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Post by Kitti_W on Jun 9, 2016 2:42:47 GMT -6
Just a random thought that has crossed my mind.
I think a game director already has in his head a fully-playable-game. And his role in the team is to let other team members know what's inside his head.
So what we see in a final product is the game inside Iga's mind.
Or...
He just assemble the staff of various fields and tell them roughly how he want the game to be. The final product will be a combination of everyone's idea.
For example:
- We all see Miriam's idle battle pose in the latest update(which I love it). Who decides that she should pose like that? Iga or the character animation designer? - Who decide if the boss should fire 3-way fireballs or 5-way fireballs? Iga or the boss designer?
My guess is that there's no concrete rule and it's more likely the latter (let the team's ideas combined). Anyone here has been in a game development team before and know the fact?
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Elfina Ashfield
The Surreal Stargazer
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Post by Elfina Ashfield on Jun 9, 2016 12:30:50 GMT -6
Interesting question! It's like two types of band, the former is like someone in the band do all the compose and arrange, others just play the instruments, the latter is like someone in the band compose the music, and band members would do a jam together then fit in their own ideas in different parts to arrange.
Never been in a dev team though, but it kinda depends on the director, like some movie directors allow their actors to do something out of the scripts, others don't and everything should be like what's in his head.
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Post by Astaroth on Jun 9, 2016 13:18:56 GMT -6
Depends on the team and company makeup really, but it all comes down to the design doc, every game has one and the director is there to make sure the team doesnt stray too far from it
generally speaking the 1-2yr 'throwaway' portion of development is often the time when this doc is being finalized, where theres a general sense of what the game might from the pitch doc, but different ideas are thrown out to see if anything really sticks
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Post by dareka on Jun 17, 2016 16:55:20 GMT -6
First time posting here, so, sorry if I mess up. In game development, just who does what is something that ultimately depends on the company. There are some " guys in charge," normally referred to as the producer and the director. In Japan, the producer is normally the person who is ultimately responsible for the product, but he or she is not involved in the day to day design decisions. The person in charge of that, the one who heads the development team, is the director. But there are producers who are very hands-on, and directors who are very hands-off. Often there is a head game designer, known as the "main planner", who reports to the director and is in charge of making sure the game is fun. There are often several game designers providing ideas, and programmers and artists obviously voice their opinion, too. Going by how IGA's described his work with Inti-Creates, I get the feeling he's very hands-on but also very team-oriented: he loves for the team to come up with new ideas and give him their feedback. He's said he loves it when people surprise him by putting their personal touch on the product. This sort of thing really depends on the situation. For the battle pose, IGA could give instructions like "give Miriam a cool battle pose", and then the art director will discuss it with the animator and come up with something. Then IGA could look at the battle pose and say "I love it!" or, "maybe it could use some tweaking", etc. As for the fireball example, it really depends how much IGA wants to delegate to the other designers. He could simply ask for "an easy boss", he could ask for "a boss that shoots fireballs", he could ask for "a boss that shoots five fireballs"... the boss designer then offers a prototype and his own opinions, suggestions, etc. I think this is probably a better description of how western game development works - the Japanese do things a little differently. Instead of "design document", they use something they call a " kikakusho", which is more visual than detail oriented - you normally do them on Power Point! This document has the main ideas of the game, what the theme is, how it works, the features that make it fun... think of it as an extended comercial for the finished product. Since the "kikakusho" is meant to make people "get" the game, IGA must have had a early "kikakusho" for Bloodstained to show potential publishers. Once development begins, there's the " shiyousho" (specifications/features document), which doesn't necessarily exist as one document - it could be several documents, which outline how the different features of the game are meant to behave. But smaller scale games don't necessarily even get this treatment - they'll just write what parameters you should be able to tweak for the game and that's it! The team will talk goals, deadlines, and get to work.
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Ciel
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じーっ
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Post by Ciel on Jun 17, 2016 17:04:31 GMT -6
You just clarified a lot of things for me, thanks newuser-kun and welcome to our lovely community.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 17, 2016 18:17:51 GMT -6
Great post, Dareka! I wonder, though, doesn't the director have input on budget and time management as well? I know IGA was responsible for getting the portable games out under tight budgets and deadlines, so I'm sure he's lending some of that management expertise to Bloodstained as well ;o
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Post by dareka on Jun 17, 2016 19:30:49 GMT -6
You just clarified a lot of things for me, thanks newuser-kun and welcome to our lovely community. Thank you, glad to be of help! Normally when a Director is also in charge of the purse strings they give him the title of Producer as well, but yes, I'm sure IGA's using his management experience in Bloodstained, too. Remember, he's the one who's putting up the 5.5 million dollars raised by the kickstarter. How he'll end up being credited is something I don't know, though. Fun fact 1: IGA's actually credited as "assistant director" on Symphony of the Night ( while Toru Hagihara is credited as "producer and director" ). This doesn't tell us who had more creative input into the game - all it tells us is that IGA had to answer to Mr. Hagihara during development. Fun fact 2: It's very common nowadays for someone to be listed as a game's " executive producer." This is normally either the company president or the " yakuin" (high ranking executive) the producer had to answer to. He or she is ultimately the person who ultimately approves budgets.
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thrashinuva
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Post by thrashinuva on Jun 17, 2016 19:47:14 GMT -6
I remember Naoki Yoshida was labeled as both the producer and the director. He was incredibly hands on when he took over Final Fantasy XIV, and made a vast amount of key decisions and still does going forward.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 17, 2016 20:16:41 GMT -6
What does a director do? Well, let's just say that there's a reason why Iga brings his whip around all the time =P
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 17, 2016 22:34:44 GMT -6
What does a director do? Well, let's just say that there's a reason why Iga brings his whip around all the time =P Kinky. >:3
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Post by Goobsausage on Jun 18, 2016 2:47:11 GMT -6
What does a director do? Well, let's just say that there's a reason why Iga brings his whip around all the time =P Kinky. >:3 A whip is only as good as the leader who wields it. And if it's one of those 8-direction whips from Super Castlevania 4. Good leadership skills and having multiple angles to use a whip are important in pretty much every workplace.
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Post by estebant on Jun 18, 2016 11:26:09 GMT -6
A whip is only as good as the leader who wields it. And if it's one of those 8-direction whips from Super Castlevania 4. Good leadership skills and having multiple angles to use a whip are important in pretty much every workplace. Being a leader requires you to be strong. But flexible as well. Much like the Nebula whip.
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Post by Jango on Jun 19, 2016 16:04:45 GMT -6
It is interesting to observe the differences between Japanese and western developers. Iga has shown to take a fairly hands-on approach when developing games. By that I mean paying attention to where each part of team is and offering opinions or advice when questions come up or decisions need to be made.
On the other hand, a director like Inafune seems to have a different approach. He and his company Comcept seem to be less involved with day-to-day aspects of development and contribute broader creative and thematic direction. Of course this is mostly conjecture, since Japanese game development has historically been a fairly private process. I'd love to know how involved Inafune was for games like Onimusha. Whatever the case may be, there definitely does seem to be a difference of job roles between developers like Iga and someone like David Jaffe. Interesting stuff.
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Post by dareka on Jun 19, 2016 17:51:08 GMT -6
It is interesting to observe the differences between Japanese and western developers. Iga has shown to take a fairly hands-on approach when developing games. By that I mean paying attention to where each part of team is and offering opinions or advice when questions come up or decisions need to be made. On the other hand, a director like Inafune seems to have a different approach. He and his company Comcept seem to be less involved with day-to-day aspects of development and contribute broader creative and thematic direction. Of course this is mostly conjecture, since Japanese game development has historically been a fairly private process. I'd love to know how involved Inafune was for games like Onimusha. Whatever the case may be, there definitely does seem to be a difference of job roles between developers like Iga and someone like David Jaffe. Interesting stuff. While the approach to game development is very different in Japan, when you get right down to it it's the personality of the guy in charge that makes the biggest difference, regardless of the overall approach you're following. The way I see it, you've basically got these leader types (examples taken from Japanese game developers, but the same applies to western developers): The obsessive: always hands on, goes over everything to make sure it's just the way he/she wants it. Example: Hideo Kojima. The team player: maybe hands-on or hands-off, but tends to delegate responsibilities and accept the creative input from others. Example: IGA, Yoshi-P(FFXIV) The whip-cracker: maybe hands-on or hands-off, but the person's style is basically to push the team. Example: Keiji Inafune, Shigeru Miyamoto. None of these types is good or bad per-se ... they each have their advantages and disadvantages, and all leaders have to be a bit of each - but they do translate into very, very different results. Here are some advantages and disadvantages that come to mind. The obsessiveAdvantages: can lead to the creation of truly innovative and revolutionary games, as one guy's crazy vision is not diluted by those of others - no one else's opinion matters. Disadvantages: the whole no one else's opinion matters extends to the players as well, so controversial issues are not addressed. Think of the cut-scenes in Metal Gear: there are those who love them, but they've also been criticized for being too long, which is something Kojima never addressed. The team playerAdvantages: leads to the creation of games enriched by several different perspectives. Disadvantages: more likely to result in an evolutionary product as opposed to one which is revolutionary. Also, if the team player leader is not a good project manager, the game might never come out, since competing ideas eat up time and resources. The whip-crackerAdvantages: leads to games that represent the very best a team has to offer... Disadvantages: ... provided that the team is very good, or that the whip cracker him/herself is very good and very hands-on ... otherwise, demanding that stuff be better isn't going to make it better, and might actually make it worse.
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 19, 2016 18:23:55 GMT -6
Another great post, Dareka. If IGA's a team player, I have a great deal of confidence in him. He's already proven he's an excellent project manager given, as I mentioned above, his skill in leading the handheld vania teams to victory in the face of tight budgets and deadlines
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Post by Cernex on Jun 19, 2016 19:26:10 GMT -6
He directs!
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Post by Elfina Ashfield on Jun 20, 2016 2:07:43 GMT -6
It is interesting to observe the differences between Japanese and western developers. Iga has shown to take a fairly hands-on approach when developing games. By that I mean paying attention to where each part of team is and offering opinions or advice when questions come up or decisions need to be made. On the other hand, a director like Inafune seems to have a different approach. He and his company Comcept seem to be less involved with day-to-day aspects of development and contribute broader creative and thematic direction. Of course this is mostly conjecture, since Japanese game development has historically been a fairly private process. I'd love to know how involved Inafune was for games like Onimusha. Whatever the case may be, there definitely does seem to be a difference of job roles between developers like Iga and someone like David Jaffe. Interesting stuff. While the approach to game development is very different in Japan, when you get right down to it it's the personality of the guy in charge that makes the biggest difference, regardless of the overall approach you're following. The way I see it, you've basically got these leader types (examples taken from Japanese game developers, but the same applies to western developers): The obsessive: always hands on, goes over everything to make sure it's just the way he/she wants it. Example: Hideo Kojima. The team player: maybe hands-on or hands-off, but tends to delegate responsibilities and accept the creative input from others. Example: IGA, Yoshi-P(FFXIV) The whip-cracker: maybe hands-on or hands-off, but the person's style is basically to push the team. Example: Keiji Inafune, Shigeru Miyamoto. None of these types is good or bad per-se ... they each have their advantages and disadvantages, and all leaders have to be a bit of each - but they do translate into very, very different results. Here are some advantages and disadvantages that come to mind. The obsessiveAdvantages: can lead to the creation of truly innovative and revolutionary games, as one guy's crazy vision is not diluted by those of others - no one else's opinion matters. Disadvantages: the whole no one else's opinion matters extends to the players as well, so controversial issues are not addressed. Think of the cut-scenes in Metal Gear: there are those who love them, but they've also been criticized for being too long, which is something Kojima never addressed. The team playerAdvantages: leads to the creation of games enriched by several different perspectives. Disadvantages: more likely to result in an evolutionary product as opposed to one which is revolutionary. Also, if the team player leader is not a good project manager, the game might never come out, since competing ideas eat up time and resources. The whip-crackerAdvantages: leads to games that represent the very best a team has to offer... Disadvantages: ... provided that the team is very good, or that the whip cracker him/herself is very good and very hands-on ... otherwise, demanding that stuff be better isn't going to make it better, and might actually make it worse. Man, you rocks. I'm wondering how do you get information like these or just concluded them all by yourself?
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Post by dareka on Jun 20, 2016 10:03:00 GMT -6
Thank you.
I'm not Japanese, but I graduated from a Japanese game design school and worked at a well-known developer/publisher for a couple of years.
It's not much, but you meet a lot of people and hear a lot of things - get a feel for how they work.
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