Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 10, 2017 17:08:36 GMT -6
Many people probably noticed that, at E3 Demo, the enemies are giving out their shards...quite easily. At the first Demo from 2016, the drop rate was noticeable lower than that. (Amy, by the way, has 1% drop rate for it's Shard, according to some information). But at the 2017 E3 Demo, several enemies give out their shards after two or three kills. Considering Aria/Dawn of Sorrow, the main game that inspired the Shard system, they had different drop rates for some souls, and the same is probably going to be applied for Bloodstained. Also, maybe the drop rate is higher because it is a demo and they want to showcase them. IGA already said in interviews, that Bloodstained will have a overall higher drop rate than some of his other games, due to the necessity of droping forging material and shards. Considering all that, what do you think about the Shards drop rate? vote up there, Comment down here.
EDIT (06/14/2017) to add percentage brainstorm information. Using Dawn of Sorrow as a base, Dawn of Sorrow had levels of rarity, but that doesn't matter. Each level had several drop rates inside it. All in all, the game used these numbers for Souls Drop rate: 1% , 2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10%, 12%, 14%, 16%, 24%, 32%, 100% (100% for bosses and one special secret enemy only). So, considering that, we can create a made-up rule of going from 1% to 40% (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10...) AND 100% (for bosses). Since IGA said that bloodstained will have a higher drop rate than normal, that's why i made that reaching until 40%. So, i consider that they would use most ranges at any option. You always have that hard and that easy power to get. But, i said "overall", as a way to ask what would you think MOST shards drop rate could be. Something like, at least more than half of shards (not ALL of them). So, it would be something like that: OVERALL LOW: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 1% to 8%LOW / MID: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 10% to 16%OVERALL MID: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 18% to 24%MID / HIGH: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 26% to 32%OVERALL HIGH: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 34% to 40% Consider all that as a huge brainstorming of mine, based on Dawn of Sorrow Soul Drop Rate.
Also, check Enkeria thread and poll about Miriam scream after getting a shard HERE
That's all folks! |
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 10, 2017 17:24:59 GMT -6
As low as it can get without feeling like you "need" one to get pass something, like a key to a door or something. Sure we have a cannon that needs fire, and that would be a welcome edition to "guide the player". But meeting a boss and so on should be a random challenge. Once you know the patterns, they can be killed either way, without shards. Then again, if you want to grind -or- found a really good shard, the battle could be easier won for sure.
I know Mana spoke of grinding in the podcast (need to search for it if nobody else links it before me, if needed) that they do not want people to grind too much. So this is really a balance.
I guess, the most important shards would be the white ones, also known as passive shards, like double jump, dive kick, float / fly a bit slower and so on, those would be 100% there for us, while the rest could be connected to how hard you set the difficulty in the first place. Droprates according to difficulty in other games (Diablo III comes in mind) lets the player have a bunch of higher settings that allows bonus-droprate above the average, but the enemies and challenges are harder.
And cheers for the poll-link.
I vote on Overall low, if it will be low at normal difficulty.
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akuwa
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Post by akuwa on Jun 10, 2017 17:25:12 GMT -6
shards being rare is a good thing. you don't need them all, and if you care enough for a specific mobs shard you can always just farm that mob for awhile. anyone can get lucky spurts on a specific mob every now and then, you don't need the materials to craft the best weapons any time a new mob pops up, even the 2016 demo had too high of a drop rate in my opinion.
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Post by seraph on Jun 10, 2017 23:09:36 GMT -6
It will probably be monster and quality dependent like it was in Aria/Dawn of sorrow. Like, a "low tier" shard, like a bone throw will be easy to drop while a "high tier" shard like say, a triple fireball won't. On the same vein, enchants are passive buffs so of course the "STR+20" should have much lower droprate than the "STR+4" shard.
I'm not worried about it tho, i always wear luck boosting equipment for drops (and challenge) and i'm sure at least one shopkeeper will sell that one ridiculosly expensive ring that doubles drop rate.
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Post by Goobsausage on Jun 10, 2017 23:31:19 GMT -6
I voted for overall high because I don't like grinding and feel high/frequent drop rates are respectful of my time.
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Post by DSLevantine on Jun 11, 2017 2:28:26 GMT -6
overall high. I always grind till i get the soul/glyph before i move to next area anyway, overall high can cut down the tedious progress or i have to use auto hotkey to counter it.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 11, 2017 2:28:31 GMT -6
Aria/Dawn of Sorrow had a interesting system (i read about it once). Dawn of Sorrow, specifically, had a rarity system. Each soul had a rarity level (from zero to 3, represented by stars) with several drop rates inside each rarity level. Overall, the drop rate for common enemies was between 1% (highest rarity) to 32% (lowest rarity). Bosses had 100%, after all, each boss from Dawn of Sorrow was unique, so, you had only one chance to get it's soul, it would be unfair if the drop rate wasn't 100%. A specific hidden enemy (that requires a specific pattern to find out) also was 100%. Aria of Sorrow had a specific Boss (Legion) that was unique on that regard. If you killed him without destroying all it's body parts, it's soul drop rate turned into 0%. But if you killed it by destroying all it's body parts, it's drop rate automatically changed to 100%. Luck stat had the effect to increase overall drop rate, including souls, by a very minimal degree (by decimals, going from 0.01% to around 3.00% at Luck 99, with some variation depending on the enemy). The Soul Eater Ring (the most expensive item of the whole game, with a 300.000 cost) had the effect to double all soul drop chance, after luck calculation, alongside adding up to Luck. So, considering all that, i think it is safe to say that Bloodstained will follow the same route. Several drop rates distributed among enemies, with bosses having 100% (unless it is a boss that you can fight later on as a enemy) and maybe some special bosses or enemies, only dropping their shard if something specific is made (like Legion example above). Even so, nothing of that answers how the overall drop rate will be, and that's why i made up this thread  . |
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Post by spideryfingers on Jun 11, 2017 4:42:21 GMT -6
I voted for 'Overall low'.
This is because it has a "Treat them mean, keep them keen" appeal to me and seems more rewarding when you do get a shard. I feel that if one obtains all the shards too soon, then it may make the thrill of the hunt a touch stale.
On the contrary, I understand how frustrating it can be when you're denied something that takes an eternity to drop. I remember swatting the Kyoma Demon countless times in Aria of Sorrow to the point where, every time I walked past the mirror to make a hit, I had visions of Robert De Niro saying "You talkin' to me?".
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fatihG
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Post by fatihG on Jun 11, 2017 6:22:10 GMT -6
I feel the harder something is to get the more you will appreciate it.
If drop rate is super high, they might as well just hand you new items/shard when you walk into a new room.
Or even better... have the enemies give you a 'nice to meet you' gift when you first encounter them. =P
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 11, 2017 6:40:04 GMT -6
I feel the harder something is to get the more you will appreciate it. If drop rate is super high, they might as well just hand you new items/shard when you walk into a new room. Or even better... have the enemies give you a 'nice to meet you' gift when you first encounter them. =P Introduce cheatcodes so people start with everything off the bat (Dracula pun). The grind is hard to some and not fun, but how about just buy some skills after x amount of exploration is done to unlock it at the shop? Or just give us the option to save the shards and make us play the game many times before obtaining "everything". |
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Post by freddythemonkey on Jun 11, 2017 8:58:45 GMT -6
Overall low, but more specifically I think the rarity system from Dawn of Sorrow worked quite well.
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Post by DSLevantine on Jun 11, 2017 10:35:33 GMT -6
I feel the harder something is to get the more you will appreciate it. If drop rate is super high, they might as well just hand you new items/shard when you walk into a new room. Or even better... have the enemies give you a 'nice to meet you' gift when you first encounter them. =P Sorry but I don't share the feeling. If the drop rate is super low <0.00001% then you won't get any shard unless you grind for days. Why create shard if you have snowball's chance in hell to get one? Or even better, remove them from game entirely to speed up the development. So, please don't take it to the extreme. |
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 11, 2017 12:29:19 GMT -6
I feel the harder something is to get the more you will appreciate it. If drop rate is super high, they might as well just hand you new items/shard when you walk into a new room. Or even better... have the enemies give you a 'nice to meet you' gift when you first encounter them. =P Sorry but I don't share the feeling. If the drop rate is super low <0.00001% then you won't get any shard unless you grind for days. Why create shard if you have snowball's chance in hell to get one? Or even better, remove them from game entirely to speed up the development. So, please don't take it to the extreme. How about getting it someday after x replays? Or buying it for all gold ingame? Or get it after beating the game or a specific boss? Or doing a quest where you can choose between 3 different ones as a reward? 1% is rare and what would be "super rare", not 0,000... something. |
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Post by DSLevantine on Jun 11, 2017 23:44:36 GMT -6
Sorry but I don't share the feeling. If the drop rate is super low <0.00001% then you won't get any shard unless you grind for days. Why create shard if you have snowball's chance in hell to get one? Or even better, remove them from game entirely to speed up the development. So, please don't take it to the extreme. How about getting it someday after x replays? Or buying it for all gold ingame? Or get it after beating the game or a specific boss? Or doing a quest where you can choose between 3 different ones as a reward? 1% is rare and what would be "super rare", not 0,000... something. I am not a fan of getting something after x replay. Unlocked something in second play through is acceptable though. Buy it with your gold is fine but I hope the dev do not lower the drop rate of shards just to balance it out when we are given this option. I think this is a very interesting idea, or should we have a monster kill count? the more you kill the higher drop rate. How about collecting shard fragments and then fuse the fragments into a complete shard? Bosses always drop their soul(AOS), I guess bloodstained has the same setting. Choose between 3 different ones will definitely hurt me as a perfectionist, It means we will miss out the other two shards no matter what. |
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 12, 2017 6:00:13 GMT -6
How about getting it someday after x replays? Or buying it for all gold ingame? Or get it after beating the game or a specific boss? Or doing a quest where you can choose between 3 different ones as a reward? 1% is rare and what would be "super rare", not 0,000... something. I am not a fan of getting something after x replay. Unlocked something in second play through is acceptable though. Buy it with your gold is fine but I hope the dev do not lower the drop rate of shards just to balance it out when we are given this option. I think this is a very interesting idea, or should we have a monster kill count? the more you kill the higher drop rate. How about collecting shard fragments and then fuse the fragments into a complete shard? Bosses always drop their soul(AOS), I guess bloodstained has the same setting. Choose between 3 different ones will definitely hurt me as a perfectionist, It means we will miss out the other two shards no matter what. Since you can level up shards, and collect same ones more than one, perhaps they could be used as currency to get those you really want or need. I have no clue. They have been keeping the thought of "grinding" and collective shards under hush-hush for a while. I do not know how it would work. We do also have the crafting-system that combines elements to create new weapons and such. Not much going on that either. Much to look forward to! |
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Jun 14, 2017 19:00:40 GMT -6
Hello my friend, it sure has been a while.
Well, I'd say, overall low generally, with a higher rate for more basic shards given that you won't get too strong by gathering several of them.
Strong shards definitely should be rare and bosses should give shards automatically.
Low is fine, low to mid is fine (got to know what mid's value is, though). How many shards in total, how many truly give you an edge... There are still so many factors to discover.
Farewell for now~
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 14, 2017 19:32:29 GMT -6
Hello my friend, it sure has been a while. Well, I'd say, overall low generally, with a higher rate for more basic shards given that you won't get too strong by gathering several of them. Strong shards definitely should be rare and bosses should give shards automatically. Low is fine, low to mid is fine (got to know what mid's value is, though). How many shards in total, how many truly give you an edge... There are still so many factors to discover. Farewell for now~ Hello again Well, let me do a small percentage thingy here to clarify this poll a bit more. Using Dawn of Sorrow as a base, Dawn of Sorrow had levels of rarity, but that doesn't matter. Each level had several drop rates inside it. All in all, the game used these numbers for Souls Drop rate: 1% , 2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10%, 12%, 14%, 16%, 24%, 32%, 100% (100% for bosses and one special secret enemy only). So, considering that, we can create a made-up rule of going from 1% to 40% (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10...) AND 100% (for bosses). Since IGA said that bloodstained will have a higher drop rate than normal, that's why i made that reaching until 40%. So, i consider that they would use most ranges at any option. You always have that hard and that easy power to get. But, i said "overall", as a way to ask what would you think MOST shards drop rate could be. Something like, at least more than half of shards (not ALL of them). So, it would be something like that: OVERALL LOW: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 1% to 8%LOW / MID: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 10% to 16%OVERALL MID: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 18% to 24%MID / HIGH: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 26% to 32%OVERALL HIGH: more than half of shards having a drop rate around 34% to 40% I think this is a better way to explain what i meant, based on Dawn of Sorrow Soul Drop rate. Also, remembering that, like Dawn of Sorrow, it is most probably that Luck will increase drop rate (Dawn of Sorrow did that with a really small value, around +%0.01 to 3%, depending on the soul) and that we will have that uber-costly item that doubles drop rate of shards or something. Consider all that as a huge brainstorming of mine, based on Dawn of Sorrow Soul Drop Rate. I put that at the starting post as a reference. |
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jun 14, 2017 19:39:49 GMT -6
Yes, but you'll want them to drop more if it's gunna take 9 to make an ability it's strongest. (Assuming we're going by Dawn of Sorrow logic) I'd say mid.
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Post by chocolatestain on Jun 14, 2017 23:39:49 GMT -6
No preference. I'll just roll with whatever they decide, but I gotta say that drop rates for anything always seemed low to me across all previous Igavania games.
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