Update 57 November KickStarter Update is Live Now!

I don't have a problem with the game per se and that giant rat is awesome!

I've never been a fan of how Miriam looks, why is she even wearing like a maid's skirt in the first place?
Shanoa looked more bad ass in my opinion.

If everybody give positive feedback on the cute stuff then ofcourse they're going to add more, so I just think it's important that they know that not all of their fans like that stuff.

I've put down $300 on this and it's my most hyped game for 2018 so this is my only gripe.

I see the gripe of the cuteness in the game but I don't think these outfits or tropes will take over the game... I think if you don't like it, don't use the item... or better yet I hope there is a glamor system so you can use the items without the physical change.

but again in most if not all of Iga-sama's castlevainia games there were some out of place cuteness in it and that just added to the charm IMO... but again this is only my opinion, so take it as that.

Jango kronfarfar

I agree with both of you. I don't think we three completely understood that the style of the game from the start was one that included the otaku culture you find in Akihabara. Sure, we saw that Miriam was in a Lolita dress, but that was our only clue that the "oh Japan" element was a part of the game's foundation. Our next clues were that the bosses Vepar and Bloodless were sexy monster girls, and we were shown customization images that included elf ears and color changes for her skin and hair.



When the beast beret showed to be a kawaii corgi hat, it was solidly confirmed. Bunny outfit makes it clear that now there is no question Bloodstained has an underlying theme focusing on that foreign culture of Japan they have been enjoying for a long time which Americans also are fascinated by. 

One of you used the word "pandering" earlier, and I completely disagree with that sentiment. It's not pandering, it's just IGA being himself. He has no reason to make this style decision for other people. In fact, the more he strays away from the style of SotN in particular, the more he is just doing his own thing. At first I thought it was IntiCreates with their Gal Gun "oh Japan" style that were shaping this tone into Bloodstained, but I'm sure that is no longer the case and has not been so for a long time now.

I'm sure you aren't the only two fans that feel this way. It's a surprise to me as well, but I am embracing this underlying otaku style element because I don't believe it will be overly obvious in a way that completely shifts the tone of the game. The monsters are unique crystal laden demons of the goetia. We have a boss that spews more blood than an Army of Darkness scene. We have seriously dark and gothic locations that exceed my expectations. The plot is tied to the Laki Volcano disaster that devistated the world. The fight with Zangetsu looks bad ass. All the little otaku things are optional. Silly things have been part of IGAvania games for a long time. 

Even in the original Castlevania ROM there are some things like this.



Ladie's shoes? A blessed cup of ? A basket of kittens? A love letter? Castlevania has always secretly had more "oh Japan" stuff goin on. When IGA got involved it only grew. Because Japan.

Bigfoot, the succubus bath, vacuum maids, Stella and Loretta Lecarde, hamburgers, miso soup, New York style pizza, curry rice, hard to eat peanuts, wall meat, creme soda with a cherry on top, canned tomato juice, there is a lot of silly stuff. In SotN one of the first items you find are cool shades and in this latest update now we see Miriam has some shades. There are a lot of IGA fans that like these things, and I'm certainly one of them.

Yeah, Japan is weird and some of that is in Bloodstained. Let IGA be IGA and don't expect him to pander to you. We still have a Gothic exploration game that includes a giant demon filled castle, a dark plot, interesting characters and unique bosses. This is the first side scrolling IGAvania game to escape hand held systems since SotN. I'm absolutely sure IGA wants to please the SotN fans, and from what I have seen he is on the right track.

I hope that like me, you can embrace this otaku stuff . It's a peek into a weird culture that I find interesting, and whether you like it or not it's always kinda been in the shadows of Castlevania. We can voice our opinions, but try to accept the things you can't change and please remain constructive. Not that you haven't been constructive, I just hate to see someone's hype deflate just because of a few optional style decisions that are on the fringe of the game experience.

Well, what I was going to say on this was pretty simple and Mike basically covered it already: there's no pandering to a certain audience here. It's Japanese people making a Japanese game. To not do that would be pandering.

I'm often seeing folks that have the impression that CV games are more gory/horror/dark and serious than they really are imo. One of my older posts about that:

I must say that it's really awesome to see your comments (also kronfarfar 's) regarding the matter. They display an incredible amount of politeness while maintaining a lucid critique to those aspects you don't like for one reason or another. I think it's one of the fundamentals of critique: showing that you like and respect a work, while pointing out things that, however, you don't like.

It's especially rare in the internet days, when if you critique a certain aspect of a certain work it often passes the message that you mustn't have liked that work in general, which is really puzzling to me. Thank IGA that this community remains a solid example of a good environment to exchange opinions, comments, appreciation and critiques.

A lot of meaty conversation since I last visited this thread. Some of my general thoughts below:

A) I don't agree with Jango or kronfarfar on the nature of Miriam's mannerisms or design (but it is not an uncommon sentiment outside these forums) but I do think their feedback here is valuable To me, as Galamoth notes, IGAs games have been gothic horror but never with a tone ala Dark Souls or Bloodborne - they were lighter than that with a lot of silly elements. Note the recurring Persephone enemy as one of many examples

B) I think Miriam's base design elements come more from a desire to give Miriam a softer edge than any outward appeals to "otakus". I think the origin of customization options more arose from the popularity of such features in SOTN that appeals to "otaku" as well. However, I admit there is still a lot about the customization options we don't know or how the system is narratively justified in-game. If we start seeing stuff like swimsuits then yeah you kind of lose all sense of plausible deniability LOL.

As an aside, I wouldn't read the presence of Monster Girls as necessarily "otaku" bait either. Monster Girls have been a staple of Castlevania games for a while and the Monster Girl concept transcends Japanese culture. They've been a thing in Western artist circles for years before the influx of some of the recent high profile monster girl anime/manga.

C) I hate the word pandering - so often people seem to use it just to say "thing I don't like" and its lost much of its meaning as a result."To pander" specifically means to appease or gratify in a negative, self-serving, dishonest and often destructive way. Giving Miriam a cute side with maybe some cute outfits is not pandering unless he was forced to do so against his own will and/or did so merely for sales even if it would clash with the tone of the game, hurt the narrative, etc. Conversely, though its too late now, if IGA heard feedback to take Miriam in "edgier" direction and did so, that's not pandering either as long as it was by his own will and doesn't clearly negatively affect other aspects of the game. As I've said 1000 times, artists don't live or create in vacuums. If they are doing their job, they will hear what others are saying, filter our good/bad ideas and, after some reflection, respond to and incorporate the ideas they agree with.

D) Japan isn't a cultural monolith in terms of what it produces. I dislike "oh that's just the way Japan is" as a means to handwave criticism as Japan makes a ton of different stuff. People don't have to settle - if they want "more"/"better" they can ask for it and Japan is capable of delivering (I mean this broadly, not specifically to Bloodstained).

E) Bloodstained is a Japanese game made by mostly Japanese artisans. However Castlevania is a series much more popular in the West than the East and it was mostly Western money and interest that allows this project to exist. While there is no power that FORCES IGA to consider and design with at least modest/significant acknowledgement of the preferences of the West, it would have been artistic and economic malpractice to not weigh the concerns and preferences of Western audiences (hence why he clearly did so to some degree).

F) If a product is made in Japan by the Japanese but then sold internationally, it is judged by the standards of every culture worldwide, not just Japanese culture.The Japanese are free to do as they please but consumers in other cultures in turn do get to say "no thanks" if particular elements are significant turn offs.



Agree with this 100%! I can't tell you how annoying and sometimes infuriating it is when people see you critique something, even fiercely, and automatically assume you must:

• Hate the product
  
• Hate the creator(s)
  
• Hate those who enjoy the product as is

Can make conversations of this nature very difficult online. Thankfully that isn't happening here

Right, I don't disagree with crocodile's thoughts on this, I often speak in generalizations to a loss of deeper (and sometimes important) concessions. For example, yes, it's quite important to consider western sensibilities for a product mostly inspired from western fans that very much helped this thing become a success (and continue to do so, as we are now). That is not to put too much weight on our effort, opinions and financing, but weight nonetheless. haha it's really hard to say something on the internet and it not be taken as a huge statement (similar to the above being pointed out, how a comment on something is taken to be the extreme finality of what they believe about something, such as the love/hate poles).

My main point from before about the pandering thing is that the team is making the game they want to make. It's their taste and what they do, the game they want, more than a desire to make it such a way for a demographic of people - i.e. the perceived idea of "pandering" whether that's its true definition or not. Yet still, I would agree that if after consideration he decides to change things to a different direction, that's still his creative decision and not pandering mostly because I know him to not be one to do that. We have experienced an example of this already with Miriam's design, the very old now change from a male to female character. What I would consider actual pandering happens more often in the mobile/gacha/DLC spaces where it's often exacerbated by compulsive gambling and/or nostalgia.

Anyway, that's too sad, so about something else: swimsuits and more drastic "sexy" directions. I don't think you all have to worry about this one way or another - the skeleton of Miriam's model is already pretty set and we know basically as a fact that her main outfit doesn't change, and when it does, it's to something fairly similar in the Pure Miriam costume (I'm thinking they achieve this look with some detail/texture adjustments to the original corset, add sleeves and that's the majority of the changes). To undertake something more sexy (or cute, or edgy) to wear as an outfit choice would most likely be prohibitively too much of an undertaking, for a move that potentially could be a problem reception-wise on top of that. It's just very unlikely.

The bikini or whatnot would also have to somehow allow scarf attachments. That could make sense somehow, but it'd be another headache and probably look bad with 90% of things lol.

I'm honestly just so overly stoked about the return of my most favorite weapon of SOTN, the Combat Knife!! XD

It still looks fast! Though maybe not quite as speedy. I doubt it'll be as effective in Bloodstained (most likely an early game weapon this time), but... ah, a man can dream!

I'm such a sucker for options & customization though, I love this game more and more every time I see it

Enkeria
About the concept art, i believe that it was totally just that. A concept art. The dev team had just an idea of what they wanted to do. The game's magic system was undecided when they did that, so, they added that power at that concept art just to highlight that the game would have "powers". I don't think it will turn out in anything. Swords with skills like Symphony and Dawn is something whose status is still kind of a mystery. We will have to wait and see.

About your second question of equipment, i took a screenshot of the official Bloodstained account answering people, addressing that matter more or less