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Post by Enkeria on Jan 3, 2017 6:59:42 GMT -6
I would prefer to figure it out on my own. I don't mind bestiaries that provide lore, but I'm a little hesitant to request that they list specific enemy strategy/weaknesses. It's a tough call. The list should be something you must buy to actually obtain, a tutorial, guide. Like in SotN. I just bought after defeating an boss, to see if my way were more effective. It would not state the ultimate way, just one of many. The weakness could be viable after defeating an enemy / boss as well. The journey to figure out what goes where is fun, and knowing the weakness of the enemy before entering is like cheating, even though an option to do so would satisfy even more players. Options people, Options! We love options. I would like to see bosses that actually are weak against weapons that you perhaps usually do not use while running around outside, in the castle if the weapon is attached to an elemental attack that the boss dislike. Vespar, being water, perhaps hate fire. A spirit would hate holy perhaps? Or cursed attack? Perhaps with right elemental weapon, the critical damage is just higher in hit-rate, and thats all?
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Post by jboogieg on Jan 3, 2017 9:42:34 GMT -6
I would prefer to figure it out on my own. I don't mind bestiaries that provide lore, but I'm a little hesitant to request that they list specific enemy strategy/weaknesses. It's a tough call. The list should be something you must buy to actually obtain, a tutorial, guide. Like in SotN. I just bought after defeating an boss, to see if my way were more effective. It would not state the ultimate way, just one of many. The weakness could be viable after defeating an enemy / boss as well. The journey to figure out what goes where is fun, and knowing the weakness of the enemy before entering is like cheating, even though an option to do so would satisfy even more players. Options people, Options! We love options. I would like to see bosses that actually are weak against weapons that you perhaps usually do not use while running around outside, in the castle if the weapon is attached to an elemental attack that the boss dislike. Vespar, being water, perhaps hate fire. A spirit would hate holy perhaps? Or cursed attack? Perhaps with right elemental weapon, the critical damage is just higher in hit-rate, and thats all? Options are nice but sometimes having too many muddies the water. Weaknesses are already part of Castlevania. How important or useful depends on the game. Order of Ecclesia is really good at using them. If the demo has damage numbers by default as well as enemy names is there really a reason to make those shards to get? Seems kind of superfluous.
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Jan 3, 2017 10:41:02 GMT -6
If the demo has damage numbers by default as well as enemy names is there really a reason to make those shards to get? Seems kind of superfluous. Depends on that is actually the starting area. Perhaps there are something else before that? I have no idea, maybe it has already been answered. Options are welcome, and I agree - not too many but enough for the player to feel like they can have the very best experience. Numbers on/off is not important, but perhaps other options, like auto-equip, color / saturation options. We do have colorblind people. This would be another topic however. Finding items in game are always cool, and sense of progress.
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Post by Galamoth on Jan 3, 2017 10:41:37 GMT -6
The list should be something you must buy to actually obtain, a tutorial, guide. Like in SotN. I just bought after defeating an boss, to see if my way were more effective. It would not state the ultimate way, just one of many. The weakness could be viable after defeating an enemy / boss as well. The journey to figure out what goes where is fun, and knowing the weakness of the enemy before entering is like cheating, even though an option to do so would satisfy even more players. Options people, Options! We love options. I would like to see bosses that actually are weak against weapons that you perhaps usually do not use while running around outside, in the castle if the weapon is attached to an elemental attack that the boss dislike. Vespar, being water, perhaps hate fire. A spirit would hate holy perhaps? Or cursed attack? Perhaps with right elemental weapon, the critical damage is just higher in hit-rate, and thats all? Options are nice but sometimes having too many muddies the water. Weaknesses are already part of Castlevania. How important or useful depends on the game. Order of Ecclesia is really good at using them. If the demo has damage numbers by default as well as enemy names is there really a reason to make those shards to get? Seems kind of superfluous.That's what I'm thinking. While it would be interesting to see again, I'm more of the mind that seeing damage numbers & enemy names should be by default. Surely, there doesn't need to be Shards obtained in the game devoted to displaying combat feedback.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jan 3, 2017 10:55:15 GMT -6
I am more about relics, but if it is default, that is fine. That is just one of many aspects to the game.
But how about lore? Do we want minor info? Do we want to collect it? Do we get it a.s.a.p or do we need a type of journal / tome first? Do we read it elsewhere? Do we hear and/or read about it right before the boss to amplify the "terror" about it?
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 4, 2017 2:29:34 GMT -6
I also don't agree with the need of buying or collecting things for bestiary info or enemy names. In the newest games, many things in the Igavania formula was changed for the better in my opinion. Enemy names when you attack them and bestiary with unlockable information. ( itens and shard dropped are ? until you obtain / discover them). Backdash and slide and damage indicators (numbers). All of that should be on by default.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Jan 5, 2017 8:28:26 GMT -6
I also don't agree with the need of buying or collecting things for bestiary info or enemy names. In the newest games, many things in the Igavania formula was changed for the better in my opinion. Enemy names when you attack them and bestiary with unlockable information. ( itens and shard dropped are ? until you obtain / discover them). Backdash and slide and damage indicators (numbers). All of that should be on by default. I agree. I haven't played later Castlevania games. Collecting info are a thing however, even if it gives you it "free" when you kill the opponent.
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Sept 7, 2017 8:20:19 GMT -6
Hello all. Thought I would weigh-in on this topic. Not sure how I missed it from January.
Health bars...YES! A hundred times, YES! The small enemies don't need health bars, but bosses absolutely do need them. I know that IGAvania games tend to not have them, but the classic CV games did. So did the N64 games, the PS2-era CV games, and the Lords of Shadow games. This is something that I hope makes it into the final game. I love the way they did the health bars in Lament of Innocence.
As for my vote, I would like to have health bars, damage numbers, and a flash on the enemies when you connect with a hit. I prefer the health bar centered, at the bottom of the screen, along with the boss's name. (As opposed to the upper right...although upper right is better than not at all.) Also, if you don't have the health bar with the boss's name, you could battle something and not even know what it was called unless you open up your bestiary (aside from some cutscene that displays the name on a stop-frame image).
This health bar topic is something that I have run into on other games as well. I just don't get why people would NOT want them. It's the same with Monster Hunter--one of my most favorite game series'. Most hardcore MH fans will vehemently oppose health bars. I feel like they would make the game even better. It's one of those QoL additions that make for a better game, IMO. Let's not devolve to a less functional boss fight.
I would also like to have boss health bars, damage numbers, enemy names, ability to drop items from candles, etc all turned on by default. Leave the relics to things like double jump, griffon wing, and other traversal-related abillities.
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Post by CastleDan on Sept 7, 2017 9:08:28 GMT -6
No thanks to health bars. I like to be sucked into the experience and seeing a giant health bar that tells me how much more time i have till i beat something ruins the fun. I like the mysteriousness of a fight.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 7, 2017 9:47:40 GMT -6
Health bars make the most sense imo in games that are more difficult, and as an indicator to how effective you're being against a (usually pretty hard) enemy. In Igavania style games, I agree that it's more entertaining to not know how much more of the fight is left, it just adds to the suspense and surprise all while not being hard enough anyway to where you NEED to know how much more is left.
OG Castlevania games and the 3D ones benefited from this, and definitely games like Devil May Cry, Dark Souls, etc.
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Post by Redogan on Sept 7, 2017 16:54:45 GMT -6
Yeah, I guess I can see that. I just really enjoy seeing the boss have a health bar and being able to tell just how devastating a hit can be. I love landing a hit on a monster and seeing a huge chunk of the life bar disappear. You don't get that same feeling from just the damage numbers. I can see regular hits not taking off much and having very little visual feedback on the health bar; however, when Miriam casts some uber powerful magi-crystal spell....well, that health bar dropping dramatically would be pretty satisfying. Not to mention watching the health bar drain when speedrunners do their thing against bosses.....
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 8, 2017 1:19:48 GMT -6
In any case, coming back to this topic, the display of enemy health-bars [by default] would most likely only be a thing in CLASSIC MODE.
And by "enemy health-bars", I don't mean for every enemy. I mean BOSS enemies.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 8, 2017 8:04:15 GMT -6
Galamoth, you mean the bar would always be visible, but only deplete vs. bosses like classicvania? That's...a lot more "classic" than I was thinking we'd be seeing hahaha
Redogan, I hear you on the satisfying feedback of doing damage to something. More often than not though, I generally just feel sorry for the Igavania bosses rather than enjoy a satisfaction of doing damage against them hahaM. It's like...I'm going to hit you with my strongest thing, good luck hitting me, and if you do, I have something like 30 healing items that don't have start up frames I can use lol. It's truly satisfying when it's really tense/difficult to hit that high damage thing.
Order of Ecclesia felt like that more often, to me. I think too it could be a nice toggle to have available, or in certain modes. Maybe after the initial playthrough, since you can see HP values in the bestiary anyway, could be fine to allow health bars in NG+ and other modes, clear files, etc.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 8, 2017 8:10:18 GMT -6
Galamoth, you mean the bar would always be visible, but only deplete vs. bosses like classicvania? That's...a lot more "classic" than I was thinking we'd be seeing hahaha Yeah, though only within the bounds of Classic Mode. Not the actual Igavania-style main game.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Sept 8, 2017 12:43:38 GMT -6
Asked on Facebook about boss healtbar / healthmeter Question: Would you rather see Bosses have a hidden healthmeter to keep the battle intense and mysterius or a visible one? Perhaps you would like to see a combination in terms of difficulty, that we actually see the healthmeter when playing in a difficult mode once we know about the bosses and their (probably, but somewhat new) behaviour?
People responded:
As much as I would like to see the battle be intense, intimidating and difficult, my OCD demands to see the HP bar. I want to see how much damage I'm doing and I want to see the exact moment that bar is nullified and want to know exactly when the final blow is struck.
I prefer when the bosses' healthmeters are hidden, myself. Adds to the tension. I do like those moments where it's like 'Man, I've been hitting this things for hours... Are my attacks even working?!' which can force us to think outside the box.
Personally, I think no health bar is a better route. It doesn't clutter up the HUD and it makes for more suspenseful battles. A proper metroidvania shouldn't have health bars for enemies anyway.
I personally like seeing hp bars. maybe harder modes should hide them?
No HP bars. Much more fun and suspensful without them. Like dude said, makes you think outside the box
Showing boss HP should be an in-game option that can be toggled on, but is off by default. Ensure there is "noticeable battle damage" on bosses as Holden wrote. Also, ensure that attack effectiveness is communicated visually or audibly. As an example: if an attack is not effective because the monster is resisting that form of attack, have a blue glow with a "ting" noise, while an effective attack shows a red glow with a louder "ripping/slash" noise.
Honestly, I would like an HP bar for all enemies. Maybe a relic of some sort could allow it to show up.
Both. Make it in visible in hard mode/nightmare.
No bar but perhaps a visual or strategy change in the boss to show a half point or 1/3rd left point.
No meter, instead, modify the bosses animation to show it is weakened.
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Sept 15, 2017 1:50:10 GMT -6
Like many others said, there is a thrill in not knowing the full HP of enemies and bosses, sometimes leading to a battle to the death. There are many factors of growth in an igavania, like levels, equipment, shards, familiars levels, crafting... To go with that the damage you cause is shown on the screen. It's all that sense of "can I vanquish the boss with what I got or should I come back later on?" that is also found in RPGs that intices players to make their characters stronger.
On the other hand, games like Megaman or the classic Castlevania games had an enemy lifebar because enemies did not flinch when getting hit. With more modern games more hitting effects, reaction animations and death animations can be created and implemented. In Axiom Verge, bosses get redder and redder the closer they are from their demise. That said there is no enemy health bar. Potions, sub-health bar, experience points and levels are inexistant there. In terms of essentials, only the damage you can cause or maximum health can be increased (plus various weapons and a few armors).
I also do not think that too many hints on the effectiveness of weapons/skills/spells/familiar damage/offensive items should be displayed. It would lead to masive spamming.
In sum, let it remain mysterious and uncertain. That is all I wish for.
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