fatihG
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Post by fatihG on Jun 9, 2016 21:41:58 GMT -6
Yeah, it could be something like an x-ray effect.
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Post by galcian on Jun 11, 2016 8:59:55 GMT -6
Seems like a whole lot of extra effort and animation for no gameplay gains and next to little aesthetic gains? To me, this is important. It's about having a game be the best it can. It looks like if she was clipping through the floor and it looks disgustingly bad. First time I noticed it I was like "ugh no, it needs polish". So yeah. Mana, if you get to read this could you forward this minor concern to the dev team? Some of us want this game to be the best it can. And 3D space is not the same as 2D flat sprites. Should not be treated in the same manner.
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jun 11, 2016 10:16:59 GMT -6
well the z depth or xray/alpha mask thing may be the most sane way to remedy the clipping part, i dont know the specifics of implementation that would need but having that 2d feel of magically being in front of and inside a platform at the same time cause sprite layers can do that would be a cool thing to try out, the only caution i could see is can you do that without miriam suddenly changing size with z depth because shes now moved closer to the camera or is it a trick of rendering, and is it a property that can be added to the platform itself and not an entire mechanic that needs a ton of extra codework that would slow down work on something like combat or movement? is the alpha mask/xray effect doable to where it only effects certain platforms and not the candles, enemies, or interactables because i know alpha masking can be used to hide certain things in second life, but the original implementation was rather indiscriminate so they had to move to a different kind of masking by giving character textures an alpha mask (only affects the portion of the character its supposed to hide) as opposed to giving an external object the alpha mask (might make an entire room of people and things disappear if you looked through it)
im sure theyre aware of this issue, and they may already have a solution for it planned, it just may not be programmed yet because this game is still in development and they havent gotten to that step yet, so please, calm
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Rixuel
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Post by Rixuel on Jun 11, 2016 10:24:59 GMT -6
The character is kinda transparent when going down/up the platform. You can still see the whole platform. I think just make the character non-transparent is fine
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fatihG
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Post by fatihG on Jun 11, 2016 15:50:25 GMT -6
Rixuel Thats interesting, looks like the already implemented something like what we were suggesting. It is basically an x ray effect. AstarothThe z-depth trick doesnt physically change the position of the object it is applied to. It is just a rendering trick. It is similar to an xray effect only you do not use a special shader to show what is being x rayed, you use the original one. And as far as I know, in unreal, only the things you want to be able to have the xray effect will have them. It needs to be added to the shaders of the elements you want 'xrayable'.
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ohoni
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Post by ohoni on Jun 12, 2016 1:12:06 GMT -6
Well, obviously the exact method would be up to them, but here's how I'd see it working:
Falling: This one is easy, since you'd be standing and have to execute a down+jump command, it will always know this is your intent and just perform an animation.
Rising: This one, as you note, is more complex, but not necessarily impossible or glitchy. The way I would do it is to have an invisible "predictive circle" around every platform (on second though, it would likely be a rectangle, but "circle" sounds better). Basically, it would be the max distance from which you'd actually be capable of landing on the platform. If it's impossible to reach the platform, then your sprite would be outside this circle, and the "edge grab" animation would not play at all. If you are within this circle, her legs would follow a set jumping animation, but her torso would follow an animation based on the platform. Between when she leaves the ground and when her hand touches the platform, it would shift between keyframes of "neutral" and "reaching upwards." If you stop rising, her hand would retract. If her hand crosses the plane of the platform, then it begins to transition from the keyframe of "reaching upwards" to the keyframe of "pushing downwards and her body upwards." Again, if you stop rising during this process, then the animation flows backwards. This would all happen very quickly, so minor inconsistencies shouldn't be noticeable.
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Post by spideryfingers on Jun 12, 2016 5:03:01 GMT -6
I like to think that what we saw in the demo footage is still a work in progress and that the 'dropping through the platform' and the 'transparency' will be eventually ironed out. Don't get me wrong, the raw footage and animation looks terrific but the these two flaws need to be addressed because they're slightly off-putting. I don't recall Mirror of Fate having these particular issues and so I expect the same from Bloodstained.
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Post by jboogieg on Jun 12, 2016 8:03:19 GMT -6
My only question about this would be how would it look with air control in the mix?
In the previous games when you're jumping and falling through a platform you can still move left and right; just like when you're jumping. If the purpose of adding an animation is to try and make things look less janky (which I don't necessarily think falling through a platform is janky) wouldn't it look weird to have an animation for falling down and climbing up while sliding left and right as well?
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 12, 2016 8:12:14 GMT -6
My preference would to just make Miriam render in front of the platform like Alucard does in 2D.
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ohoni
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Post by ohoni on Jun 12, 2016 17:19:56 GMT -6
Not really. I mean you wouldn't be touching any specific single point on the floor, and it would happen very fast, a few frames of animation.
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joebro88
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Post by joebro88 on Jun 12, 2016 18:56:15 GMT -6
Honestly I think it's perfect how it is, what they have is what I expected. Moving in front of the platform might work, but I don't want an extra animation of her when she does. It works perfectly in games like Kirby or Super Smash Bros, not once did I think twice about it. It would make her motion much more obvious and jarring.
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