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Post by Pure Miriam on Feb 15, 2017 18:27:39 GMT -6
Same whip with different materials? We already have tons of information about many aspects of Bloodstained: Ritual of the night. There is one element, through, that we are really lacking info. The forging system. As far as we know, Bloodstained will have a forging system, where you will be able to forge equipment, weapons and armor. Kickstarter page says: " It's not an Igavania without leveling, and Bloodstained will be no exception. In addition to the classic elements everyone’s come to expect, enemies in Bloodstained will drop a wide variety of items, materials, and magi-crystals necessary to create the items that will get you safely through Gebel’s castle."And it also says: "Crafting: As you explore, fight enemies, and complete quests you will gain experience and become more powerful, acquiring a variety of weapons along the way. Enemies will also drop materials you can use to craft new weapons and abilities using Miriam's training in alchemy."Could the eye represent a Magi-Crystal? We don't know much about how the forging will work in the game. Considering that, I ASK:
1) HOW DO YOU WANT THE MATERIALS TO WORK?
Each equipment could be forged by a definite set of materials (for instance, three different materials). Or maybe, some equipments would require more types. And each material is required only one unit, or more than one? Equipment can be "broken" into materials to be reused in other equipments?
2) YOU WANT THE SHOP TO SELL MATERIALS, WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT?
This question was addressed in a old thread of mine, but it makes sense here, so, i'm repeating it. Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night relies a lot on enemy drop (shards and materials, equipments and such). Even so, do you think the shop could seel materials, weapons and equipment? only materials? only equipment? Or the shop must be restricted to only basic healing items?
3) WHAT ABOUT THE MAGI-CRYSTALS?
Magi-crystals are the name given to the crystals fused into Gebel and Miriam's body. And we know that enemies can also drop magi-crystals to be used for forging. So, how relevant magi-cyrstals are to forging? They add magic, or elements to the forged equipment? Or are just another piece of material with a cool name?
4) CRAFTING ONLY AT SPECIFIC AREAS OR ANYWHERE?
Forging can work anywhere? the game's menu has a option to forge things right away? Or you prefer for the forging to work only at designated areas (maybe a furnace, the shop, Johannes...)?
5) CONSUMABLE ITEMS BEING CRAFTED?
We already know that guns ammo will be crafted. You want the forging system to work only with equipment or you also want the ability to forge potions, other healing items (food? cooking?) and other types of consumables?
That's all folks!
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 15, 2017 19:42:05 GMT -6
Hello again. It's a fine thread, though this time, it may just be about pure speculation. I am quite certain the developers team about know what to do here.
1) I have quite the feeling that monsters, treasure chests and quests will give materials (quite a bunch of games already do it*). Shops most probably won't buy them, unless it is for a trifle amount of currency. There will be an upgrade system based on a weapon/armor and the materials for it... I think they'll be consumed and not able to be returned. For equipment to be returned to a former state? I don't believe so, unless materials are rare in nature (a risk of bottleneck exists then).
I just hope there won't be any costs for alchemy (it would be the case in MMOs).
2) Shops? The usual. Weapon, armor, remedies. Maybe common materials. Dust an Elysian Tale did it well. You collect materials from defeated monsters -maybe quests too-, the shops take what's new for a tad more than usual, then you can buy materials of that type after a while. (But again, where do they collect the extras?)
3) I thought that magi-crystals were linked to skills only, a bit like the soul system of the Sorrow entries.
4) Everywhere? Wouldn't that make things a tad too simple? I believe that dedicated areas for that would be great. Johannes being in charge could do.
5) Equipment only, I presume, but the idea of applying it to remedies is plausible, as long as it doesn't become a cheap tactic. Got to keep good, balanced challenge in mind.
*I shall provide examples if needed.
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Busterific
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Post by Busterific on Feb 15, 2017 19:55:10 GMT -6
In general I think it will be interesting to see what Iga and his team come up with, and don't have too much preference relating to the details of how it's going to end up working. The only thing I'd really not like is if they put timers on crafting like you see mainly in mobile apps and strategy sims. I don't think the waiting involved for that would be well suited to this type of game.
1) HOW DO YOU WANT THE MATERIALS TO WORK? Having a different amount of raw material required to craft different items seems like it would allow more options, but may require a way to find 'recipes' to make it useful without getting discouraged by the sheer volume of options that could potentially be available that wouldn't produce anything useful. If you kept it to a static amount of material where you're always combining 3 things it would encourage experimentation more. I don't really have a strong preference as far as the general mechanics go, but would probably lean towards the finding crafting recipes mechanic. I do like the idea of existing items being broken down into their components for re-use.
2) YOU WANT THE SHOP TO SELL MATERIALS, WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT? Yes. I'd say the shop only sells common materials, and you need to go out and find the more rare stuff. I'd think that weapons and equipment could potentially be crafted at a lower cost than buying the equipment if you can find the appropriate materials. There could potentially be different shops for different types of items as well.
4) CRAFTING ONLY AT SPECIFIC AREAS OR ANYWHERE? It makes sense to only be able to craft some items at specific locations based on the need for a forge, cauldron, etc. and would be my preference.
5) CONSUMABLE ITEMS BEING CRAFTED? Yes.
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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 15, 2017 20:04:19 GMT -6
In general I think it will be interesting to see what Iga and his team come up with, and don't have too much preference relating to the details of how it's going to end up working. The only thing I'd really not like is if they put timers on crafting like you see mainly in mobile apps and strategy sims. I don't think the waiting involved for that would be well suited to this type of game. 1) HOW DO YOU WANT THE MATERIALS TO WORK? Having a different amount of raw material required to craft different items seems like it would allow more options, but may require a way to find 'recipes' to make it useful without getting discouraged by the sheer volume of options that could potentially be available that wouldn't produce anything useful. If you kept it to a static amount of material where you're always combining 3 things it would encourage experimentation more. I don't really have a strong preference as far as the general mechanics go, but would probably lean towards the finding crafting recipes mechanic. I do like the idea of existing items being broken down into their components for re-use. 2) YOU WANT THE SHOP TO SELL MATERIALS, WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT? Yes. I'd say the shop only sells common materials, and you need to go out and find the more rare stuff. I'd think that weapons and equipment could potentially be crafted at a lower cost than buying the equipment if you can find the appropriate materials. There could potentially be different shops for different types of items as well. 4) CRAFTING ONLY AT SPECIFIC AREAS OR ANYWHERE? It makes sense to only be able to craft some items at specific locations based on the need for a forge, cauldron, etc. and would be my preference. 5) CONSUMABLE ITEMS BEING CRAFTED? Yes. Timers on crafting? That's terrible. That said, Bloodstained won't be a free to play game, so we are spared that, at least. Yes, recipes. I had forgotten about it. It would be a total waste of materials if one were to try every damn combination available (that said, the Monster Hunter series did it well. Only some items are highlighted (those open for combinations) and the same goes for the second item. To upgrade it further, you need to combine the result with another item, under the same rules... All of that got a success %, increasing with special, permanent books. Yes again. Tales of Vesperia just did that. You either buy the equipment at full price, or craft it for a lower one (basically gathered materials and a crafting fee). Many equipment pieces are craft-only, too (upgrading is the same). The rest is pretty straightforward. In sum, for Bloodstained... It's tough to be original. I don't think something absolutely new can emerge from here.
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Post by ghaleon on Feb 16, 2017 2:07:35 GMT -6
I haven't posted here in awhile figured I'd take a peek and see a thread that's something I like ri ght away. cool.
1: I would like equipment to demand a variable number of materials both in how many kinds of materials, and the quantity of each part to fluctuate. That being said, what I really really want is a crafting system where there are no materials that are all but useless except for one or two recipes. I feel like crafting mechanics are purely a gimmick when they have all kinds of common materials, but most if not all the recipes you generally only need one of such as equipment has some kind of material that is so rare or specific that it is likely going to be the last material you get for that item each and every time. At that point, why even have a crafting system, and just have the completed item 'drop' from the same source as that rare unique material. WAYYY too many games with crafting mechanics do this and it just feels like a cheap gimmick which makes you waste time to me.
I would like a system where nearly every material is relatively common, but each item will require varied amounts of it, so even the most common materials are something you have to budget with rather than take for granted... Plus it makes each time you find or loot said common materials feel worthwhile rather than 'loot trash'.
2: I generally like shops in my games, and similar to above, I find they are implimented poorly most of the time. Where players generally find themselves swimming in so much gold that they can normally buy the most current equipment set as soon as they are available in shops. Either that, or if and when they do buy the 'best' set in a shop, they never again feel like money is something important minus those odd super priced endgame items like the duplicator, or bonus costumes/bgm or whatever. I want shops to have a variety of valuable tempting purchases that the player should be able to afford even half of so they have to pick and choose and really value what they get, and look forward to those pesky gold drops so they can afford more thoughout the game.
It's also worth mentioning that 'shop balance' is extremely important to roguelike games that have shops, so there's that too for roguelike mode.
3: Honestly I don't care. To me it'll be just another currency/material amongst the many at most, or just a plot mechanic. It doesn't matter to me if a useful material is called magi-crystals, or if they're called zombie-guano.
4: Doesn't matter to me again. Yeah it generally makes sense realistically that you can only forge stuff in a specific area, but realism isn't important to most games IMO. If you can only craft in specific areas, hopefully it's something relatively common for roguelike mode again. Nothing is more annoying than getting a massive supply of juicy crafting materials in a roguelike and have the 'forge' room not instantiate for the entire game. argh.
5: In regards to the ammo, do we know if ammo acts as ammo in this game? I mean does it deplete each time you use it and then you can't? Or is it like a mass effect 2 thing where it's basically just another equipment slot that affects the properties of your gun or whatever.
That said Ideally, I'd like consumables to be craftable but to be balanced well so that you can't just have a seemingly endless supply of them at whim. If it's not craftable I'll still take it as a win over the game being too easy because they are too abundant. Not that I have anything against someone who wants an easy game. I just don't like having to deliberately not use a game feature to provide myself with a challenge.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Feb 16, 2017 6:42:41 GMT -6
(...) 5: In regards to the ammo, do we know if ammo acts as ammo in this game? I mean does it deplete each time you use it and then you can't? Or is it like a mass effect 2 thing where it's basically just another equipment slot that affects the properties of your gun or whatever. (...) . It was revealed that ammo will work as ammo. It will deplete each time you use it, and there will be several ammo types. Guns will not have elements (like fire, ice) their ammo will. So, you can equip different amo at guns. You can see here, at this screenshot from one of the updates, that ammo actually have a display, with a /999 cap. The cap may be that, or maybe it starts lower, but there is a cap and ammo is deplete each time you use it.
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exalt9
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Post by exalt9 on Feb 16, 2017 8:24:45 GMT -6
Same whip with different materials? We already have tons of information about many aspects of Bloodstained: Ritual of the night. There is one element, through, that we are really lacking info. The forging system. As far as we know, Bloodstained will have a forging system, where you will be able to forge equipment, weapons and armor. Kickstarter page says: " It's not an Igavania without leveling, and Bloodstained will be no exception. In addition to the classic elements everyone’s come to expect, enemies in Bloodstained will drop a wide variety of items, materials, and magi-crystals necessary to create the items that will get you safely through Gebel’s castle."And it also says: "Crafting: As you explore, fight enemies, and complete quests you will gain experience and become more powerful, acquiring a variety of weapons along the way. Enemies will also drop materials you can use to craft new weapons and abilities using Miriam's training in alchemy."Could the eye represent a Magi-Crystal? We don't know much about how the forging will work in the game. Considering that, I ASK:
1) HOW DO YOU WANT THE MATERIALS TO WORK?
Each equipment could be forged by a definite set of materials (for instance, three different materials). Or maybe, some equipments would require more types. And each material is required only one unit, or more than one? Equipment can be "broken" into materials to be reused in other equipments?
You should be able to stack materials to boost is further similar to cooking in BotW.
2) YOU WANT THE SHOP TO SELL MATERIALS, WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT?
This question was addressed in a old thread of mine, but it makes sense here, so, i'm repeating it. Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night relies a lot on enemy drop (shards and materials, equipments and such). Even so, do you think the shop could seel materials, weapons and equipment? only materials? only equipment? Or the shop must be restricted to only basic healing items?
Do you not mean "sell"? Shops should not sell any materials, weapons, equipment, etc. If these items are sold in shops, it will make engaging in fights with tough enemies pointless.
3) WHAT ABOUT THE MAGI-CRYSTALS?
Magi-crystals are the name given to the crystals fused into Gebel and Miriam's body. And we know that enemies can also drop magi-crystals to be used for forging. So, how relevant magi-cyrstals are to forging? They add magic, or elements to the forged equipment? Or are just another piece of material with a cool name?
Magi-crystals should be used in forging.
4) CRAFTING ONLY AT SPECIFIC AREAS OR ANYWHERE?
Forging can work anywhere? the game's menu has a option to forge things right away? Or you prefer for the forging to work only at designated areas (maybe a furnace, the shop, Johannes...)?
Crafting should only work with a base where you have a furnace.
5) CONSUMABLE ITEMS BEING CRAFTED?
We already know that guns ammo will be crafted. You want the forging system to work only with equipment or you also want the ability to forge potions, other healing items (food? cooking?) and other types of consumables?
Food, potions, etc. should also be "forgable."
That's all folks! I added my comments in green.
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 16, 2017 10:07:51 GMT -6
exalt9 I may not be Pure Miriam , but something bugs me in what you wrote. You don't want any equipment in shops... You only want potion-sellers? It's a bit sad. I'd be all game for a reduced selection of various wares. In no game do they sell ultimate armors/weapons, it would be too easy (unless massive-coin grinding is about impossible, but then it's called a mirage, if not a scam towards the heroes). Betting all on monster drops (mobs that easily drop equipment, I haven't seen it much in RPGs and derivated*) or treasure chests is strange for me. Bloodstained is not a Rogue-like by nature, even if there is supposed to be planned such a mode in the future. You know, random rooms, items and monsters strategically placed, etc. I mean, I love to grind, but to find everything by killing monsters and blindly entering rooms for looting treasure and survive, but nothing else, isn't very exciting to me. I'd rather play a survival game then, but not of the horror kind, thank you. *That said, it does happen in Tales of Zestiria. Equipment is however bought from merchants at an ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE rate, you would need a few of the basic ones to buy a night at the inn (I never felt rich in this game). Their bonus stats are completely random too, more often than not being complete junk. It's a cool way to clog the inventory. Quite sad when you realize this.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Feb 16, 2017 15:29:59 GMT -6
- Materials should have a cap, so you need to forge often - or - put in a stash.
- Crating + stash in the save rooms, so those rooms get used more than saves?
- Shops could break down items to materials, but they wont sell any materials. Perhaps also have that stash I was talking about.
- If there is any cap on how high potions we can regenerate / volume / size, perhaps a forge can combine 2 or 4 to make 1 bigger. Thoughts goes to Diablo 2, where mana and health could be combined into Revjunation potions. Perhaps have 2 to cramp into 1, and give us the full effect. I guess we might need antidote for different type of attacks, and resistance potions. Wind + Earth potion could perhaps add additional bonus in 1 random attribute of resistance, making 1 potion cure 3 things at once. Faster rate = more expensive forge?
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