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Post by exile on Aug 2, 2018 13:27:17 GMT -6
Honestly, as long as they restore some of the procedural generation, I'm fine with it. Despite that we'd all love the graphics to be as good as possible, I maintain they still look pretty great for what this game is. I'm ecstatic to know they'll look even better on release. Now if we could just get Miriam's default hair to move, I'd die happy.
Wait, no, first I'd wait until the game is released, then I'd play it, THEN I'd die happy. Yeah, pretty sure that's the right order of things.
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Post by estebant on Aug 20, 2018 11:37:36 GMT -6
This delay is the best thing that could possibly happen to us right now. The latest demo just doesn't live up to the quality we've come to expect from Igas previous games. A release in it's current state would be a death sentence.
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Post by Nezuto on Aug 20, 2018 12:47:12 GMT -6
Yet people have gotten impatient and are demanding a specific release date.....I say that'd be a very very bad choice. I say that because, if they did and had to delay for ANY reason no matter how small/big, people would lose their minds and it'd be yet another fiasco. They will let us know when they are confident the game is in proper order.
That being said, I agree that this delay is a good thing and can't wait to see what happens, going forward.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 21, 2018 11:19:48 GMT -6
Yet people have gotten impatient and are demanding a specific release date. Some people are like that. Dunno why. Its a mad world. And a date isnt important.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 11:33:29 GMT -6
I don't think that it is "impatient" to ask for a release date. How many more years must we show patience before we are allowed to inquire about it? This project rarely shows any real progress updates, so many of us who supported it are mostly in the dark about it. And we want to play it. I understand that on this forum (and perhaps elsewhere on the internet), the prevailing attitude seems to be "take as long as you need." But I hope that people will not make caricatures of those of us who are confused or concerned by the moving target. Yes, I want the graphics to look better. We're told that they will. But it doesn't make someone like me impatient when I wonder where we stand and what we can expect.
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Post by Nezuto on Aug 21, 2018 11:46:52 GMT -6
I've already stated, only imo as I don't speak for anyone else here, that it's impatience to be constantly asking for a specific date because of the fact that, as soon as they give one and would have to delay for any reasons big or small, people would immediately be on the teams asses faster than a fly to droppings. I stand by what I said, because I've personally experienced this kinda crap happening in the industry and really would rather not see such a thing happen to RotN, but apparently it seems being cautious on any kind of true release date is just something companies aren't allowed to do anymore. Never said it's not ok to be upset with matters, hell, I'm royally peeved that they've not been communicating one bit since everything went nuts from the beta demo, but not going to sit here and be forced to defend the teams sound reasoning on not giving a specific date. In case it's been forgotten, they did that on the KS page and people are still complaining that this didn't release in the original 2yr 'specific dating', so my point stands. I have labelled MOST, not ALL, of us and include myself into that factor. Plus, you want language, I've plenty more that would get me banned off the forums and I've not seen anything being done over others saying fucking this or fucking that or outright flaming things. I am merely trying to help others see that being patient can assist in matters. Most recent example of such things was over the graphics, as this whole friggn thread shows. Many of us, myself included, jumped to conclusions and how well did that work out?
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 21, 2018 11:48:47 GMT -6
"Release is tomorrow and so is the shipment to all out backers" < I would like to see this when its time.
That will do just fine.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 21, 2018 11:58:06 GMT -6
Let's try to keep this thread focused on things pertaining to the graphics feedback for the beta. I believe there are a couple of other threads ongoing about the release date/delay discussion.
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Post by adan on Aug 23, 2018 2:19:26 GMT -6
Hi, after a long time finally played the e32018 demo, and I am feeling a mix of worry and sadness. I have seen a lot of not so great technical things, more common in prealpha and alpha states than in a near finished product. I am a technical artist at a video game studio, and have been working on UE4 for 3 years now. In this post I'll try to address some of the graphic problems I noticed.
Personally, I think the graphics are not polished at all. I assume Its because the need of launching in such different platforms plus the lack of experience of the team with 3d assets and the engine, but whatever it was, it affected very negatively on the final quality. I think the 3d approach over the traditional 2d castlevania is now a more evident detriment than when the project started.
The game 3d models are very low poly, textures are excessive flat, colorful and non cohesive. The animations are robotic and not fluid at all. Even the scenery layout seems rushed( you can clearly see the camera flat color background in some areas near the castle that are supposed to be underground, or the fact that even the foreground trees are simple planes, with even the trunk waving like leaves). In fact, the most of the trees weren't even aligned with the ground and seemed floating. This are only a couple of examples of why the environment doesn't seem cohesive, and in many cases dificultes a lot the player immersion.
The lightning also plays a big roll, the game relies only on a very flat directional light for the most of the rooms and a heavy exponential fog to hide the backgrounds. It creates the feeling that the entire map is a unique room, with some spaces having different colors than others instead reflecting different moods on each room and stage.
The locked 720p menu images of the characters gives a poor impression, and its more noticeable on 1080p and up. The modern cheap graphic techniques of post process in which UE4 heavily depends for image quality are somehow lacking (as basic things as SSAO or tone mapper).
Even with the recent delay, I don't know if the team will be able to fix all the important problems that the game have today(not only the graphic ones). And the silence from the team about the current state and the planning to address the problems, is at least, very uncomfortable.
PD: The main menu theme is an awesome orchestrated piece, and its a heavy contrast with the rest of the game sound, breaking even more the mood.
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Post by akahige on Aug 23, 2018 17:20:38 GMT -6
At this point, I think not even a launch date of 31st Dec. 2019 would buy the team enough time to compensate an artistic sensibility that just isn't there.
We'll have to make out the most of what we're being given, really.
There's still quite a good chunk of goodness in there...
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Post by adan on Aug 23, 2018 23:55:13 GMT -6
Is there any posibility to allow the comunity to mod the game ? With an open engine is not hard to do, such as many other UE4 indie games did, Im sure many backers will thank such feature.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Aug 24, 2018 0:57:34 GMT -6
Opening the games to modding to fix what's broken won't do us any favors considering the likely larger player base on consoles and if the game isn't good in the first place, it's going to be hard to inspire modders to do the work.
I'm really concerned about Bloodstained as a franchise, cause it sounds like it might be unsustainable.
I hate to say this but if the game looks dull and sounds dull then it won't matter how to me how good the gameplay is because that's just not what I come to these for. The environment and music and wealth of content full of visual and auditory splendor is what drew me to SotN. It's a beautiful game that I love to explore. It doesn't really matter to me that I dodge boss attacks and get in my hits when they're open. That's kinda fun but there's a billion games I can do that in that I haven't played and it's not really where I get my engagement in gaming. I'm drawn in by the world first and foremost, and if the world is dull and boring then I'll probably put the game down and never pick it back up again.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Aug 24, 2018 1:05:22 GMT -6
Opening the games to modding to fix what's broken won't do us any favors considering the likely larger player base on consoles and if the game isn't good in the first place, it's going to be hard to inspire modders to do the work. I'm really concerned about Bloodstained as a franchise, cause it sounds like it might be unsustainable. I hate to say this but if the game looks dull and sounds dull then it won't matter how to me how good the gameplay is because that's just not what I come to these for. The environment and music and wealth of content full of visual and auditory splendor is what drew me to SotN. It's a beautiful game that I love to explore. It doesn't really matter to me that I dodge boss attacks and get in my hits when they're open. That's kinda fun but there's a billion games I can do that in that I haven't played and it's not really where I get my engagement in gaming. I'm drawn in by the world first and foremost, and if the world is dull and boring then I'll probably put the game down and never pick it back up again. Well, I think they've heard your concerns--in the latest update IGA explicitly said that one reason they're delaying the game to 2019 is to improve the graphics and aesthetics!
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Post by lovelydumpling on Aug 24, 2018 1:16:02 GMT -6
Well, I think they've heard your concerns--in the latest update IGA explicitly said that one reason they're delaying the game to 2019 is to improve the graphics and aesthetics! And I am... trying to be cautiously optimistic, but with the issues adan describe and the bizarre methods dareka mentioned behind how their graphics appear to be done that remind me a lot of the bizarre twists of logic an inexperienced programmer might use to preform tasks in a counter-productively elaborate manner, and I... don't know. It feels like they've tied themselves into a knot that would be more expensive and time consuming to try to unravel than just to start over and neither path is a desirable situation this late in, especially on a limited budget. Even if we gave them all the time in the world, I'm not sure how much can be done about it all, and people more experienced in the realm of Unreal 4 and video game graphics design than myself being as concerned as they are certainly doesn't help to rest my nerves.
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Post by gunlord500 on Aug 24, 2018 3:04:07 GMT -6
I certainly do know how you feel. If it seems to be a team quality problem--and it might be--hopefully 505 has some resources or personnel on hand who might be able to give the team guidance. 505 is good at what they do, and I don't think they would have signed on to publish Bloodstained if they didn't believe it could reach a satisfactory level of quality at some point and with a measured but not limitless amount of help.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 24, 2018 4:29:37 GMT -6
Let me give a controversial opinion:
I think IGA shouldn't listen to fans and backers so much. Sometimes people cry out for the silliest of reasons. Trying to please everyone and mitigate almost all negativity brought the game to a new delay.
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Post by akahige on Aug 24, 2018 8:52:12 GMT -6
I'm really concerned about Bloodstained as a franchise, cause it sounds like it might be unsustainable. I hate to say this but if the game looks dull and sounds dull then it won't matter how to me how good the gameplay is because that's just not what I come to these for. The environment and music and wealth of content full of visual and auditory splendor is what drew me to SotN. It's a beautiful game that I love to explore. It doesn't really matter to me that I dodge boss attacks and get in my hits when they're open. That's kinda fun but there's a billion games I can do that in that I haven't played and it's not really where I get my engagement in gaming. I'm drawn in by the world first and foremost, and if the world is dull and boring then I'll probably put the game down and never pick it back up again. You have done well in pointing out audio three times: "looks and sounds dull", "environment and music", "auditory splendor". You certainly have realized the tremendous importance of sound in these games. Well, I have two words which will shine your day: Michiru Yamane. Don't you see? 50% or more of the feeling was secured in this project by the very beginning. Backing It was so easy, as easy as repeating a two words mantra. It's very very hard to fail a marathon when you can begin halfway. Or, put It like this if you want: the graphics team should double or triple their efforts in negative, before even putting a dent into Yamane's magic.
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Post by estebant on Aug 24, 2018 13:48:24 GMT -6
Let me give a controversial opinion: I think IGA shouldn't listen to fans and backers so much. Sometimes people cry out for the silliest of reasons. Trying to please everyone and mitigate almost all negativity brought the game to a new delay. Unlike you most people don't want the game to turn out awful I guess.
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Post by gunlord500 on Aug 24, 2018 18:12:19 GMT -6
Let me give a controversial opinion: I think IGA shouldn't listen to fans and backers so much. Sometimes people cry out for the silliest of reasons. Trying to please everyone and mitigate almost all negativity brought the game to a new delay. Unlike you most people don't want the game to turn out awful I guess. Don't be snippy, Estebant. Anyways, while I agree that it's possible to listen to too much fan feedback, Pure Miriam, in this case it's probably wise for IGA. Given the comparison screenshots that were shown elsewhere, the difference in graphical quality was noticeable, and a delay to address it was most likely advisable.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Aug 24, 2018 22:34:07 GMT -6
I'm really concerned about Bloodstained as a franchise, cause it sounds like it might be unsustainable. I hate to say this but if the game looks dull and sounds dull then it won't matter how to me how good the gameplay is because that's just not what I come to these for. The environment and music and wealth of content full of visual and auditory splendor is what drew me to SotN. It's a beautiful game that I love to explore. It doesn't really matter to me that I dodge boss attacks and get in my hits when they're open. That's kinda fun but there's a billion games I can do that in that I haven't played and it's not really where I get my engagement in gaming. I'm drawn in by the world first and foremost, and if the world is dull and boring then I'll probably put the game down and never pick it back up again. You have done well in pointing out audio three times: "looks and sounds dull", "environment and music", "auditory splendor". You certainly have realized the tremendous importance of sound in these games. Well, I have two words which will shine your day: Michiru Yamane. Don't you see? 50% or more of the feeling was secured in this project by the very beginning. Backing It was so easy, as easy as repeating a two words mantra. It's very very hard to fail a marathon when you can begin halfway. Or, put It like this if you want: the graphics team should double or triple their efforts in negative, before even putting a dent into Yamane's magic. Unfortunately while I love her work in SotN, the GBA/DS Castlevania games for me only had a couple of notable tracks and were otherwise pretty forgettable. And so far the only track in Bloodstained to hit it for me is the main theme. The Galleon Minerva theme is catchy, but it doesn't hit the same chord with me the way Dracula's Castle, Lost Paintings, Wandering Ghosts, or Tragic Prince do.
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