djtanng
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Post by djtanng on Jun 23, 2017 21:37:48 GMT -6
Just a thought that came to me at random. Most games don't have button mapping, but I hope this one does. I'm sure I'm just over thinking things, but maybe the devs will see this and say, "oh yea, lets get Fred to add button mapping while he waits for us to finish those Clock Tower gears.
EDIT: Another thought that came to mind that's sort of related to the above, is the option to invert the up and down for any features that might use them, like a 3d map feature or having to aim a canon in a boss fight or something. Just a thought.
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Busterific
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Post by Busterific on Jun 24, 2017 13:27:57 GMT -6
This would be a nice addition. I find it odd that more console games don't do this.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Jun 24, 2017 13:50:31 GMT -6
This would be a nice addition. I find it odd that more console games don't do this. For many games, this can be time consuming to execute as all on screen button prompts would have change dynamically. It's possible and there are definitely games out there that do this (ps2 Castlevanias being one example) but it can be more work than one would imagine.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 24, 2017 13:55:21 GMT -6
This would be a nice addition. I find it odd that more console games don't do this. Should be LAW to change into whatever button you want whatever action to be. Stupid Flanders...
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fatihG
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Post by fatihG on Jun 25, 2017 0:38:11 GMT -6
AFAIK all Igavanias have button mapping.
The only thing we probably wont be able to map is the directional shard.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 25, 2017 1:37:01 GMT -6
For many games, this can be time consuming to execute as all on screen button prompts would have change dynamically. What? That's actually surprisingly simple. Compared to the work required for other mechanics, super simple. It could work a little like: You just make strings (labels) for all the buttons. A button would be "A". Right Trigger would be "RT". Then you make variables for the buttons each action is assigned to. var jumpbutton = "A" var attackbutton = "X" ..etc
Then when the player changes it in the options, it changes those variables. Then when you create the procedure that handles the button prompt, it references that variable. jumpButtonPrompt(); if(jumpbutton == "A") img = A.png if(jumpbutton == "X") img = X.png
It's tedious, sure. But it's not even a day's work. An hour or two, tops. And that's an extremely rudimentary way of pulling it off with my limited scripting knowledge— I know there's other features like arrays and switch functions that can pull the above off faster, cleaner, and easier. Not to sound like a know it all, but there really is no excuse for designers to leave out this feature. Its implementation is pretty easy.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Jun 25, 2017 4:16:53 GMT -6
For many games, this can be time consuming to execute as all on screen button prompts would have change dynamically. What? That's actually surprisingly simple. Compared to the work required for other mechanics, super simple. It could work a little like: You just make strings (labels) for all the buttons. A button would be "A". Right Trigger would be "RT". Then you make variables for the buttons each action is assigned to. var jumpbutton = "A" var attackbutton = "X" ..etc
Then when the player changes it in the options, it changes those variables. Then when you create the procedure that handles the button prompt, it references that variable. jumpButtonPrompt(); if(jumpbutton == "A") img = A.png if(jumpbutton == "X") img = X.png
It's tedious, sure. But it's not even a day's work. An hour or two, tops. And that's an extremely rudimentary way of pulling it off with my limited scripting knowledge— I know there's other features like arrays and switch functions that can pull the above off faster, cleaner, and easier. Not to sound like a know it all, but there really is no excuse for designers to leave out this feature. Its implementation is pretty easy. Yeah no, as I said it's definitely possible but it's a feature that has to be maintained throughout all of your game so you have to put a proper system in place for it to always work correctly. I think it can be easy if the game is not too large but otherwise this may come round as something that takes more work than one would think. They should have it, I'm all for customization. I just believe that this is the reason why many design teams choose not to have it. That you have to come up with a system to make something that the designer of the button layout themself will probably think of as rather unneccesary. It's not like it could really bite you in the ass but I think many people may just not think of pouring ressources into it. In the end though, I think that people here are correct, this is one thing that UX designers exist for. I think I made it sound like I was advocating against it. I just believe that this is the reason why it's sometimes left out. For example, I contributed to a game in which you play against a friend on one screen. Developing a System for this without the tutorial becoming too confusing (having more than one image for each button prompt maybe with a different colour or something?) would have been kind of a pain. Players might as well just learn the control scheme that we came up with. I'm pretty sure that I couldn't have convinced anyone in the team that making such a system along with a dedicated control-changing-menu working with our slightly complicated input manager would have been worth anyone's time more than any of the other hundreds of tasks that we worked on under a strict deadline. However, if they put in a system like this, it's probably best to do it as early as possible so I hope that they already have something in place. Especially since it would be kind of time consuming to create if UI and all that jazz are already established.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 25, 2017 14:26:33 GMT -6
Doing it in a local multiplayer situation (when there isn't a clear P1 and P2 side of the screen) can be complicated, but it's clearly not a situation Bloodstained would be tackling here.
In a single player experience, it's a pretty easy to handle, especially if they're following DRY code philosophy like they should be. Handling button prompts through procedures that you can make minor edits to when the situation arises simplifies the system quite a bit. Then you just go back and call that procedure and have it look up the player's settings when it needs to.
Yes, it's a whole lot better to start this system early than to go back and change all of your instances already layed out (though I'm not too sure how many button prompts Bloodstained will have outside of a tutorial regardless. Maybe in the command skill menu?), but this is something that should really be considered by all developers when starting a game project with the exception of unique circumstances. (Like, for example, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons's control scheme is imperative to how the game delivers its narrative. I can't see that game being handled in any other way.)
Moreover, for there's always the slightly lazier method some games use (or at least, easier. Can't really call it lazy without knowing the circumstances behind the scenes), where they simply write something like "Press the Attack Button (Default: X)" In which case if the player never changed their controls, they now know to press the X button. And if they have changed the controls, then they should know better than anyone what the Attack button is.
Becomes a little trickier regarding things like overhead prompts, but you can viably use symbols that represent the commands as opposed to literal buttons on the controller.
To be fair, I'm sure this is all a lot easier when talking about a controller than say, keyboard controls though. But at the same time, I'd argue keyboard controls are the most important to allow reconfiguration for as well, because they're darn near impossible to fit to everyone's tastes.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Jun 25, 2017 15:22:35 GMT -6
Doing it in a local multiplayer situation (when there isn't a clear P1 and P2 side of the screen) can be complicated, but it's clearly not a situation Bloodstained would be tackling here. In a single player experience, it's a pretty easy to handle, especially if they're following DRY code philosophy like they should be. Handling button prompts through procedures that you can make minor edits to when the situation arises simplifies the system quite a bit. Then you just go back and call that procedure and have it look up the player's settings when it needs to. Yes, it's a whole lot better to start this system early than to go back and change all of your instances already layed out (though I'm not too sure how many button prompts Bloodstained will have outside of a tutorial regardless. Maybe in the command skill menu?), but this is something that should really be considered by all developers when starting a game project with the exception of unique circumstances. (Like, for example, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons's control scheme is imperative to how the game delivers its narrative. I can't see that game being handled in any other way.) Moreover, for there's always the slightly lazier method some games use (or at least, easier. Can't really call it lazy without knowing the circumstances behind the scenes), where they simply write something like "Press the Attack Button (Default: X)" In which case if the player never changed their controls, they now know to press the X button. And if they have changed the controls, then they should know better than anyone what the Attack button is. Becomes a little trickier regarding things like overhead prompts, but you can viably use symbols that represent the commands as opposed to literal buttons on the controller. To be fair, I'm sure this is all a lot easier when talking about a controller than say, keyboard controls though. But at the same time, I'd argue keyboard controls are the most important to allow reconfiguration for as well, because they're darn near impossible to fit to everyone's tastes. Thanks for this comprehensive reply. Again, I was not stating any reasons why Bloodstained (or most games for that matter) should disregard remapping. Just trying to come up with reasons why quite some titles out there do (these might not always be good or sensible reasons). I think that another reason may be that not many games have yet widely been praised for their "amazing remappable button features" so for many devs, coming up with these systems early enough may slip through the cracks. And so, situations might come up where entire sheets of combo chains might be statically baked onto an image because it was comfortable at the time etc.. Being someone with the QWERTZ keyboard setup (as opposed to QWERTY) I can very much relate to your point about the neccesity of keyboard reconfiguration. Games that inevitably use the y key can be a bit of a pain (especially before I figured out how to change the keyboard layout).
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 25, 2017 17:16:26 GMT -6
Thanks for this comprehensive reply. Again, I was not stating any reasons why Bloodstained (or most games for that matter) should disregard remapping. Just trying to come up with reasons why quite some titles out there do (these might not always be good or sensible reasons). I think that another reason may be that not many games have yet widely been praised for their "amazing remappable button features" so for many devs, coming up with these systems early enough may slip through the cracks. And so, situations might come up where entire sheets of combo chains might be statically baked onto an image because it was comfortable at the time etc.. Being someone with the QWERTZ keyboard setup (as opposed to QWERTY) I can very much relate to your point about the neccesity of keyboard reconfiguration. Games that inevitably use the y key can be a bit of a pain (especially before I figured out how to change the keyboard layout). Fair enough lol. And I never actually saw a QWERTZ keyboard before until I looked it up just now. It's odd that it's basically the same thing but with Y and Z swapped. Wonder why that's a thing.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Jun 25, 2017 17:35:16 GMT -6
Thanks for this comprehensive reply. Again, I was not stating any reasons why Bloodstained (or most games for that matter) should disregard remapping. Just trying to come up with reasons why quite some titles out there do (these might not always be good or sensible reasons). I think that another reason may be that not many games have yet widely been praised for their "amazing remappable button features" so for many devs, coming up with these systems early enough may slip through the cracks. And so, situations might come up where entire sheets of combo chains might be statically baked onto an image because it was comfortable at the time etc.. Being someone with the QWERTZ keyboard setup (as opposed to QWERTY) I can very much relate to your point about the neccesity of keyboard reconfiguration. Games that inevitably use the y key can be a bit of a pain (especially before I figured out how to change the keyboard layout). Fair enough lol. And I never actually saw a QWERTZ keyboard before until I looked it up just now. It's odd that it's basically the same thing but with Y and Z swapped. Wonder why that's a thing. It's a German layout containing öäü to the right and having symbol swapped around. Y and Z are swapped because Y is barely used in German while Z is rather common, especially in combination with the letters T and U as in the often used "tz" or the word and prefix "zu".
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