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Post by krystal on Nov 8, 2017 20:50:13 GMT -6
That would be so cool and interesting, and there could be story elements that would cause Miriam to convince herself that's the best path to take. it would also add more roleplaying freedom since the player is Miriam, wouldn't the player have control to consider another path other than what's perceived as "good"? Perhaps Bloodstained could blur good and evil, and make it so gaining power and control, can be for the greater good, and the castle itself could have possibilities and would be a total waste to destroy. Even if Miriam is perceived as evil by lesser minds for taking that path, symbolically, it could be designed so right and wrong are really based on perspective, instead of the black and white stereotyping that stories usually go through.
normally, IGA vania endings boil down to the protagonist defeating antagonist and castle crumbles, or neutral and they just leave, or maybe someone goes evil, but their outcome is vague, or the protagonist sacrifices themself, and/or their friend does. (that sucks) or the protagonist becomes "pure", and the usual goody two shoes apple pie rainbows event occurs.
an alternate ending really would stand out more with option for Miriam to take absolute power and castle for herself
there's very few games in the industry where the protagonist can switch sides and take a more dominant path, which would allow them to have control and choose how to use that power, ensuring no one else stands above them in the future.
like in Street of Rage 1, any of the protagonists (including Blaze Fielding) can betray their partner, kill them, kill the antagonist as well, and take over the syndicate as the new leader. (which can be interpreted in several ways.)
in Contra Hard Corps, there's an ending where any character (including Sheena Etranzi) can join the antagonist's side, and has really epic ending art worth a thousand words. (which can be perceived as underling or alliance path, but those that choose that path, combining forces with the antagonist, actually opens new possibilities)
in The Last Blade 2, Hibiki can take a path of mercy, or lots of killing and bloodshed, which can change her attitude and she can pursue a more violent lifestyle. (which is equivalent to a cold assassin for hire, but it still is an interesting and thrilling path to choose from than the usual "avenge parent and go home" deal. )
in Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse, the anarchy path leads towards very dark yet most empowering outcome ever created.
well its up to the developers how they want Bloodstained to be perceived, and if they are gonna stick the status quo perception of good and evil, or gonna delve further into more open minded possibilities and outcomes.
either way, Miriam should not be punished for whatever path is taken. so light or dark, each path should be rewarding. and of course the darker path should be naturally more rewarding and empowering since that reflects upon the nature of power being extremely enticing.
I feel this subject and adding something like the title has, could make Bloodstained something deeper instead of so one sided.
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Post by 緋月エリ on Nov 9, 2017 2:07:54 GMT -6
For some reason this remind me of the Dracula endings on Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow. I really like this idea!
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Post by Nezuto on Nov 10, 2017 5:02:49 GMT -6
Maybe even add in a bonus in the vein (kerpun) of AoS and allow you to take/control that power and some extra story elements? Would make for some fun times, regardless, but the squee is real.
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Post by Clear on Nov 10, 2017 5:57:12 GMT -6
As one who played all the GBA and DS Igavanias and loved each and every one of them, is it not fair that I'm expecting this to be in Bloodstained? I mean, it makes sense. Miriam gets 100% corrupted, with her whole body stain-glass'ed, decides to side real hard to the evil / dark side, then becomes the lord of the castle!
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 10, 2017 9:52:30 GMT -6
"That woman said she was the lord (lady?) of this castle..." - Zangetsu mode, where Miriam is essentially corrupted Richter lol.
Sounds also kind of like the dark lord ending in Dark Souls. Definitely ambiguous whether it's evil or not depending on how you interpret the game world. I think a clear cut "good" path is important to have too, though.
The endings could go several different ways with IGA deciding later which one ends up being canon, or leaving that somewhat of an unknown with plausible points for a few.
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Post by DSLevantine on Nov 10, 2017 11:58:52 GMT -6
A game I can think of which executed this very well is Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together PSP
in Lawful route (canon), MC decided to dirty his hands and massacre the whole village then put the blame on his enemy
in Langrisser 2 and 4, depending on your choice, you can slay all your former team mates.
elder scroll, MC is the guild master of thief guild and assassin guild
Back to topic, a good vs evil story is very childish while story with moral ambiguity is very interesting.
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Post by freddythemonkey on Nov 10, 2017 12:46:35 GMT -6
Back to topic, a good vs evil story is very childish while story with moral ambiguity is very interesting. Not necessarily. It all depends on the execution and writing. There probably will be a "bad ending" with Miriam becoming fully corrupted, but I think it will be the usual IGA bad ending (one that stops you before you've seen everything). Maybe IGA will take the concept one step further and add this as an alternate ending with equal "dignity", but of course it won't be as developed as it would be in a proper RPG.
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Post by DSLevantine on Nov 10, 2017 18:38:10 GMT -6
Back to topic, a good vs evil story is very childish while story with moral ambiguity is very interesting. Not necessarily. It all depends on the execution and writing. There probably will be a "bad ending" with Miriam becoming fully corrupted, but I think it will be the usual IGA bad ending (one that stops you before you've seen everything). Maybe IGA will take the concept one step further and add this as an alternate ending with equal "dignity", but of course it won't be as developed as it would be in a proper RPG. I agree, it all depends on the execution and writing. The problem is, we need a very good story writer to execute it well, bloodstained is not a novel so I don't think they have time and resource to do that. From my experience with JRPG and movies, a good vs evil story means a very naive protagonist with plot armor. On the other hand, antagonist always refuses to kill protagonist for no reason. If the dev wants to have a good vs evil story, I hope they can do better than that.
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 13, 2017 15:18:07 GMT -6
I had an idea for an Ending similar to this in another thread, but it involves a Secret Ending after starting a New Game+.
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Post by 緋月エリ on Nov 14, 2017 20:54:20 GMT -6
For some reason this remind me of the Dracula endings on Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow. I really like this idea! To add to this, maybe they could do a shout out to Dawn of Sorrow and let players play as one of the player characters (maybe Johannes...?) to go through the castle (preferably in a different layout or corrupted looking to reflect Miriam's new state) and fight Miriam as a final boss. [HASH]corruptmiriam; [HASH]possiblenewcastle; [HASH]johannes; [HASH]dawnofsorrow
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Post by Enkeria on Nov 22, 2017 6:49:42 GMT -6
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 22, 2017 14:29:53 GMT -6
Ah yes, there we are. The very first time I posted my Secret Ending idea was here in Enkeria 's thread (though I didn't directly indicate it was a "Secret" Ending, just an alternate one). [HASH]SecretEnding
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 25, 2017 13:29:50 GMT -6
I have to say, as much as I really enjoy the idea of an alternate ending wherein Miriam herself becomes the new true villain, I've also entertained an idea for a potential twist to this. SECRET/"BAD" ENDING (New Game+): One wherein Miriam destroys the Castle, seals the hellish portal that demons are coming from, and successfully saves every other character (with the possible exception of Alfred or Gebel). So, perhaps like the Good/Best Ending? Except... Ultimately, when she leaves the company of the other characters, she reveals herself to still be cursed with a creepy smile toward the camera. Miriam was the villain the whole time, and she intends for another demon-related disaster to happen just so she can acquire more power. She has defeated the possibility of death via the Curse, but still intends to abuse it. ^Of course, this idea for a Secret Ending need not be "canon" (I'd doubt Miriam is secretly evil anyway). Just a silly and entertaining idea for her "true" motivation for going on this adventure.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 7, 2017 15:36:12 GMT -6
As much as i would love to see something like that, i feel that this would be too much "Castlevania" and, as i repeated here countless times, Bloodstained is a spiritual sucessor of Castlevania, but it isn't Castlevania. It must be somewhat different, walk it's own path and build it's own way.
So, in my desire as a player, i would like to see that. But in my desire to see Bloodstained turning into a sucessful franchise with it's own merits, and not being just a shadow of the past that it's trying to recreate, i wouldn't like to see that at all. I expect the plot to be interesting, creative and with more than one ending, but if they do that, it would so little creative and so much "let's do whatever Castlevania did" that i wouldn't like.
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Post by Nezuto on Dec 13, 2017 2:01:25 GMT -6
While that is very true, it wouldn't necessarily be "let's do whatever Castlevania did" since there are many games, non-IGA made, that fall under the genre of Metroidvania. Most have the same types of mechanics or multiple endings to it, even non Metroidvania games.
I can completely understand the point being made in regards to the idea needing to be more fresh, though.......How about something along the lines of a time loop/curse loop? You run through the game and whether you achieve 100% or not would impact your "New Game+" mode in that the ending of the game leads directly to the events where you begin and on each consequent playthrough the map gains subtle changes, enemy placements and types differ for the areas and so on. Maybe have it explained as crystals having multiple facets, as does Miriam/the story.
Just random late night banter is all =P.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 13, 2017 18:37:18 GMT -6
She might take a throne when we save.. ?
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Post by Galamoth on Dec 13, 2017 21:02:38 GMT -6
Enkeria Or just this, for all we know.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 12:22:51 GMT -6
Always wanted an "evil" ending! If that is possible, then by all means, "Yes, please!"
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