BloodyTears92
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]It is time for darkness. It is a blood banquet.
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[TI1]It is time for darkness. It is a blood banquet.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 13, 2016 9:27:55 GMT -6
I agree with the people betting IGA won't go there, though he very well could. Now obviously we're getting some straight lifts already like the Buer, Morte is just a new spin on the classic Mudmen, and Dullahammer is just the classic Dullahan of old as well; but those are easy "stock monsters". They don't have a real "identity" so to speak. Considering just how much they want Bloodstained to be a separate IP with its own identity I feel like including Death as a boss/Gebel's right hand man would be straying too close, not to copywright, but interfering with IGA's wishes that this be a brand new IP that's juuuuust close enough to his old baby to scratch our itch.
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LeoLeWolferoux
Wielder of Emptiness
Fifty Storms
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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LeoLeWolferoux
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 13, 2016 11:47:48 GMT -6
Just call him Grim Reaper instead and bam its unique. I'm kinda hoping he returns it'd be a cool way to make it feel like the same series, and since castlevania is gone I kinda want that We just gunna call ya...Grimmie. :p
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Post by LordKaiser on Jul 13, 2016 12:16:11 GMT -6
Igarashi can use any public domain monster including the Alucard name that don't belong to Konami either since it appeared in a old Dracula movie called Son of Dracula.
Now the question is if the character designs are owned by the company Konami or by Koji igarashi or the ones who drew and painted them like Ayami Kojima among others.
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thrashinuva
Master Alchemist
[TI2] I'm interested in this.
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Post by thrashinuva on Jul 13, 2016 12:27:35 GMT -6
Now the question is if the character designs are owned by the company Konami or by Koji igarashi or the ones who drew and painted them like Ayami Kojima among others. Konami owns them. Though as fangamer has clearly proven with: , they have no hold on "vampiric looking man in black suit with cape.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 13, 2016 13:22:50 GMT -6
I mean, I know there was a desire to make a unique game out of this. I just wonder why they didn't do a vampire type game. I mean it's not like Castlevania will ever get legitimate sequels from this point on. So it seems like a missed opportunity to make a legit castlevania under a new game.
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LeoLeWolferoux
Wielder of Emptiness
Fifty Storms
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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LeoLeWolferoux
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 13, 2016 17:23:36 GMT -6
I mean, I know there was a desire to make a unique game out of this. I just wonder why they didn't do a vampire type game. I mean it's not like Castlevania will ever get legitimate sequels from this point on. So it seems like a missed opportunity to make a legit castlevania under a new game. I mean Bloodstained will prolly be its own series, but that doesn't mean that Bloodstained will be the only 'spiritual successor' to Castlevania. IGA could potentially make other 2.5D platformers as well.
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dareka
Dhampyr
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Post by dareka on Jul 13, 2016 17:38:57 GMT -6
Igarashi can use any public domain monster including the Alucard name that don't belong to Konami either since it appeared in a old Dracula movie called Son of Dracula. Now the question is if the character designs are owned by the company Konami or by Koji igarashi or the ones who drew and painted them like Ayami Kojima among others. The publisher for a game is normally granted copyright for all of the assets, regardless of who made them. The person who made them has (in theory, anyway) the right to claim authorship, but not the right to distribute and sell the work - that's the right ceded to the publisher. I remember reading or seeing something about IGA getting to keep the rights to Bloodstained (I think Ben mentioned it when talking about their relationship with their publisher), but this type of arrangement is very, very rare, and it just doesn't happen when you are an employee of the publisher. In fact, when you join a developer of any kind of content - even business software - your contract will stipulate that you cede all of your copyrights for any and all things you may create in or outside the company to them. It's more of a precaution so that you don't do stuff for competitors in your free time, but it's real.
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jim
Master of the Candle Skeleton
Ancient Legion
[TI1]"Hey! But you.... Wait... No.. You can't!.. But I... And he....Bu.. I.. An... Just.... NOOOO
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Post by jim on Jul 13, 2016 18:40:35 GMT -6
As an aside, while I think its likely Yamane wants to avoid recomposing say "A Lost Painting", I think fears she might avoid a particular instrument or type of instrument border on paranoia and hyperbole. Like just c'mon son! I can either voice my concerns now or hope for the best and kick myself later. And I don't think that particular example was much of a stretch. An organ's going to lend itself to basically two things: sustained chords, and the Toccata and Fugue-like thing we hear in every Castlevania game. If Yamane elects to use an organ, one or both of those will happen, and it will conjure comparisons with Castlevania whether that was the intent or not. Therefore there is the risk that we won't get any. B) Unless you legitimately believe that all/most songs that use organs sound the same (and I can't/don't believe you do) than what you're saying still doesn't make sense. There's a lot of room for an OST to sound like a Yamane work and not essentially redo her greatest hits. Unless you think so little of her musical range that she can't make varied tracks using the same instruments? That she would somehow shackle herself for fears others might claim she is copying herself? (Note that both of those would be different from her just not using those instruments because she didn't want to and wanted to do something different - which I get the sense you would still be disappointed by?) Ok.... I know this is a bit off topic.... but why are ya'll talking about organs and using "Lost Painting" as the reference? "Lost Painting" from SotN is all string synth and percussion synth... The bass is either bass or cello with some mildly heavy effects on it, the counter melody is normal "Synth Strings" or Piccazo Strings (I don't think I spelled that right....) and the melody is a pure synthesized percussion like (xylophone or vibraphone like) instrument reminiscent of the old Midi "Crystal" instrument with occasional melody in the bridge being done by a music box sounding synth. Not trying to be picky, just wondering if there's another "Lost Painting" track I'm not familiar with that does use organs.
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Post by crocodile on Jul 13, 2016 19:25:29 GMT -6
Just call him Grim Reaper instead and bam its unique. I'm kinda hoping he returns it'd be a cool way to make it feel like the same series, and since castlevania is gone I kinda want that "Death" and the "Grim Reaper" are synonymous concepts. Death was even called the Grim Reaper in Castlevania 1 (at least the English version). The conversation has become less "can Bloodstained used Death?" (the answer to which is obvious if you look at popular media for a few minutes ) and more "if they want to use the concept, how should they differentiate it from how Castlevania used it if at all?". B) Unless you legitimately believe that all/most songs that use organs sound the same (and I can't/don't believe you do) than what you're saying still doesn't make sense. There's a lot of room for an OST to sound like a Yamane work and not essentially redo her greatest hits. Unless you think so little of her musical range that she can't make varied tracks using the same instruments? That she would somehow shackle herself for fears others might claim she is copying herself? (Note that both of those would be different from her just not using those instruments because she didn't want to and wanted to do something different - which I get the sense you would still be disappointed by?) Ok.... I know this is a bit off topic.... but why are ya'll talking about organs and using "Lost Painting" as the reference? "Lost Painting" from SotN is all string synth and percussion synth... The bass is either bass or cello with some mildly heavy effects on it, the counter melody is normal "Synth Strings" or Piccazo Strings (I don't think I spelled that right....) and the melody is a pure synthesized percussion like (xylophone or vibraphone like) instrument reminiscent of the old Midi "Crystal" instrument with occasional melody in the bridge being done by a music box sounding synth. Not trying to be picky, just wondering if there's another "Lost Painting" track I'm not familiar with that does use organs. I just picked Lost Painting at random off the top of my head because I know its a song Yamane wrote. It wasn't a comment on the specific composition of the song or instruments used. My point was that her instrument choice is going to be informed by the needs of the production and what she wants to do - not some fears of self-plagiarism.
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Jango
New Blood
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Post by Jango on Jul 13, 2016 21:14:23 GMT -6
Death, named as such, is open to any and everyone for personal use. There's no shortage of examples but Death from Darksiders 2 comes to mind. Beyond that, almost all cultures have some sort of personification of a being that takes one from life to an afterlife. The Biblical "Angel of Death" is another example that comes to mind. No company or person can own something as abstract and universal as death.
Speaking of Universal, they very well may have been the creators of the Alucard, son of Dracula character. Regardless, both he and Dracula are public domain and free to use. Just like characters such as Dante and Virgil from the Divine Comedy or Frankenstein's monster or Zeus or Santa Claus. Iga has them all at his disposal, but like others I think he's more interested in doing something new, even if it's only thematic differences.
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LeoLeWolferoux
Wielder of Emptiness
Fifty Storms
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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LeoLeWolferoux
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 13, 2016 21:15:56 GMT -6
Death, named as such, is open to any and everyone for personal use. There's no shortage of examples but Death from Darksiders 2 comes to mind. Beyond that, almost all cultures have some sort of personification of a being that takes one from life to an afterlife. The Biblical "Angel of Death" is another example that comes to mind. No company or person can own something as abstract and universal as death. Speaking of Universal, they very well may have been the creators of the Alucard, son of Dracula character. Regardless, both he and Dracula are public domain and free to use. Just like characters such as Dante and Virgil from the Divine Comedy or Frankenstein's monster or Zeus or Santa Claus. Iga has them all at his disposal, but like others I think he's more interested in doing something new, even if it's only thematic differences. IGA has always found it fun to surprise us, hasn't he? I hope that Death is somehow incorporated into the game, though I do think he's due for a re-design. :p
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 14, 2016 1:07:20 GMT -6
People keep saying that it has to be different than the konami interpretation... I don't think Konami HAS much of an interpretation.. being a skeleton in black robes and a scythe is pretty much the common interpretation to begin with. The only unique spin konami really adds to him IMO is having this ability to make miniature scythes spin around in mid-air randomly.
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WindsOfOsiris
New Blood
[TI0] We are in contradiction... However our feelings for the world are no different. How odd.
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WindsOfOsiris
[TI0] We are in contradiction... However our feelings for the world are no different. How odd.
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Post by WindsOfOsiris on Jul 14, 2016 4:30:30 GMT -6
lol or just change his name to "Shinigami" Cuz i think thats how Zangetsu would know him. that or Just a Reaper. or just get creative and animate a dark evil skeleton with a torn/worn black coat with fog emitting out form it and call him "The Undertaker".
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Post by m0nkf15h on Jul 14, 2016 6:08:37 GMT -6
If Death is to feature (under any name) then it should feel natural that he's there or there should story reasons for his presence. I'm not sure he fits as well into a story based around alchemy but if IGA has a vision for him in the game i'd be happy to see his return - just as long as he does not feel crowbarred in for the sake of having him. I think the narrative will govern whether he features or not and that is the way it should be.
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dareka
Dhampyr
Loyal Familiar
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Post by dareka on Jul 14, 2016 9:46:33 GMT -6
People keep saying that it has to be different than the konami interpretation... I don't think Konami HAS much of an interpretation.. being a skeleton in black robes and a scythe is pretty much the common interpretation to begin with. The only unique spin konami really adds to him IMO is having this ability to make miniature scythes spin around in mid-air randomly. Right, all it has to do is literally not be a copy-paste of one of the graphics in konami's games.
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LeoLeWolferoux
Wielder of Emptiness
Fifty Storms
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
Posts: 673
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Wielder of Emptiness
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LeoLeWolferoux
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 14, 2016 14:12:43 GMT -6
People keep saying that it has to be different than the konami interpretation... I don't think Konami HAS much of an interpretation.. being a skeleton in black robes and a scythe is pretty much the common interpretation to begin with. The only unique spin konami really adds to him IMO is having this ability to make miniature scythes spin around in mid-air randomly. Right, all it has to do is literally not be a copy-paste of one of the graphics in konami's games. But I mean Bloodstained LITERALLY couldn't do that even if they wanted to. None of the graphics from Castlevania's series would match the 2.5D of Bloodstained. Sure the Lord of shadows games use 3D models, but the entire games were in 3D. And I don't even know if Death was in those games or not because I didn't give two f*cks about Lord of Shadows, anyway. Lol
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jim
Master of the Candle Skeleton
Ancient Legion
[TI1]"Hey! But you.... Wait... No.. You can't!.. But I... And he....Bu.. I.. An... Just.... NOOOO
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Post by jim on Jul 15, 2016 15:24:58 GMT -6
I just picked Lost Painting at random off the top of my head because I know its a song Yamane wrote. It wasn't a comment on the specific composition of the song or instruments used. My point was that her instrument choice is going to be informed by the needs of the production and what she wants to do - not some fears of self-plagiarism. Ah! Gotcha. Sorry I missed that. I was just a bit on the confuzzled side.
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LeoLeWolferoux
Wielder of Emptiness
Fifty Storms
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
Posts: 673
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LeoLeWolferoux
[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 15, 2016 17:42:08 GMT -6
Bottom line is...
Yes. Death could legally be used.
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Post by giwagiwa on Jul 15, 2016 17:56:51 GMT -6
I mean after all, Konami can't copy-write Death can they? Would you like to see Death return? Specific designs of Death are copyrighted (like they can't re-use the visual design from Portrait of Ruin, for example), but of course Konami can't copyright the character "Death" itself.
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Post by Overlord on Jul 16, 2016 17:16:25 GMT -6
But yeah I want death in Bloodstained too... though it would be better if Death was a hidden boss that was more lost then wanting to fight... I personally don't want Death to be controlled by anyone he/she is their own entity. As someone who is glad IGA has a fresh start, I really like this idea. If he is going to do something "Castlevania", this would get my vote.
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