JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Mar 26, 2018 16:27:16 GMT -6
I have been talking with Pure Miriam and we were talking about how many shards will be in the game... and how many of them will turn out to be "useless shards" I mean this castle will be the biggest castle ever and will be full of enemies... so how many shards will have no real use?... then I thought what if there some of these "useless shards" were turned into "trick shards" or "Joke shards" like maybe if you get a shard from a "singing ghost" or a demon that has a musical background or something ... then Miriam can get a shard that can make her sing... a spotlight can appear and a mic too... then she can sing and maybe put enemies in a trance... we can just use it to just make Miriam sing a song. or what if there is a shard that changes all of Miriam's move set into ballet moves (or any kind dancing moves) it would not be "useful" but it would be fun to play with. anyone else have ideas for "useless" shards?
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Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 27, 2018 1:22:06 GMT -6
To be fair, i prefer those joke things to be secrets, cheat codes or extras, rather than using current magical powers from the game for that.
I would love to se joke stuff, but the game shouldn't waste "magic slots" to do that. I think "useless shards" is something that will happen regardless of what it can be done, we just need to accept that fact.
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Post by freddythemonkey on Mar 27, 2018 4:01:01 GMT -6
I wouldn't want useless shards. I would be fine with shards having a niche secret use (like the Galamoth soul in Aria of Sorrow which was used just in a specific place, or the Killer Mantle soul which was basically only there to kill the Iron Golem), but please keep the useless stuff to a minimum. We'll have a great quantity of powers, but if quality isn't king then it's kinda pointless.
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Clear
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Post by Clear on Mar 27, 2018 4:11:58 GMT -6
I'm not exactly sure if the thought of Miriam turning into the Bloodstained equivalent of Axe Armor will be considered a joke, but I think it will make for a cool shard power to have around and a respectable throwback to Iga's games for the fans.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Mar 27, 2018 5:09:44 GMT -6
Pure Miriam I know "useless shards" will happen that is a given, I am not suggesting to have absolutely no "useless shards" I don't think that is possible... What I'm suggesting is having much more fun shards that you can use out of context even if there are no enemies it would still do something cool. again the singing shard I used as a suggestion still has its uses but is still awesome to use even when there are no enemies around... same with the dancing shard it just changes her move sets to dancing... not completely useless but even if there are no enemies around it will still be fun to play with. those are the type of shards I want... they are not just for "jokes" but I would love to try out a shard and find out its power is more than just shooting something out, or raising up my stats. even the "joke shards" I want, would be useful in certain situations like the killer fish soul in AoS out of the water you just summon a useless fish (that quickly dies) but in the water it is a living torpedo... again I am just try to steer away from "useless shards" if you have a shard that only works in one place at least make it enjoyable/funny to use in other places... again it does not HAVE to be "funny"... but at least make it interesting when not used in the "proper" palace... I hated the sliver fish soul in AoS because the only place you can use it is in that one place... imagine if you used it in other places you can see fairies that fly off or something... the bottom line is... all I want are interesting shards. BTW Clear I would love something like that maybe the armor may not look exactly a like the original but maybe they keep the stiff move set like the classic Axe Armor
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Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 27, 2018 6:46:04 GMT -6
Ooh, i get what you mean now. Yeah, that can definitely happen, if they have some use, that is. You know, that actually made me think about some powers from some Igavania games, not only those games where Shard system takes most inspiration (Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow) but also some others, and that made me remember some powers that, maybe, are more in par with what you are suggesting. Let me see if i'm getting it right, by talking about some of them, just few examples:
Harmony of Dissonance: Hammer Fairy (Summon Book + Bible) By combining Summon Book with Bible Sub-weapon, Juste summons a Fairy (she is similar to Symphony of the Night Fairy, but you can see they aren't the same character). That fairy seeks an enemy and BASHES it with a comical Hammer Toy. It is actually quite strong, but slow. And amuzing to use. Aria of Sorrow: Killer Doll (Bullet Soul) Summons a cute Super-Deformed doll of Soma that lures enemies to attack it (doesn't work on bosses). It is really not that useful, but quite funny to use. Dawn of Sorrow Persephone (Guardian Soul) Summons Persephone (A maid-demon) that uses a demonic vacumm cleaner made of bones to attack enemies. If you try to use it against Student Witch or another Persephone, they stop attacking and hold their skirts / dresses so they don't flip up. So, are you talking about things like this?
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Mar 27, 2018 15:24:19 GMT -6
yes that is what I mean Pure Miriam ... see fun to use just for the heck of it lol. I love getting a new soul/shard and get a strange new power... not just an obvious power... those powers are cool but I want powers that you might have to play around with to figure out how to use it (the text could give it away) but still like the Persephone soul it was fun to use and it was very useful... but again I don't only want funny looking shards... I also want ones that can change the gameplay up... maybe transforms you onto a wolf or cat and it changes your move-set... I think that is a good use for a shard anyway I hope the devs are creative about the shards... I know they will be... but I don't think it would hurt to come up with some suggestions
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Post by Enkeria on Mar 28, 2018 4:17:56 GMT -6
Straight to point: I do not want useless shards. If they can't think of something good or great, let the enemy go shardless.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 28, 2018 5:13:58 GMT -6
Enkeria I can get what you mean. And i can surely think of many useless powers some Igavania games had in the past, where they either was useless or had very limited use. It was mentioned above, but i really think , on Aria of Sorrow, that Galamoth Soul is really useless. It has a single function, in a single area. It "recognize places in which time has been stopped." Basically, it lets you go through a corridor where a rabbit (called Chronomage) stops and rewinds time, making you go backwards every single time you try to enter. If you go there with it's soul ON, you are immune to this effect. The other side has some itens and a book related to the plot, but that's it. Most of Aria of Sorrow's useless powers comes from the Enchant type. And that is a small fear i have, since Bloodstained has the same type for Shards. Aria has a lot of stats-boosting souls that makes each other useless when you find stronger ones. One example is White Dragon (CON +4) / Quetzacoalt (CON +8) / Gorgon (CON + 12) / Dead Crusader (CON + 16). If you pick up Dead Crusader before the others, ALL OF THEM are completely useless now. And you have a lot of Enchant Souls like that in Aria. They tried to fix that by creating a single stat-boost soul for each parameter on Dawn, and making the souls capable of leveling. You also have other useless souls that canceals each other too, or are just plain useless on themselves. A good example of this is Poison Worm (makes you immune to poison) and Zombie (makes you stronger when poisoned). First of all, Poison Warm shows up MUCH LATER but Zombie is way better. So, if you got Zombie soul first (and that's quite likely), Poison Worm soul is pretty much useless. And not only that, poison in Aria of Sorrow lasts for less than one minute, to give you the trouble of wasting the Enchant Soul slot to equip such things. Another pretty useless soul on Aria of Sorrow is Devil. It's a familiar, really close to Alucard's Devil, but it never does anything besides flying around and attacking enemies when it feels like and that's quite rare. Aria of Sorrow is a very good game, but man, it does have a ton of useless powers. I wonder if that may be the reason why they decided to make some enemies (it seems) in Bloodstained, to be "shardless". We only know for sure that Morte has no Shard, but i'm sure other enemies will also not have them, in order to avoid the "useless factor" that some powers could have, like it happened on Aria of Sorrow (and a bit on Dawn).
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Post by Enkeria on Mar 28, 2018 11:05:18 GMT -6
Pure MiriamIf all shards are intentended to work wonders at some areas or at any time, keep them. Save time on development by ignoring shard skills that feels too boring, off or non-interesting. Also, you can set, if not, passive + bonus on skills if anything. Even though you found a +10 int passive shard, but later on a +9, you still get the "collection". Boring? Yes.. So question is, why not have just 1 type of + int. Maybe introduce a higher + in New Game Plus. Having tiers but only once you already owned it, and in New Game Plus. I do not collect on shards, but I understand if others do. It would be easier for every part to make shards limited, more useful and interesting. Both as a collecting gamer, and as a developer. Less is more. But also, make enough shards to keep you going. The subject here is "useless" shards. I vote against it. It's hard to make everything balanced and equal fun/intersting in terms of skills. But with skills comes perhaps replayability - other ways to play the game, additional free expansion so to speak, to have and play a "new build" as they call it. This is mostly an RPG or MMO thing. But since Bloodstained is an ARPG + Platform and some other things combined, it could work. I think there will be enough. I just feel its a waste to stack skills I do not EVER wanna touch. And it feels like, those hours could be spent to animate a candle extra nice instead for example.
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Post by allooutrick on Mar 28, 2018 12:00:06 GMT -6
Many of the examples I was going to use have already been mentioned but I'm all for variety. Ideally I think they should have a use in combat or exploration.
Ideas I can think of are: -the crystalized areas of Miriam reflect light with great intensity. Essentially making her a living disco ball that can immobilize enemies with blindness. -leave a trail of crystal roses where she steps -purify undead. The revived creature runs away, knocking over whatever is in the way. -Summon a mimic chest to lure humanoids.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Mar 28, 2018 15:19:14 GMT -6
Thank you allooutrick for coming up with some shards that seem interesting... my favorite is the summon mimic one...I know you made it as a distraction for enemies but wouldn't it be cool if it followed you and ate enemies then "pooped" out gold or items lol... the higher level, the more gold or (rare) resources they can get dropped lol. Pure Miriam the devil summon... I think the "summons" will be fixed in this game (I hope) I am hoping it will be fleshed out so I doubt any of the summons will be a waste... some may be less useful but not useless (again I hope... I don't actually know). and Enkeria I am thinking the +stat shards are fixed... or at least Iga-sama fixed them in DoS where they level up, I doubt he would take a step backwards just for the sake of adding more shards into the game. he does not seem like the type to "cheap out" or I hope not.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 28, 2018 17:49:00 GMT -6
Enkeria JeffCrossAria of Sorrow had Headhunter Soul, a soul from a boss that gave bonuses to all parameters (except Luck) for each certain number of souls you had. The fun (and hidden) aspect of this is that you could actually have more than 9 souls of each. The game still shows only as "9" but the internal system could count beyond that. Headhunter Soul gives +1 by each 16 souls you have, either different or stacked, counting beyond 9 each, although you can't see that. So, you can try to fill Soma with hundreds of souls to overpower Headhunter to it's limit (i think it caps on +33 for each parameter). Some of those hidden things are also good and fun ideas.
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Post by Galamoth on Mar 28, 2018 18:27:25 GMT -6
I'm not exactly sure if the thought of Miriam turning into the Bloodstained equivalent of Axe Armor will be considered a joke, but I think it will make for a cool shard power to have around and a respectable throwback to Iga's games for the fans. Shovel Armor!
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Post by allooutrick on Mar 28, 2018 20:01:14 GMT -6
@jeffcross that would be great actually. Like it's spitting out anything it won't eat. Or more specifically lining Miriam's pockets with mimic grade fertilizer. I can just imagine the mimic giving her a disgusted look too lol.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Mar 28, 2018 21:35:54 GMT -6
allooutrick that would be funny hahaha... there should be things the mimic can't eat... but I think either though leveling or through shards it can eat almost anything by the end of the game... or at least by its max Lv. I think it should have many different looks it gives Miriam I think all the summons should have different reactions to Miriam actions
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Post by Sustained on Apr 5, 2018 12:01:20 GMT -6
It is likely we will see a variety of shards with both general and niche uses.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 18, 2018 18:09:13 GMT -6
ENCHANT SHARD: Mac Radar Obtained from: Candlestick Description: When equipped, Miriam gains the ability to instantly locate nearby bowls of Mac 'n Cheese. The quickest path to these delicious meals are indicated by a cartoonish "scent trail". Leveling: N/A
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Post by Mr. Welldone on Jul 16, 2018 13:47:29 GMT -6
I said it elsewhere, but Dark Metamorphosis needs to come back. Alucard's voice actor so powerfully delivered such a cool sounding ability that's only useful for recovering life in a room next to a save area...
But... DARK METAMORPHOSIS!
Even considering Gurthang's damage boost from it, it's just the best letdown of an ability ever.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 23, 2018 3:27:57 GMT -6
It would be pretty fun if summon type souls joined in when Miriam uses her "Jojo pose" action. Similar to how the fairy would perch on you when you stand still in SotN.
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