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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 27, 2017 9:31:51 GMT -6
Something new that I noticed in the latest gameplay that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that occasionally, little sacks/bags will drop from enemies that have items in them. The menu graphic for the item will pop out, rise slowly and disintegrate. Can't tell if there is a sound effect for collecting it, but hopefully:
Curry ends up with two pair of Kung-fu Shoes because of this. So, there we have it - weapons CAN drop from enemies and will, with a new little bag graphic. I liked the old days where the items just popped out of the enemy, but I think I'm fine with this too. I can't tell if/how Miriam needs to interact with the item to get it, but I'd think so. Has anyone seen any other drops like this? I can't say for certain I have or haven't, but seeing the concept in-game was certainly new to me.
Further, the chests...we've discussed this a bit elsewhere, but the game seems to be following the OoE method of having all guaranteed exploration items found in chests, and perhaps even randomized ones? We don't know, but the point I'd like to make is that I really enjoyed seeing the graphic for the item itself when I walked into the area it was in. Perhaps a sword on a pedestal, sitting upright with its flashing sprite, added more excitement to the sense of discovery than (always) chests. Similarly, we saw a destructible wall that had a chest behind it, but that doesn't carry the same feeling as breaking that wall to see the item itself laying there - some  , a new weapon, etc. It may not make as much real sense, but the game-y-ness of it ties into much of what I love Igavania tends to capture.
Also, perhaps if there's going to be a lot of chests, maybe they could tie into the gameplay somehow. In Valkyrie Profile for instance, chests could be used as platforms, carried, thrown, and broken if the player wasn't careful (same for valk's crystals!). It may be interesting if for example: you leave a chest closed instead of opening it at first sight, because upon examining the platforming of the room closer, you can jump atop the closed chest to reach a higher ledge that has another treasure. If you open that chest now, you miss out on whatever that item/area is until you get later game traversal abilities (double jump, flight, etc). They could also be used in puzzles, to activate switches, traps, other things...maybe even...mimics? 
About the bug thing, though:
Quite oddly, Miriam goes from having the spear equipped to selecting the shoes, but upon exiting the menu, gets the claymore attack animation. What's odd about that is Curry didn't even hover over the claymore and hadn't used it anyway, but apparently the game's memory may have to cycle from "spear" to "kick" and was caught in-between switching when he pressed the attack button. This could make for some weird/interesting situations, lol. Probably harmless if it stays there, but it does look weird.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 27, 2017 9:41:59 GMT -6
Something new that I noticed in the latest gameplay that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that occasionally, little sacks/bags will drop from enemies that have items in them. The menu graphic for the item will pop out, rise slowly and disintegrate. Can't tell if there is a sound effect for collecting it, but hopefully:
Curry ends up with two pair of Kung-fu Shoes because of this. So, there we have it - weapons CAN drop from enemies and will, with a new little bag graphic. I liked the old days where the items just popped out of the enemy, but I think I'm fine with this too. I can't tell if/how Miriam needs to interact with the item to get it, but I'd think so. Has anyone seen any other drops like this? I can't say for certain I have or haven't, but seeing the concept in-game was certainly new to me.
Further, the chests...we've discussed this a bit elsewhere, but the game seems to be following the OoE method of having all guaranteed exploration items found in chests, and perhaps even randomized ones? We don't know, but the point I'd like to make is that I really enjoyed seeing the graphic for the item itself when I walked into the area it was in. Perhaps a sword on a pedestal, sitting upright with its flashing sprite, added more excitement to the sense of discovery than (always) chests. Similarly, we saw a destructible wall that had a chest behind it, but that doesn't carry the same feeling as breaking that wall to see the item itself laying there - some , a new weapon, etc. It may not make as much real sense, but the game-y-ness of it ties into much of what I love Igavania tends to capture.
Also, perhaps if there's going to be a lot of chests, maybe they could tie into the gameplay somehow. In Valkyrie Profile for instance, chests could be used as platforms, carried, thrown, and broken if the player wasn't careful (same for valk's crystals!). It may be interesting if for example: you leave a chest closed instead of opening it at first sight, because upon examining the platforming of the room closer, you can jump atop the closed chest to reach a higher ledge that has another treasure. If you open that chest now, you miss out on whatever that item/area is until you get later game traversal abilities (double jump, flight, etc). They could also be used in puzzles, to activate switches, traps, other things...maybe even...mimics?
About the bug thing, though:
Quite oddly, Miriam goes from having the spear equipped to selecting the shoes, but upon exiting the menu, gets the claymore attack animation. What's odd about that is Curry didn't even hover over the claymore and hadn't used it anyway, but apparently the game's memory may have to cycle from "spear" to "kick" and was caught in-between switching when he pressed the attack button. This could make for some weird/interesting situations, lol. Probably harmless if it stays there, but it does look weird.
Preaching to the choir my friend. It was one of my nitpicks as well. Frankly I'm not a fan of the chests at all but it is what it is and they're in. I agree seeing the weapon or item was kinda cool and made it exciting. I also liked the variety of things you'd see the item on/in. Whether it be the orb you break and liquid pours out, or it's on some sorta pedestal. Variety is the spice of life but yo know me...SOTN is my favorite so that last comment is self-explanatory as to why I love it. As far as the bag dropping from enemies. I did notice that but I didn't realize a weapon came out of the bag. I think at first I thought it was a big money bag or something. Glad to see weapon drops are a thing, I just hope UNIQUE weapons can be dropped from special enemies. ( Think Medusa shield with Medusas ) I feel like the DS games moved away from having really unique enemy weapon drops, and instead focused on them being found. ( correct me if i'm wrong) I also loved the wall breaking ( especially how it slowly breaks apart ) but yeah it's a bit weird to see a chest in it. I just hope some of the breakable walls will lead to secret areas not just a broken wall with an item right there. |
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Post by estebant on Jun 27, 2017 10:14:48 GMT -6
I'm fine with chests. In Order of Ecclesia chests would re-fill when you left the area. I can't imagine how you would make multiple drops from one location without chests.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 27, 2017 10:15:35 GMT -6
Oh, absolutely, miketendo mentioned the "new area" breakable path in BCB 15. What he was describing sounded exactly like the part of Olrox's quarters where you take down a wall and there's a pretty long hallway with enemies and items in it. I'd really like to see that taken further, though, and have areas like (Dark Souls spoilers): The Great Hollow and Ash Lake, which are two entire levels hidden behind two fake walls.
The orb breaking you mentioned is another great quality of SotN, and that was common in the alchemy lab - and we've having an alchemy game here, so maybe something like those green fluid breakable orbs and vials can come back? lol.
Also, of course I agree on the uniqueness of weapon drops. I'm more interested in that than just about anything - the weapon variety and discovery of them.
...and of course S P E C I A L - A T T A C K S |
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Post by Everett Spair on Jun 27, 2017 10:29:19 GMT -6
The orb breaking you mentioned is another great quality of SotN, and that was common in the alchemy lab - and we've having an alchemy game here, so maybe something like those green fluid breakable orbs and vials can come back? lol. YES! I would be super happy if there were things like vials and beakers with weird, dangerous and cool stuff in them that you can break and have it spill on the floor. I loved those things in SotN! |
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 27, 2017 10:50:21 GMT -6
Oh, absolutely, miketendo mentioned the "new area" breakable path in BCB 15. What he was describing sounded exactly like the part of Olrox's quarters where you take down a wall and there's a pretty long hallway with enemies and items in it. I'd really like to see that taken further, though, and have areas like (Dark Souls spoilers): The Great Hollow and Ash Lake, which are two entire levels hidden behind two fake walls.
The orb breaking you mentioned is another great quality of SotN, and that was common in the alchemy lab - and we've having an alchemy game here, so maybe something like those green fluid breakable orbs and vials can come back? lol.
Also, of course I agree on the uniqueness of weapon drops. I'm more interested in that than just about anything - the weapon variety and discovery of them.
...and of course S P E C I A L - A T T A C K S Yup, honestly surprised there isn't MORE of that in IGA games. Seems like a genuinely good idea..... imagine hitting a wall and finding an optional but totally brand new location....with a secret boss, with cool equipment to be found. Stuff like that makes exploration more enjoyable. Imagine you beat the game and someone talks about a boss you never fought, what would you do? HOLY CRAP I NEED TO PLAY IT AGAIN!!!!...More of this please. |
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Post by DSLevantine on Jun 28, 2017 4:01:26 GMT -6
While I love Valkyrie Profile 1 and beat the game many times, I think use crystal and chest as platform does not fit well in bloodstained.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 28, 2017 7:53:53 GMT -6
I notice both things purifyweirdshard mentioned. I think i commented on them too before. About the Great Sword (also called double-handed sword) animation, i'm pretty sure that is a bug they are going to fix later on. But it is good to point that up. About the whole bag / item thingy, i noticed that too. Basically, enemies drops bags and when you pick that bag, the item icon that usually shows up in the menu, shows up and disappears to show what was inside the bag. I think they are doing that for resource-saving purposes. Same thing with chests. If we take a closer look, the flowers that restore MP, that were 2d before, now are 3d. Since the game is 3d and was greatly optimized graphically, it would look weird to put 2d items all around. All items that they intend to put around the game to be picked, would need to have a specific 3d model just for that. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. They should. It would be nice, along with the alternative ways to pick up and find items, as some others mentioned, like breaking vials and stuff like that. Again, as i said, all that requires resources. At the SOTN era, it was much easier to just pick and edit sprites for all that, but nowadays, that would require a ton of 3d model items just for some seconds of enjoyement from seeing the item and picking it up. Using bags and chests requires just two 3d models. Maybe they will built few 3d models for some items, but not for the majority of them. The reasoning the dev team could be "It is worth to build 50+ 3d models for pick-up items that 80% of players will see for seconds before picking up? We could use that time and effort to polish 25+ enemies". I agree with all of you that it would be MUCH better if the items were like they was before, but i believe that is for resource-saving purposes. Unfortunately. |
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 28, 2017 9:53:04 GMT -6
I notice both things purifyweirdshard mentioned. I think i commented on them too before. About the Great Sword (also called double-handed sword) animation, i'm pretty sure that is a bug they are going to fix later on. But it is good to point that up. About the whole bag / item thingy, i noticed that too. Basically, enemies drops bags and when you pick that bag, the item icon that usually shows up in the menu, shows up and disappears to show what was inside the bag. I think they are doing that for resource-saving purposes. Same thing with chests. If we take a closer look, the flowers that restore MP, that were 2d before, now are 3d. Since the game is 3d and was greatly optimized graphically, it would look weird to put 2d items all around. All items that they intend to put around the game to be picked, would need to have a specific 3d model just for that. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. They should. It would be nice, along with the alternative ways to pick up and find items, as some others mentioned, like breaking vials and stuff like that. Again, as i said, all that requires resources. At the SOTN era, it was much easier to just pick and edit sprites for all that, but nowadays, that would require a ton of 3d model items just for some seconds of enjoyement from seeing the item and picking it up. Using bags and chests requires just two 3d models. Maybe they will built few 3d models for some items, but not for the majority of them. The reasoning the dev team could be "It is worth to build 50+ 3d models for pick-up items that 80% of players will see for seconds before picking up? We could use that time and effort to polish 25+ enemies". I agree with all of you that it would be MUCH better if the items were like they was before, but i believe that is for resource-saving purposes. Unfortunately. I don't think it's even necessary to make 50+ 3d models for pick up items. I think there could be 3d models for specific things - A sword model for a weapon find A potion for a healing/ailment treatment A Shield for protection things... It doesn't need to be incredibly deep just the essential things and then the name pops up when you pick it up. Any variety is good variety, you don't need the complete vastness but the subtle detail changes matter. Like, there's nothing wrong with chests being in the game but some items being on a pedestal, or in certain locations there's vials you break for something special. A good example is the wall break seen in the IGN footage. There's variety right there but they put a chest in a wall so it feels kinda awkward. It'd be like a weapon being on a pedestal but they have a chest on that pedestal. I want to be clear these are nitpicks, if they didn't change this or if they didn't add more variety in this way I wouldn't be bummed out. Still worth mentioning though! |
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 28, 2017 12:18:05 GMT -6
So rush through things -> Destroys chest -> Destroys good item -> Frustration -> Must grind to get that item -> Speedrunners no longer united.
Using crates to jump on is a thing, and those can be destroyed to reveal loot. Thats in the E3 2016 Demo.
Nice to see bag of item. Hopefully items will be in this one too when it comes to crafting. And with crafting, break down any duplicates we found on our way, like those kung fu shoes.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 28, 2017 14:05:33 GMT -6
I think it's actually super annoying that you don't get to see what's dropped till you pick it up.
Imagine grinding for the crissaegrim, leaving and reentering the room to kill Schmoos, but this time you can't leave the moment you see they didn't drop a Crissaegrim: you have to walk over and pick up whatever item it was instead to find out. The less that makes grinding a chore, the better.
I'm in full agreement that I much prefer to see the actual item as opposed to a chest. And to be honest, I'd rather the items to be 2D instead of 3D anyway. It's honestly the best way to make the item stick out from its surroundings and entice you to pick it up. And as others have mentioned here, having the item icons instead of chests allows you to put them in creative locations.
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 28, 2017 14:26:03 GMT -6
I think it's actually super annoying that you don't get to see what's dropped till you pick it up. Imagine grinding for the crissaegrim, leaving and reentering the room to kill Schmoos, but this time you can't leave the moment you see they didn't drop a Crissaegrim: you have to walk over and pick up whatever item it was instead to find out. The less that makes grinding a chore, the better. I'm in full agreement that I much prefer to see the actual item as opposed to a chest. And to be honest, I'd rather the items to be 2D instead of 3D anyway. It's honestly the best way to make the item stick out from its surroundings and entice you to pick it up. And as others have mentioned here, having the item icons instead of chests allows you to put them in creative locations. I would to believe the bags are for crafting materials and potions. Like a bag of alchemy, not weapons. Feedback:
I think I would enjoy seeing the weapon instead of a bag too, but using the bag as one out of x things.
A. Crafting material A
B. Crafting material B
C. Other
Other = depending on enemy you can get small or big potion, small or big ether, gold, food etc. |
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 28, 2017 15:22:11 GMT -6
I would to believe the bags are for crafting materials and potions. Like a bag of alchemy, not weapons. As OP mentions, the video shows her getting Kung Fu Shoes in a bag. That's a weapon. It would appear all item drops are as bags, not just materials/consumables. |
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Post by estebant on Jun 28, 2017 15:39:54 GMT -6
I think it's actually super annoying that you don't get to see what's dropped till you pick it up. Imagine grinding for the crissaegrim, leaving and reentering the room to kill Schmoos, but this time you can't leave the moment you see they didn't drop a Crissaegrim: you have to walk over and pick up whatever item it was instead to find out. The less that makes grinding a chore, the better. I'm in full agreement that I much prefer to see the actual item as opposed to a chest. And to be honest, I'd rather the items to be 2D instead of 3D anyway. It's honestly the best way to make the item stick out from its surroundings and entice you to pick it up. And as others have mentioned here, having the item icons instead of chests allows you to put them in creative locations. But they can only drop once that way. That becomes a problem whenever you need randomized multiple drops for quests. Also keep in mind in Order of Ecclesia stuff could still be found without a chest like Sage in Misty Forest Road. Stuff could drop from breakable walls like those elemental candies. Just because the demo shows chests doesn't mean thats exclusively what we're getting. |
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 28, 2017 15:59:55 GMT -6
I would to believe the bags are for crafting materials and potions. Like a bag of alchemy, not weapons. As OP mentions, the video shows her getting Kung Fu Shoes in a bag. That's a weapon. It would appear all item drops are as bags, not just materials/consumables. Mm yes. But I think it's a [ph] on that one  Placeholder, like how they did with the shard pillars. Just for show. |
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 29, 2017 2:41:56 GMT -6
As OP mentions, the video shows her getting Kung Fu Shoes in a bag. That's a weapon. It would appear all item drops are as bags, not just materials/consumables. Mm yes. But I think it's a [ph] on that one Placeholder, like how they did with the shard pillars. Just for show. Until they say so, we can't assume that. We only have what we're given and statements made to work off of. If we're giving feedback, we need to give feedback on what we have, not on what we speculate might possibly be the way it will change. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 29, 2017 8:31:33 GMT -6
I doubt that's a placeholder, they could have easily placed any other item in that bag. The only scenario that's likely is if the bags are indeed for crafting materials, but they hadn't added those as an item category to the game yet...which seems odd to have already implemented it as a drop system to begin with then. Who knows.
Regarding multiple randomized drops to complete quests, that's a good point, but only if quests are done just like they are in OoE. We may not have/need that to be a thing, and besides, I'm fine with chests in a general sense, just not for everything. One of my main points in this topic was to say I was happy that I saw the bag drop, so it meant that we could get items/weapons in ways other than just chests. Seeing a rare weapon come from an enemy is great. Rare crafting items (if that's how crafting works) would be almost just as cool.
Regarding crafting though, like I mentioned in BCB 14, I suspect it will be more like Dawn of Sorrow's system with Dominique performing what Yoko used to do. The crafting materials will involve physical materials I think, but likely (and mainly) shards as well if they follow that formula.
edit: Oh, and yeah, I'm totally fine with seeing 2D icons to pick up. That's already what appears when you open a bag (Kung-fu Shoes' menu icon). Not all that much of a jump for it to be placed on the screen by itself. |
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Post by Lestaroth on Jun 29, 2017 16:48:24 GMT -6
When it comes to items, I'd want them to be found in the most varied ways possible.
Some would be on the floor, others in treasure chests or bags (with them being visible Order of Ecclesia-style), some dropping from defeated monsters, some you need to break items for, some you just loot from (like static armors)...
For quests, I'd rather have tiers of them (all available from the start, as long as one is not a prerequisite of another) meaning that at one point you can be able to finish a higher-level one then later on an easier one just because you didn't feel like farming back then.
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 29, 2017 17:25:37 GMT -6
Mm yes. But I think it's a [ph] on that one Placeholder, like how they did with the shard pillars. Just for show. Until they say so, we can't assume that. We only have what we're given and statements made to work off of. If we're giving feedback, we need to give feedback on what we have, not on what we speculate might possibly be the way it will change. I tweeted a question for #askcurry today about it, kind of.  |
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, a new weapon, etc. It may not make as much real sense, but the game-y-ness of it ties into much of what I love Igavania tends to capture.
Placeholder, like how they did with the shard pillars. Just for show. 
