Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Post by Enkeria on Jul 9, 2017 12:31:18 GMT -6
Greetings, About Morte, why we can see this creature becoming the main weak enemy in Bloodstained, and perhaps if there will be a franchise, the first villain for the player to be introduced into the combat-system, platform strategies and the "feel" of the Igavania you are about to explore. IntroductionMy theory: "Morte is a symbiosis, a creature that feast upon flesh and living creatures. There is no need for bones for a structure to hold it up. It's sluggish movement and attack pattern makes up for the count surrounding you in your travels. The creature seems to be sleeping until something living comes close enough for it to sense a pulse. It is unclear what Morte's roll is in hell, but according to the ferrymen across many rivers of lost souls it may very well be a forgotten one, who's essence have been tainted and now seek a way out of quench its thirst for blood. They are seen in drawings that swirl in the depths as the boats take lost souls across the realm of infernal regions, with the lake Styx being the most vivid of movements and feared even by the bravest of warrior. No coin, no boat and no passage. Morte will grab you and pull you in, down, under, into eternal darkness." Morte, Zombies & Skeletons (and Mudmen)As a design, Morte is quite brilliant, since the black goo can form like magical fluid, it should in theory be a vicious enemy if combined with smarter Morte's. In Castlevania we had zombies, ghouls and mudmen, rising from the ground (or sand), and at that very moment, they were a threat. They came in numbers and moved in different pace depending on which game you played. They went from one direction to another, with no real attack, just being a living object that took away your health by touch, and a knockback applied. Skeletons came into the play a bit later, being more agile and smarter. They threw things and they could even jump around and aim. The later incarnations of Castlevania introduced giant skulls, crawling ribcage of beasts using own limbs as weapons. There were cursed skeletons that threw spicy curry at you if they saw you on their way to the master. Intelligence was a thing and the bones had more humanity in them than the zombies and mudmen. Can Morte live up to the old monsters behavior?Imagine Morte being a living matter, with combinations OVER skeletons, OVER zombies / ghouls and OVER mudmen, they might be incarnate as something purely new. Imagine a boss that actually control Morte, being a type of brain that use them as limbs. Even though it seems that crystals are inside of Morte, small fragments, what if these shards was bigger, stronger.. badder? The reason I believe Morte is a brilliant monster is the endless possibility that it can take both the form, and the behavior of older enemies. While staying true to the new Bloodstained concept, they can very well be the next generation of Zombies and Skeletons. Nothing says that we can't have all three in the game, but as it seems. Morte is one enemy that can replace them if needed. Trivias: Compare to the Zombies that hurt you the moment they are animated, Morte are easier on you, they will not attack until they can see you, plenty of time to move out of the way before engage in battle. And if you watch closely, the Morte goes backwards, having the chin straight up, in a smiling effort to kill you. Image from: lezisell.deviantart.com/art/Bloodstained-Ritual-of-the-Night-Enemies-XPS-657107359Game Features with Morte Boss battle: A boss throws them at you, once boss is defeated (or so you think) the morte combines to show the true boss. Morte Creatures: If Morte can take on the shape of a man, can it take a shape of other creatures? I remember the Black Panther in Symphony of the Night had a similar treat. Tiers of Morte: What happens if bigger and stronger ones combine their strenght? What happens if these giants have different shards in them? What if they have stronger shards? Will they move faster? Will they submerge into the floor or ceiling and reappear behind you fast? Sub-categories of Morte: Acidspitters. Crawlers. Jawbreakers. Nightmare. Possessed Mannequins. Flying. Explosive Ones. Think about the possibilities! Essence is still Morte, but the design an animations different.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 9, 2017 17:23:45 GMT -6
I can't lie...I kinda miss traditional skeletons. The ones in the church weren't really a substitue...they still squished instead of cracked into an explosion of bones when they got hit and died. lol
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Post by Arsenical on Jul 9, 2017 21:42:31 GMT -6
im really going to miss the spooky scary skeletons and their silly bone throw and jump rushes, mortes are not a substitute and they look kinda gross like a pile of rotting flesh that cant compare to skeles specially the joke ones such as the waiter skeleton.
also the ones in AoS they were funnier they actually pulled their own bones from their skeletal bodies and threw them at you and they would even go as far as using their own skulls. i dont think bloodstained will be the end for skeletons maybe only the basic ones. but honestly i hope they dont abuse morte to fill the bestiary like they did with the 1 million skeletons boomerang, shooters, NINJAS!, Cultists, wereskeletons, giant skeletons, beam casters, magicians, waiters, knights, ghostly skeletons and many more! you should catch them all or make a game about them.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jul 10, 2017 1:38:38 GMT -6
Where did you get all that lore about Morte, Enkeria ? You made that up? Well, about Morte, as i talked about in some other thread and something i've been saying for quite some time already, is that Bloodstained needs to take some distance from Castlevanias. After all, the game is a spiritual sucessor not a carbon copy. I loved the traditional zombies and skeletons. Although zombies weren't, skeletons were TOO iconic for the Castlevania franchise, as Medusa heads were. Unfortunately, they had to go, or Bloodstained would bee too much of a carbon copy of the famed franchise. I see Morte as a brillant substitute to them as well. Morte has been described as a "Lesser Demon" and that's the reason it doesn't have a Shard. When we get the first Shard, the game says that shards are "demon's power that has been crystalized". So, Morte is so weak that it barely has any demon power to be crystallized in the first place. Morte Bone and Morte Cannon, howeever, have Shards. So, Morte itself is weak but when paired with other demons / effects, it becames stronger. I believe Skeletons and Zombies will be at the game, since they are a basic at horror games, but not the way we are used to them. I know some people don't want that, but i think we can expect to see Morte Swordmaster (substitute to Skeleton Knight), Morte Wings (substitute to Winged Skeleton), Undying Morte (substitute to Red Skeleton) and things like that.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Post by Enkeria on Jul 10, 2017 5:32:50 GMT -6
Where did you get all that lore about Morte, Enkeria ? You made that up? Made up Lesser demons never get a well-thought lore behind them, and to me it made sense. I will add it is a theory above. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 10, 2017 6:56:08 GMT -6
Morte seem like a brilliant ZOMBIE replacement but they really don't scratch the skeleton itch. It's like they took a zombie and had zombie animated mortes and zombies that throw bones, it's kinda meh.
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Post by Arsenical on Jul 10, 2017 19:23:17 GMT -6
i have renamed morte to muddy skeleton and works for me.
i agree that skeletons HAD TO GO for good not only for being to castlevania but because its enough already! we had bone throwing skeletons for like 20+ castlevanias and ROTN its a SS not a another game of the franchise we all loved, even if ROTN was a Castlevania i think i would have prefered morte over the exploited skeletons. but i still dont like mortes.
This is exactly what worries me. Yes morte is a creative way to make all these creatures a thing but im really really hoping they dont go to far to use it for say 15+ monsters like they did with skeles, why not mix them up and make some skeletons with swords, ghostly figures, zombies, mortes or even beastlike creatures instead of going full Barbie Doll and have a Morte for each thing.
The Bestiary its one the most important things in a game if its to big but repetitive (Slightly modified assets/models Palette swap, clones) its really meh and if its small but really creative with unique monsters its good. now a large bestiary with lots of creative designs makes for an awesome bestiary and tbh one of the many things i like about ROTN having nothing to do with konami is that IGA is not allowed to use the already used assets wich means we will see lots of new monsters. i still wonder why they went for dullahammer head instead of Decarabia or the little floating star they had in concept art, im hoping they use it as an upgraded late game version of dullahammer that shoots laser to make it extra annoying.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Jul 11, 2017 8:25:33 GMT -6
This is exactly what worries me. Yes morte is a creative way to make all these creatures a thing but im really really hoping they dont go to far to use it for say 15+ monsters like they did with skeles, why not mix them up and make some skeletons with swords, ghostly figures, zombies, mortes or even beastlike creatures instead of going full Barbie Doll and have a Morte for each thing. I agree from a design standpoint. It is always nice to see complete new enemies for each style of attack and animation. Having skeletons throwing shurikens, spears, and laserbeams are all cool, but having different types of monster doing "their thing" is a treat and something I would rather see. TIMEThe thing here is perhaps lack of time, this is why we had so many skeletons, because the idea pitched from dev to designer was simple "make a skeleton with throwing knives!" done, it was quick. This time around we have "Have this X that carries Y with Z attached to it so it can breath fire and stone, and throw knives from the tip of it's back like a hedgehog". Now the designer needs more time, more effort. So if this is the case, then there will be less Morte, and more mutation of Morte, or none at all (every monster is unique). FILL OUT EMPTY SPACEMorte is the new lesser demon that we will see a lot of, just to fill up some empty space wherever we go, but if more people are more into seeing new type of creatures instead of "same ol' Morte at it again, but this time wielding 5 axes", we need to make our voice heard so the designers knows what the people want in upcoming projects similar (or direct connected) to Bloodstained. MORTE DETAILS, NOT WHOLE GOO ENEMIESHaving at least one type of skeleton would be cool, like I said, with Morte attributes attached to it. If we have a bird, infected by morte, it could still be a bird, the "Morte" aspect of it could be minimal, but we would understand it was there, I do not mean a whole Morte bird, as an example. Its like the shards, the are visible, if there are more Morte out there, they could show a detail. How about a two legged giant Oxe with morte horns only? Or a big skeleton with Morte intestines only. It would make a cool concept, but not make Morte look like "the same over and over again".
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Post by spideryfingers on Jul 11, 2017 16:46:22 GMT -6
Skeletons have been associated with castles throughout history and deserve their place in games like Bloodstained/Castlevania. To be honest, every time I've began a Castlevania game, I always expected to encounter skeletons within the first few minutes and do enjoy smashing their bones all over the place as a 'starter'. However, skeletons are, arguably, the most exposed monsters in the Castlevania bestiary.
Zombies do next to nothing for me. I find them boring and I tend to just jump over them rather than kill them.
As for Morte, they're certainly better than zombies and on a par with skeletons but may have a bit more potential. The Morte creatures strike me as being much better in bigger numbers and I can envisage them like the following...
The Morte Lake - A large congregation of Morte forming a slimy lake that looks like bubbling black jam. Now, imagine the creatures acting like the larvae of Blister beetles ... in that they crawl and squirm on top of each other in order to form an extension and reach out for their target. The victim gets pulled into the lake and gets absorbed.
Granfalloon Morte - Similar to the boss from SotN but with countless Morte taking the place of naked bodies. This could be one very sticky encounter.
Chains of Morte - Attached or linked to each other and hanging like stalactite from castle ceilings to grab prey and reel them in.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Jul 11, 2017 16:58:44 GMT -6
I enjoyed some Zombies at least, "Bloody Zombie" were my fav. If you guys want some kind of poll, I am open for debate. Let me know, or start one. Zombies, Ghouls, Mudmen, Skeletons, Morte. Want it all?
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Post by spideryfingers on Jul 11, 2017 17:02:20 GMT -6
I'm all for the poll. Monsters are my favourite subject
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Jul 11, 2017 17:22:33 GMT -6
Poll added.
I were thinking, how about add wickermen instead of skeletons. They are made out of wood and sticks, the explosions could be as satisfying as those of bones. The twigs and sticks would be spread out or burn to crisp if used elemental fire or similar damage.
I voted on a new version of skeletons, keep morte.
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Post by allooutrick on Aug 27, 2017 18:01:22 GMT -6
I'd vote for Morte only if I could find the option in the poll. I'm all for a new enemy to take the skeleton's place. I think it's likely we'll see variants of Morte as well considering other games had giant skeletons, laser shooting skeletons, and even a type that chased it's own head.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 27, 2017 19:38:51 GMT -6
I'd vote for Morte only if I could find the option in the poll. I'm all for a new enemy to take the skeleton's place. I think it's likely we'll see variants of Morte as well considering other games had giant skeletons, laser shooting skeletons, and even a type that chased it's own head. Top one: "Morte & Morte hybrids would be cool." Yeah I liked the idea of stained glass skeletons, that would be new. CastleDan 's original idea.
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 27, 2017 19:45:54 GMT -6
I'd vote for Morte only if I could find the option in the poll. I'm all for a new enemy to take the skeleton's place. I think it's likely we'll see variants of Morte as well considering other games had giant skeletons, laser shooting skeletons, and even a type that chased it's own head. Top one: "Morte & Morte hybrids would be cool." Yeah I liked the idea of stained glass skeletons, that would be new. CastleDan 's original idea. I picked i want both because morte arent skeletons. They don't make a good replacement as is for skeletons. Now id be fine with the option something to replace skeletons with but since morte were originally thst and didn't cut it for me I couldn't pick that option. If I knew for sure they would replace them with something that truly feels in the spirit of a skeleton I'd pick the option tho
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Post by allooutrick on Aug 28, 2017 10:37:19 GMT -6
I'd vote for Morte only if I could find the option in the poll. Top one: "Morte & Morte hybrids would be cool." Yeah I liked the idea of stained glass skeletons, that would be new. CastleDan 's original idea. I don't know how I missed that. Thank you
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BloodyTears92
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[TI1]It is time for darkness. It is a blood banquet.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 29, 2017 13:03:48 GMT -6
Morte is basically a Mudman replacement. I'd love to see maybe different versions of Morte to stand-in for Skeletons and Zombies, like "Bone Morte" or "Rotting Morte" even though part of me wants Zombies and ESPECIALLY spooky scary skeletons to show up. DON'T GIVE UP SKELETON WE BELIEVE IN YOU!
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 29, 2017 13:33:41 GMT -6
We had a Bone Morte and it's basically like all the others except a bone launches out of it. The problem is I see this problem happen in other games and especially in another franchise that matters a lot to me : Resident Evil. Let's look to one of my favorite survival horror games right now - RE7 - You've got the molded right? Instead of making a completely different enemy design what do they do? Let's now make one that crawls and it can accomplish a different gameplay mechanic while re-using laregely the same designs. It's a problem, and you see it in RE all the time I mean look - These are from different Resident Evil games but they all look basically the same. So when I think of Morte I think ...okay they're using a black gooey creature to replace the Bone Pillars, to replace the bone throwing skeletons, to replace the zombies...etc...etc. It kills the diversity and it's not the most exciting design. I LOVED the morte design as is in the Boat level. I love the effect of lopping their heads off but with each new use of them they become more and more bland and that is the problem. Skeleton's were used a lot but they had easily definable features and were an iconic design which helped a great deal. In terms of definable features let's look at these two examples: The Licker in RE2 Looks visually better than 4-Legged Molded in RE7. (Sorry for small pic) ... Why? The Licker has easier to define visual traits. You know what has a clear and cool visual design ? The cool little Star guys. They're easy to define, they've got unique characteristics.....and they make a damn good replacement for medusa heads/Bats. However, they were replaced by a floating Dullahammer head. Who knows how they will be used now so maybe it's for a better reason. I'm just going by what I currently know which is obviously not a lot. If anything comes off as blunt or brash... I'm sorry I don't mean it that way. It's out of love
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 29, 2017 14:06:52 GMT -6
Bone Morte is kinda reminds me of Tarman from Return of the Living Dead. And that is a Zombie more or less, not a skeleton in traditional way. Image in spoilers - Scary stuff for faint of heart.
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