolution should stay high, or have the option for different resolutions.
Lighting is more of an artistic choice than performance-heavy in most cases nowadays. Unless you're trying to do something crazy like dynamic shadows for every light source, etc. I see no reason the game can't look like the 2016 screenshot while retaining its current graphical performance.
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Post by dareka on Jun 30, 2018 10:14:45 GMT -6
dareka I don't know why people say concept art. Looks in-engine graphics to me. A lot of it looks like stuff that is STILL in the 2018 shot. Nowhere did it EVER say it's concept ART. It's in-engine graphics. It may be, but nobody saw it move. We don't even know if the original graphics engine was even complete at that point. |
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Post by dareka on Jun 30, 2018 10:19:07 GMT -6
Like I said, what they did is obvious by looking at the screenshots: a downgrade in geometry (fewer polygons for the backgrounds and the characters), downgrade in texture resolution and detail, and a downgrade in lighting/post-processing. Optimizing geometry is pretty par for the course in 3d game development. No matter how high spec a system you run the game on, you don't want unnecessary geometry that wouldn't be visible to the player. This could also mean swapping out more detailed models when we see characters up close vs during normal gameplay.
The only reason to downgrade textures would be to make the game work on lower powered platforms. Texture resolution should stay high, or have the option for different resolutions.
Lighting is more of an artistic choice than performance-heavy in most cases nowadays. Unless you're trying to do something crazy like dynamic shadows for every light source, etc. I see no reason the game can't look like the 2016 screenshot while retaining its current graphical performance. Sorry, but I disagree with just about everything you're saying. Let's leave it at that, though. |
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Post by Astaroth on Jun 30, 2018 10:19:48 GMT -6
CastleDan maybe thisll give you hope that some of those colorful lighting effects are in but just turned off, theyre present in the latest trailer, theres also some areas that have more shadow depth and look really nice
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Post by dareka on Jun 30, 2018 10:26:51 GMT -6
CastleDan maybe thisll give you hope that some of those colorful lighting effects are in but just turned off, theyre present in the latest trailer, theres also some areas that have more shadow depth and look really nice You're right on that... I wanna be hopeful... maybe they just gave us the cheap versions of the assets for the demo in hopes that it would run on as many PCs as possible... maybe they haven't optimized the code and are unable to implement graphics settings at this point...maybe they turned off procedural generation for the same reason... I wanna believe... |
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Post by savingprincess on Jun 30, 2018 10:29:57 GMT -6
CastleDanAlso, SotN used a lot of "0,0,0" black in it's design... where as RotN seems to be almost afraid of it in certain areas where it would help... Here's another adjust with some more detailed lighting adjustments and more use of 0,0,0 black. 
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Post by Astaroth on Jun 30, 2018 10:32:11 GMT -6
not really cheap, just this is a beta demo, not everything is in, not everything is enabled, i would actually encourage everybody to post their pc specs in a thread and what kind of framerate theyre getting so they can get a snapshot of where they need to be in terms of graphics options
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 30, 2018 12:23:45 GMT -6
Wow thanks for pointing that out Astaroth, you're right. It's foggy and more colorful back there in the trailer gameplay.
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Post by estebant on Jun 30, 2018 12:23:47 GMT -6
Jan 2016  June 2017  June 2018  June 2018 Story Trailer  It doesn't look good... it looks awful. But the shadows are darker at least. The gold trimmed stairs are gone again... |
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Post by seiya on Jun 30, 2018 12:26:42 GMT -6
There is one shot in that trailer that has me a little worried, but there is one thing I noticed in my last attempted in a quick playthrough (which I am horrible at doing). I noticed that every area, BUT the Entrance has lighting looking nice. Go to the Garden area and look in the background. It looks so much nicer than the Entrance. Lighting in the village is also in a good place. This strongly implies that something isnt set properly in the Entrance area right now and will be fixed in a new version.
This is pretty common in betas.
This goes hand in hand with why I am not too worried over occasional slow downs right now. Something else that is commonly done in betas is to lower quality to get better performance due to having debugging software running in the background. They cause huge slowdowns.
Unfortunately, without the devs telling us what is going on, we cannot be certain. If I was going to place a bet though, I would say the minimum light level in the Entrance area is set too high. You CAN see color and shadows in the background, but they are extremely washed out. You have to look very closely to see them.
With a thread this large and this strong of agreement on the look, there will be a change soon most likely.
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Post by savingprincess on Jun 30, 2018 12:52:58 GMT -6
I did some messing around with ReShade and while clearly the Jan 2016 shots look the best, I think this can be salvage with some visual post-processing, here are some examples: Original:  With ReShade:  ----- Original:  With ReShade:  ----- Original:  With ReShade:  ----- Original:  With ReShade:  ----- So there you have it... just some examples of how things could look even in their current state with some tweaking. |
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Post by giwagiwa on Jun 30, 2018 13:04:17 GMT -6
Optimizing geometry is pretty par for the course in 3d game development. No matter how high spec a system you run the game on, you don't want unnecessary geometry that wouldn't be visible to the player. This could also mean swapping out more detailed models when we see characters up close vs during normal gameplay.
The only reason to downgrade textures would be to make the game work on lower powered platforms. Texture resolution should stay high, or have the option for different resolutions.
Lighting is more of an artistic choice than performance-heavy in most cases nowadays. Unless you're trying to do something crazy like dynamic shadows for every light source, etc. I see no reason the game can't look like the 2016 screenshot while retaining its current graphical performance. Sorry, but I disagree with just about everything you're saying. Let's leave it at that, though. I work with 3D rendering daily, not sure how you can disagree on a technical conversation. |
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Post by giwagiwa on Jun 30, 2018 13:11:52 GMT -6
I did some messing around with ReShade and while clearly the Jan 2016 shots look the best, I think this can be salvage with some visual post-processing, here are some examples: Original: With ReShade: ----- Original: With ReShade: ----- Original: With ReShade: ----- Original: With ReShade: ----- So there you have it... just some examples of how things could look even in their current state with some tweaking.
Very overly saturated, there needs to be a contrast between saturated and desaturated parts of the image. But this is a good example to people who don't understand how shaders work of how drastic a change they can make.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 13:19:06 GMT -6
Gosh. I have faith that the final game will look prettier, but a small part of me regrets signing up for the Switch version after seeing ReShade in action.
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Post by dareka on Jun 30, 2018 13:21:50 GMT -6
Sorry, but I disagree with just about everything you're saying. Let's leave it at that, though. I work with 3D rendering daily, not sure how you can disagree on a technical conversation. Well, I worked on game development daily, so that's how I can disagree. Look, we're obviously not gonna get anywhere here, so let's agree to disagree. |
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 30, 2018 13:28:07 GMT -6
To be honest. even 2017 > Story Trailer is a huge downgrade, and I do think the story trailer is operating off of outdated footage (no gold trim on the stairs, moco weed thing in the village) Development Update 9  Story Trailer  Lighting is pretty good in the story trailer but it's still gray gray gray gray gray. The red carpet has dulled and is barely recognizable, the pillars have been greyed out, the windows in the back are hardly visible, losing a lot of the scope and color for the place. Also back to a previous tangent, freddythemonkey I found the quote from Angel. Apparently I saved it somewhere.  |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 30, 2018 13:30:44 GMT -6
A problem with being too saturated is, while it looks pretty good, it'll be that much harder for your eyes to take in and follow what you're supposed to be doing/looking at. That's one unfortunate downfall of having everything jump out at you and "not be dull". It's definitely a balance. Dev Update 9 Zangetsu above in Dumpling's post looks great. not really cheap, just this is a beta demo, not everything is in, not everything is enabled, i would actually encourage everybody to post their pc specs in a thread and what kind of framerate theyre getting so they can get a snapshot of where they need to be in terms of graphics options This is a great point. They may need a good point of reference as to what to aim for/how people will be experiencing things etc. I was actually a bit surprised that my PC being under minimum specs AND using capture software ran the game so well. That being an i5 3470 at 3.7 ghz with a Radeon 7870. edit: about that Angel quote Dumpling just posted, he knows/realizes Indivisible isn't "fully 2D" |
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 30, 2018 13:33:11 GMT -6
This is a great point. They may need a good point of reference as to what to aim for/how people will be experiencing things etc. I was actually a bit surprised that my PC being under minimum specs AND using capture software ran the game so well. That being an i5 3470 at 3.7 ghz with a Radeon 7870. I was able to stream the game on OBS with a GTX 770 and an i7 860 2.8 ghz, a processor from 2009 that's outperformed by modern i3s. It's a pretty low spec game for sure. |
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Post by Yu Karasu on Jun 30, 2018 13:33:28 GMT -6
The ReShade is too strong, but already works in the contrast issue. Knowing its just an example clearly shows we could see a lot of improvement in the textures and contrast, with some tweaks here and there.
I really, really hope the current graphics aren't going to be in the final version, because currently I am fairly worried.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 30, 2018 13:37:57 GMT -6
not really cheap, just this is a beta demo, not everything is in, not everything is enabled, i would actually encourage everybody to post their pc specs in a thread and what kind of framerate theyre getting so they can get a snapshot of where they need to be in terms of graphics options Ryzen 7 1700 at 3.8 Ghz, 16GB of RAM at 3000 MHz, AMD RX 480 at 1306 MHz, I can play flawlessly at 4K 60fps and even more because I use framerate cap and the GPU usage wasn't hitting 100% in any moment. This GPU isn't high-end, the beta probably is not optimized, yet the game is playable at 4k60fps. I don't think they have any reason to downgrade anything in the game. |
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