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Post by crocodile on Jul 27, 2015 15:05:50 GMT -6
When I say grinding, I mean wailing on enemies to increase your levels and stats (so you deal more damage and take less in return). Grinding is for levels, Farming is for items - that's been standard RPG nomenclature since forever
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 27, 2015 16:35:22 GMT -6
Ah, well then. Farming would be less of a problem if the items were limited. Difficulty would be easier to design for due to knowing the player will not have 99 potions to use Grinding would only be necessary if the challenge was so difficult it couldn't be completed with the alloted healimg item limit. In that case, keep in mind Iga requires that his bosses be able to be defeated without getting hit once. No one should depend on grinding due to not being able to skillfully navigate an area or beat a boss because multiple tries means getting more familiar with pattens. Perhaps they keep their xp even though they die and the retrys are the grinding.
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Post by crocodile on Jul 27, 2015 21:22:53 GMT -6
The thing is, unless you force healing items on the player, the game designer can't assume the player has any. You have to choose to buy potions and you have to choose to pick up wall meat or enemy drops that heal. So in any encounter or scenario, you could have anywhere from the max # of healing items to absolutely zero. If you're going to let the number of healing items influence design, the only sensible thing is to design as if the player has no healing items and just let said items be a way for the player to make the game easier for themselves if they wish or need to. As you've pointed out, the bosses are already designed that way - I'd assume the rest of the game to follow.
On another note, what would it even mean for the sake of difficulty scaling if the game assumed you always had 10 but no more than 10 potions? Enemies hit less hard/are dumber than they would be if you could have 99 potions? Also do we mean "10 item limit" to mean you could have 10 potions, 10 mid potions, 10 hyper potions, etc. or just 10 "potions" of any type? There's also the fact that if you've got a large stockpile of healing items I would assume that is because A) you're buying so many because you need them and a low limit is only a time waster (multiple trips back to the shop or repeated farming even if its not super long each time) or B) you're so good or the game so easy you never need to use them. Either way, I'm not seeing how a low limit encourages better game design in a way a high/no limit wouldn't. Even with a lower limit, its not a variable you can control for.
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Post by Rigel on Jul 27, 2015 23:38:54 GMT -6
I like the soul system the most, but its true that the subweapons can take more importance in the classic mode
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 28, 2015 3:12:59 GMT -6
Ah, well then. Farming would be less of a problem if the items were limited. Difficulty would be easier to design for due to knowing the player will not have 99 potions to use Grinding would only be necessary if the challenge was so difficult it couldn't be completed with the alloted healimg item limit. In that case, keep in mind Iga requires that his bosses be able to be defeated without getting hit once. No one should depend on grinding due to not being able to skillfully navigate an area or beat a boss because multiple tries means getting more familiar with pattens. Perhaps they keep their xp even though they die and the retrys are the grinding. I think there should be a limited amount for healing items e.g. 10 per healing items, 2 per resurrect item and 99 for all other items... I mean this is a collecting type game they should give us the ability to raise 99 of each collectable item. (I think we should be able to desynthesize weapons to their basic components) but as i said in another thread if you end up farming, you end up grinding by "accident" and (imo) may ruin the game that way... so I propose there should be an item that greatly raises luck but completely stops exp growth.
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JoJo
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Post by JoJo on Jul 28, 2015 3:20:47 GMT -6
Ah, well then. Farming would be less of a problem if the items were limited. Difficulty would be easier to design for due to knowing the player will not have 99 potions to use Grinding would only be necessary if the challenge was so difficult it couldn't be completed with the alloted healimg item limit. In that case, keep in mind Iga requires that his bosses be able to be defeated without getting hit once. No one should depend on grinding due to not being able to skillfully navigate an area or beat a boss because multiple tries means getting more familiar with pattens. Perhaps they keep their xp even though they die and the retrys are the grinding. I think there should be a limited amount for healing items e.g. 10 per healing items, 2 per resurrect item and 99 for all other items... I mean this is a collecting type game they should give us the ability to raise 99 of each collectable item. (I think we should be able to desynthesize weapons to their basic components) but as i said in another thread if you end up farming, you end up grinding by "accident" and (imo) may ruin the game that way... so I propose there should be an item that greatly raises luck but completely stops exp growth. That is kinda a bit too extreme though... on the EXP growth
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 28, 2015 3:33:53 GMT -6
I think there should be a limited amount for healing items e.g. 10 per healing items, 2 per resurrect item and 99 for all other items... I mean this is a collecting type game they should give us the ability to raise 99 of each collectable item. (I think we should be able to desynthesize weapons to their basic components) but as i said in another thread if you end up farming, you end up grinding by "accident" and (imo) may ruin the game that way... so I propose there should be an item that greatly raises luck but completely stops exp growth. That is kinda a bit too extreme though... on the EXP growth it is your choice to use it. it's just sometimes we end up lv up to the point of over-leveling when we farm. so I think this item would be perfect. it should give the highest luck bonus in the game. of course it would be in exchange for your EXP growth but of course, when you unequipped it, you can gain EXP like normal again... it should be called the "Farmer's Ring" or something.
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JoJo
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Post by JoJo on Jul 28, 2015 4:08:48 GMT -6
That is kinda a bit too extreme though... on the EXP growth it is your choice to use it. it's just sometimes we end up lv up to the point of over-leveling when we farm. so I think this item would be perfect. it should give the highest luck bonus in the game. of course it would be in exchange for your EXP growth but of course, when you unequipped it, you can gain EXP like normal again... it should be called the "Farmer's Ring" or something. If you put it that way, that particular item need to be in the inventory like from when the game starts Kinda illogical if it only can be created in later game... And we still never consider the backtracking, which I'm not really a fan of it
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 28, 2015 4:59:52 GMT -6
it is your choice to use it. it's just sometimes we end up lv up to the point of over-leveling when we farm. so I think this item would be perfect. it should give the highest luck bonus in the game. of course it would be in exchange for your EXP growth but of course, when you unequipped it, you can gain EXP like normal again... it should be called the "Farmer's Ring" or something. If you put it that way, that particular item need to be in the inventory like from when the game starts Kinda illogical if it only can be created in later game... And we still never consider the backtracking, which I'm not really a fan of it I would think it would be craftable or buyable early in the game... maybe the amount of luck grows with the character's lv and the backtracking is a staple in the game so that cannot change. it comes from the zelda like gameplay Iga (and his team) wanted from the beginning.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 28, 2015 5:06:18 GMT -6
If you put it that way, that particular item need to be in the inventory like from when the game starts Kinda illogical if it only can be created in later game... And we still never consider the backtracking, which I'm not really a fan of it I would think it would be craftable or buyable early in the game... maybe the amount of luck grows with the character's lv and the backtracking is a staple in the game so that cannot change. it comes from the zelda like gameplay Iga (and his team) wanted from the beginning. For the backtracking, I hope they put teleportation system. It's kinda of a pain to walk all over the place just to farm, and it is the biggest castle IGA will make The backtracking will be clocking in more rather than the hours played later when I played it So yeah, but that is my opinion only
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 28, 2015 5:12:03 GMT -6
I would think it would be craftable or buyable early in the game... maybe the amount of luck grows with the character's lv and the backtracking is a staple in the game so that cannot change. it comes from the zelda like gameplay Iga (and his team) wanted from the beginning. For the backtracking, I hope they put teleportation system. It's kinda of a pain to walk all over the place just to farm, and it is the biggest castle IGA will make The backtracking will be clocking in more rather than the hours played later when I played it So yeah, but that is my opinion only well yeah, there will be a teleportation system, that is also a staple of igavania's (or would he prefer zeldavaina?)... I wonder if we will be able to create our own teleporting points.
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JoJo
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Post by JoJo on Jul 28, 2015 5:48:27 GMT -6
For the backtracking, I hope they put teleportation system. It's kinda of a pain to walk all over the place just to farm, and it is the biggest castle IGA will make The backtracking will be clocking in more rather than the hours played later when I played it So yeah, but that is my opinion only well yeah, there will be a teleportation system, that is also a staple of igavania's (or would he prefer zeldavaina?)... I wonder if we will be able to create our own teleporting points. I actually always been thinking of that idea
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