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Post by Kale on Oct 17, 2016 0:36:37 GMT -6
CotM was fuckin' boss!
I love that game to death. The only thing that sort of annoyed me was the double tap to run, and that run is super faster. Wish there was a happy medium.
As for "like Dark Souls" normally, I don't like that comparison to things but a metroidvania works for me in that regard. Though I don't know if I would want difficulty to be like dark souls either. Because in truth, every normal game difficulty is like dark souls. It's a try and try again method, the only difference is that when you die, you don't die and reload, you die and respawn. NG+ in that game only raises the enemy stats, and that is boring to me.
What I do like is Ninja Gaiden's difficulty increase. Play Ninja Gaiden Black. Normal is a bunch of normal ninjas, hard brings in robot ninjas and ninjas with more techniques. Very hard brings you in different bosses at certain points on top of everything else. And yes, their are stat increases, but it's not only stat increase, there is visual change as well as strategic changes. Makes it much more satisfying and encouraging to beat.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 11, 2016 12:14:16 GMT -6
I'm a big fan of the souls games but they are actually easy.....I'm not even skilled, I find OoE a harder game than any dark souls game. Thats because I have the reaction speed of a snail (bullet hell games are impossible for me). Dark souls is about information, if you know how to fight, where to fight, and with what set up, the games are a cake walk. The notorious difficulty of Dark Souls games comes mostly from the game telling you almost nothing useful. Once you learn the mechanics, its a far easier game. #1 tip, be super cautious, slow moving, alert, and constantly scanning your surroundings (and keep that shield up!) and you'll rarely ever die.
Yes, that means I like to play tank builds in dark souls and yes bloodborne is harder game because you must dodge but its till not that hard.
On the other hand, OoE and CotM are games that require me to actually dodge enemy attacks and again, I have terrible reflexes. I still find the challenge fun but those two Castlevanias are harder for me than any Dark Souls game ever was. OoE normal certainly feels like AoS hard.
I guess my point is that the Souls games are nowhere near as hard as people think they are. Souls games being hard is purely a meme that doesn't match reality. On the other hand, OoE lvl 1 hard mode is a real nightmare. lol
Whats more important to me is the level of Grind. Ginding for souls in DoS really killed my enjoyment of the game. It feels like the drop rate is far worst than AoS. I would prefer soul drops in Bloodborne to be more like AoS. Some souls were annoying to get but nothing too bad. And more importantly, my weapons weren't tied to farming souls.
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Post by dragonkd on Dec 11, 2016 17:08:29 GMT -6
perhaps bringing up darksouls wasn't the best idea, but the point here is simple. the player will NEED to explore and get the best equipment available to make decent progress, like ooe max lv 1, will need to be able to dodge, and so on. sotn isn't THAT broken of a game, there are just too many weapons that kill it early on. on my first run through ooe, I actually needed to use most of the potions available in the shop, and since there were only sdo many, I needed to improve in order to succeed.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 11, 2016 17:44:27 GMT -6
Oh no, you made a perfectly valid point with Dark Souls. I'm just being nit picky because it bugs when people say its such a hard game. I'm a terrible player and even I can beat Dark Souls 1 with very few deaths, heck even zero deaths if I'm lucky in boss fights.
However, Death seems to like to trash me in Castlevania games and then I watch speedrunners crush him without taking damage and I feel bad about myself. lol So yeah, which is the harder series again?
On a related note, IGA has said that DoS and PoR are easier games because of complaints his games are too hard. And then he got the opposite reaction after those games so he made OoE. So clearly he knows how to make a Metrovania game both easy and challaning. And since Bloodstained is having difficulty modes including nightmare, which I believe will be selectable right off the bat, I'm sure both casuals and hardcore players will be happy with the challenge in the game.
One thing I disliked about DoS is that you have to craft the best weapons. Some of my favorite moments from games like AoS are discovering the best equipment, such as the cleverly hidden Eversing and Claimh Solais. The feeling of accomplishment and progression through discovery is a big part of what makes Metrovania games fun for me. The crafting didn't ruin DoS for me, heck I love CotM where your alt weapons are from magic, but still its a negative for me. Its one reason why I prefer OoE (or heck even AoS).
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Post by m0nkf15h on Dec 12, 2016 15:33:40 GMT -6
IGA himself said that difficulty curve in Igavainia games is the way it is because he wants new players to be able to pick-up-and-play the games easily but die-hard fans always want things to be more difficult so for them he adds new game mechanics and features.
I think we'll do well with Bloodstained though because Nightmare Difficulty stretch goal was funded, this is where i think we'll find the real challenge in the game. In regards to how it will be different from the main game only IGA and his team knows but i know they are commited to making it the best that it can be. I expect big things and, at the very least, blistered thumbs.
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Post by dragonkd on Dec 12, 2016 15:34:42 GMT -6
the reason why dawn (and crafting) was a pain was drop rate of souls.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 12, 2016 16:38:13 GMT -6
IGA himself said that difficulty curve in Igavainia games is the way it is because he wants new players to be able to pick-up-and-play the games easily but die-hard fans always want things to be more difficult so for them he adds new game mechanics and features. I think we'll do well with Bloodstained though because Nightmare Difficulty stretch goal was funded, this is where i think we'll find the real challenge in the game. In regards to how it will be different from the main game only IGA and his team knows but i know they are commited to making it the best that it can be. I expect big things and, at the very least, blistered thumbs. Here I come with my low level thoughts. I enjoyed Symphony of the Night because I could beat the game, which is rare. I usally either get stuck or get bored, probably both at the same time. The difficulty was fine for my taste. Since the Nightmare Difficulty was funded, I do not see any reason why the original mode could not be easy, at least there is a difficulty option this time around. And if I can't beat the original, I hope the funded cheat codes can make me enjoy the game somehow. Not keen on cheating, but I really gets bored very fast. And with the difficulty settings, they perhaps could as a custom menu to toggle things? Like health and such... ?
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Dec 12, 2016 16:47:18 GMT -6
IGA himself said that difficulty curve in Igavainia games is the way it is because he wants new players to be able to pick-up-and-play the games easily but die-hard fans always want things to be more difficult so for them he adds new game mechanics and features. I think we'll do well with Bloodstained though because Nightmare Difficulty stretch goal was funded, this is where i think we'll find the real challenge in the game. In regards to how it will be different from the main game only IGA and his team knows but i know they are commited to making it the best that it can be. I expect big things and, at the very least, blistered thumbs. Here I come with my low level thoughts. I enjoyed Symphony of the Night because I could beat the game, which is rare. I usally either get stuck or get bored, probably both at the same time. The difficulty was fine for my taste. Since the Nightmare Difficulty was funded, I do not see any reason why the original mode could not be easy, at least there is a difficulty option this time around. And if I can't beat the original, I hope the funded cheat codes can make me enjoy the game somehow. Not keen on cheating, but I really gets bored very fast. And with the difficulty settings, they perhaps could as a custom menu to toggle things? Like health and such... ? If the main game is easy, I want Nightmare mode to be available from the get-go. I don't wanna have to beat the game on a ridiculously easy leisure just to get to a harder difficulty. Otherwise if it's not the case, don't make the initial game super easy.
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Post by Galamoth on Dec 12, 2016 17:00:18 GMT -6
Here I come with my low level thoughts. I enjoyed Symphony of the Night because I could beat the game, which is rare. I usally either get stuck or get bored, probably both at the same time. The difficulty was fine for my taste. Since the Nightmare Difficulty was funded, I do not see any reason why the original mode could not be easy, at least there is a difficulty option this time around. And if I can't beat the original, I hope the funded cheat codes can make me enjoy the game somehow. Not keen on cheating, but I really gets bored very fast. And with the difficulty settings, they perhaps could as a custom menu to toggle things? Like health and such... ? If the main game is easy, I want Nightmare mode to be available from the get-go. I don't wanna have to beat the game on a ridiculously easy leisure just to get to a harder difficulty. Otherwise if it's not the case, don't make the initial game super easy. I don't think that will be the case. The game being too "easy" on the default difficulty, anyway. "Normal" should certainly remain challenging to an extent, especially if you don't power-level (whether you're doing it on-purpose, or gaining levels while farming for Shards/items).
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Post by Dengojin on Dec 12, 2016 19:17:47 GMT -6
Difficulty options ? it is not that complicated.
Easy for uhh easy ?
Normal for a balanced difficulty
Hard for.. guess what ? more challenge! and you unlock the Nightmare after you beat the game for the first time, I don't want the game to be SOTN easy for sure.
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Dec 12, 2016 19:39:42 GMT -6
easy mode for people unfamiliar with igavanias to get their feet wet
normal somewhere between sotn and ooe, not easy but with a decent difficulty curve to challenge you
hard ooe, deaths galore and you have to watch your step
nightmare, like playing lvl 1 sotn naked using the luck code, just wreck thy shit
now... those being said, yes they should be available at start so you the player can gauge where you want to start, and i keep pushing these 3 relics because i think giving the player an additional method to self regulate their playstyle (and to keep people like me from getting super op simply because ocd says i must have all the enemy drops as soon as possible >.>) , but a relic to freeze your xp, one to freeze your skill mastery (if its in the game), and one to freeze your money (give you mp shards instead) would give you the player more options (self regulation is not a bad thing, it shouldnt REPLACE difficulty, but forcing you to stop the game entirely to seek out the best possible equipment every time you gain a new ability should never be on the table for anything other than the absolute hardest difficulty setting OR the entire purpose of the WHOLE game is to just kick your teeth in and cater to masochists, like the game pitch doc starts out with THIS GAME IS ONLY FOR MASOCHISTS IT WILL KICK YOUR TEETH IN in like 72pt font >P)
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Post by Kale on Dec 12, 2016 23:18:45 GMT -6
I'm all for an easy mode. Not everyone wants to have a hard game.
But I hope it would be an easy mode and a normal/hard mode. Not that the game is easy by default.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Dec 13, 2016 3:47:02 GMT -6
If the main game is easy, I want Nightmare mode to be available from the get-go. I don't wanna have to beat the game on a ridiculously easy leisure just to get to a harder difficulty. Otherwise if it's not the case, don't make the initial game super easy. I don't think that will be the case. The game being too "easy" on the default difficulty, anyway. "Normal" should certainly remain challenging to an extent, especially if you don't power-level (whether you're doing it on-purpose, or gaining levels while farming for Shards/items). Yeah, that's my hope too. Especially since farming for Shards/items will essentially be an unintentional way of power leveling, anyway. For a completionist like myself, anyway.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 13, 2016 6:54:05 GMT -6
Normal SotN was to some of you guys "easy". It was normal to me. Just say'n.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 13, 2016 13:21:50 GMT -6
Yeah, I prefer the real difficulty to be in nightmare mode. Normal should be accessible and beatable by anyone. Thats one of the strengths of an Igavania. I just want the harder difficulties unlocked from the start so the hardcore players can have their fun immediately too.
I hope there is a level 1 nightmare mode. These kinds of hard challenges increase the replayablity of the game.
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Post by Kent on Dec 16, 2016 17:48:13 GMT -6
Good difficulty design isn't merely a numbers game: It includes it, but is not encompassed by it. Simply making numbers bigger or smaller relative to other numbers as the only means of changing difficulty in a game usually ends up with the game being a lesser gameplay experience somewhere along the road. There are two examples of well-designed difficulty levels in games I'd like to bring up to illustrate this:
First up is Gunstar Heroes on the Sega Genesis (and available digitally on ... most platforms now - including the fantastic Sega 3D Classics version for the 3DS). While there are baseline numbers changes between all of the different weapons you can pick throughout the game, some have higher or lower relative DPS to others simply based on what difficulty setting you chose - generally-speaking, the harder-to-use weapons are more powerful, but the proportions change to emphasize their usage on higher difficulties, whereas homing weapons that are easy-to-use and allow you to focus more on evading enemy attacks are at less of a numbers disadvantage on lower difficulties. Bosses do have more health on higher difficulties as well.
But here's the big thing: Enemies in general are more aggressive at higher difficulties. Bosses have more attacks and more complex patterns at higher difficulities. One boss in particular, Seven Force, has seven different forms, but the number you have to fight scales with difficulty setting (all seven forms on Expert difficulty, while you only fight four of them on Easy - the order of forms is completely random outside of the first one, and which of the remaining forms are absent on a lower difficulty setting is as well). This does mean that you're getting a simplified gameplay experience on a lower difficulty level, but the important takeaway of this is that it still gives you the brunt of the gameplay experience: You're not skipping mechanics due to killing a boss too quickly at low levels, nor are you getting bored from a fight just dragging on and on at a higher level. It's easier - or harder - based mostly on the fact that there are some attacks you may or may not have to worry about dodging, but the overall feeling and intensity of the fight is preserved relative to the difficulty setting. Importantly, you can't just sit and trade hits with the boss until you win on any setting - it's just that it's easier or harder to keep yourself alive while dealing the damage you need to deal throughout it, meaning the amount of player skill required changes, not simply the time it takes to kill something.
The other example of note here is Mega Man 10. Mega Man 10 features a Hard Mode, which instead of upping numbers on things (which you can still inflict on yourself by playing as Proto Man - who takes double damage, but has other gameplay features associated with him), has three major effects: It alters enemy placements so that they're trickier to deal with, environments are changed slightly to make platforming more difficult (usually in the form of "there's spikes here now"), and boss patterns are changed. The result is that Hard Mode feels like a "legitimate" step up in difficulty, rather than simply tilting some numbers against you (and a lot of this was necessitated due to the gaming needing to not have more number granularity than an NES Mega Man game could).
Though not entirely relevant here, it's worth mentioning the (current) latter half of the Resident Evil series (4, 5 and 6) and God Hand all feature a sliding difficulty, that changes based on how well the player is doing at it (in the latter, it's actually reflected on the UI as well, so it's more obvious that it's happening)... And what it actually causes is changes to the number of enemies, how aggressive they are, and the variance of things they try to do against the player. It's another example of great difficulty design, though the sliding difficulty mechanic isn't necessarily suited to all types of games (hence these as a footnote here).
I would absolutely prefer to see this game go the route of having multiple difficulty levels that are well-designed instead of being only numbers tweaks - I prefer to be challenged in a game, but unless there are other mechanics or features justifying numbers changes, then the additional difficulty settings might as well not exist. Self-imposed challenges, like low-level runs or runs where the player themselves imposes restrictions (or uses in-game items to restrict them) are fine and all, but shouldn't be considered as part of the normal scale of difficulties, as they're pretty much always a separate modifier for the experience (and sometimes don't even exist through any sort of in-game imposition).
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Post by Dengojin on Dec 16, 2016 18:38:57 GMT -6
Two reasons that made SOTN very easy and beatable by anyone, some stuff are intentionally implemented and some of them were some programming bugs, I'll give you an example :
1 - You can loop the boss fights easily, which can be fixed by adding more reactions to the AI.. the same mistake was done for a certain boss fight in Portrait of ruin. Looping an AI is definitely not intentional and should be avoided by all means, I know that all action RPGs have this loop cycle with boss fights, but you can't loop the boss forever.. they will always find a way out to break the looping circle, but that wasn't the case for SOTN.
2 - Alucard was really really strong, the game starts as normal, but it become easier the more you progress. Giving him some invincible weapons and transforms that can not be encountered by any of the enemies was the issue there.
Give the easy mode for those wants to beat the game, well.. easily and normal mode for a balanced difficulty, this mode is what most of the players are going to pick for their first runs, so they better make this one enjoyable by the core gamers who are looking for a decent doable challenge. ( Some people will totally avoid the game if it's "too easy and beatable by anyone on Normal mode" )
IMO :
Easy = Symphony of the night
Normal = Dawn of sorrow/Portrait of Ruin
Hard mode = Order of ecclesia
Nightmare mode = They should keep Konami in their heads while creating this mode
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Dec 16, 2016 19:08:58 GMT -6
Making the game as hard as OoE and CotM would be gravy for me. I dont think it will be, but as long as its not as easy as, say, Harmony of Dissonance I'll be fine.
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Post by exalt9 on Dec 18, 2016 8:04:28 GMT -6
Does anyone believe that there should be difficulty modes that discourage camping / turtling? Some areas can be easily cleared via camping / turtling. Higher difficulty modes should have enemies with faster movement, better AI, more HP, more powerful attacks, more defense, the ability to coordinate attacks via double teaming (attacking the playable character from 3 directions (top, left, right), etc.
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Post by dragonkd on Dec 18, 2016 12:45:08 GMT -6
nothing really chases and corners you in a vania game.this should be fixed, but don't count on it while the game is still room based.
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