Shax
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Post by Shax on May 10, 2016 9:31:12 GMT -6
Wait. Wasn't Iga... or was it Ben Judd... who said during the twitch stream for the launch that said that the physical copies are for backers only and that it's digital only beyond that? I don't think so, that wouldn't be a good move for the business. I think they were talking about the "special editions" that have backer-only content in them, like the Sword-Whip. They would want to sell as many copies as possible to make a profit and making the physical copies for backers only really wouldn't help with that.
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Post by crocodile on May 10, 2016 14:21:22 GMT -6
Something that occured to me regarding partial content on the physical disc... We're all thinking about the kickstarter physical versions only, but I'm pretty sure bloodstained will have physical copies for those who did NOT kickstart the project waiting to be purchased in retail stores after the game's release. Which I mean is are THESE physical copies, in the stores... Are they going to not feature everything as well? Where after installing the player is prompted for a 'day one patch' so to speak to get everything? People tend to dislike that. We have to remember that this isn't just a game for kickstarter supporters only, but hopefully it'll be much bigger than that, like with shovel knight, divine divinity, Faster than Light, etc. But even more akward, is if the retail copies DO feature everything... and then the kickstarter supporter copies do NOT... That would just be... yeah, I think even some of the more reasonable people might be irate about that. I'm aware of the catch 22 mentioned, but I'm just saying that the hole is actually deeper on both ends than what was already pointed out. I feel you are seriously overthinking this. Since they have a publisher already lined-up, the retail release will come out around the same time as the digital release. It's not going to be delayed 12+ months. The primary differences between the instore and kickstarter versions of the physical version will likely be price (I expect it to be more expensive to buy the game in-store than through the minimum required on the kickstarter when you subtract the value of any KS bonuses), packaging and bonus content (like the extra weapons + boss exclusive to the kickstarter version). Physical versions of games not including all content ever produced (as more content gets added over time) is beyond normal at this point - the Shovel Knight model is very popular. Pretty much every other alternative is worse for the vast majority of consumers or worse for the dev team.
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Mana
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Post by Mana on May 12, 2016 2:52:15 GMT -6
Hi Everyone,
I apologize for being away for a while. There was a long holiday break in Japan.
As much as we would like to share which contents are in the initial version and which are released later, this will depend on Inti Creates and our publisher. We understand that there are concerns over the physical copies and how they are handled, but we would also like to address that the initial release will not be an unfinished game. Some people may not agree with staggered content release but this is a good process for smooth shipment and a good business model for today's gaming scene. Remember, we broke through those stretch goals off the roof and this is becoming an enormous game compared to our initial plan. I've asked the team if they have anything they wanted to mention regarding the additional contents but they said that they are still deciding on which features to prioritize. I will keep everyone updated when they are ready to share it.
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Post by JoJo on May 12, 2016 3:06:00 GMT -6
Hi Everyone, I apologize for being away for a while. There was a long holiday break in Japan. As much as we would like to share which contents are in the initial version and which are released later, this will depend on Inti Creates and our publisher. We understand that there are concerns over the physical copies and how they are handled, but we would also like to address that the initial release will not be an unfinished game. Some people may not agree with staggered content release but this is a good process for smooth shipment and a good business model for today's gaming scene. Remember, we broke through those stretch goals off the roof and this is becoming an enormous game compared to our initial plan. I've asked the team if they have anything they wanted to mention regarding the additional contents but they said that they are still deciding on which features to prioritize. I will keep everyone updated when they are ready to share it. So, with this, we will just have to see what modes that will be coming out then I do hope ALL of singleplayer aspect of the game will be released on launch day, since multiplayer doesn't really mean much for IGAvania games
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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Post by Galamoth on May 12, 2016 4:19:52 GMT -6
Hi Everyone, I apologize for being away for a while. There was a long holiday break in Japan. As much as we would like to share which contents are in the initial version and which are released later, this will depend on Inti Creates and our publisher. We understand that there are concerns over the physical copies and how they are handled, but we would also like to address that the initial release will not be an unfinished game. Some people may not agree with staggered content release but this is a good process for smooth shipment and a good business model for today's gaming scene. Remember, we broke through those stretch goals off the roof and this is becoming an enormous game compared to our initial plan. I've asked the team if they have anything they wanted to mention regarding the additional contents but they said that they are still deciding on which features to prioritize. I will keep everyone updated when they are ready to share it. Good on you, Mana. We shall all wait patiently for this update.
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ReySol
Master of the Solar Eclipse
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Post by ReySol on May 12, 2016 7:36:16 GMT -6
Thanks, Mana. It is good to have you back with us. My opinion is that it is a wise decision to release the main game first and additional content later. Even though I backed the physical version, I don't care too much what is on the disc and what is not. I am just happy this game is being made and I hope to be alive and healthy to enjoy it.
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Post by Goobsausage on May 12, 2016 21:08:19 GMT -6
Thank you for providing an update on the situation, addressing concerns, and transparency on plans for content, Mana! I appreciate it.
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Post by Foffy on May 14, 2016 6:23:27 GMT -6
I am down for this. It allows them to hit a target closer to their implied release date and doesn't hold the game back for an eternity, like the disaster we've seen with Mighty No. 9.
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Post by LordKaiser on May 15, 2016 10:53:32 GMT -6
We now have 2 threads talking about the same. I wish we could merge them. XD
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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Post by Galamoth on May 15, 2016 16:39:22 GMT -6
We now have 2 threads talking about the same. I wish we could merge them. XD Two threads? Could you link the other one here?
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on May 15, 2016 18:00:36 GMT -6
hes talking about the vote thread for staggered
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cecil-kain
Operation: Akumajo
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Post by cecil-kain on May 15, 2016 22:12:26 GMT -6
Hi Everyone, I apologize for being away for a while. There was a long holiday break in Japan. As much as we would like to share which contents are in the initial version and which are released later, this will depend on Inti Creates and our publisher. We understand that there are concerns over the physical copies and how they are handled, but we would also like to address that the initial release will not be an unfinished game. Some people may not agree with staggered content release but this is a good process for smooth shipment and a good business model for today's gaming scene. Remember, we broke through those stretch goals off the roof and this is becoming an enormous game compared to our initial plan. I've asked the team if they have anything they wanted to mention regarding the additional contents but they said that they are still deciding on which features to prioritize. I will keep everyone updated when they are ready to share it. Mana, I've been giving this topic a lot of thought. I love digital distribution and I'm OK with a staggered release, but this news could really upset purists who expect the full game on physical media. It makes perfect sense for the mass market, but I think the Backer Editions deserve special consideration. If qualified backers are willing to wait on a physical copy with all the extra content, they should have the option to do so IMO. The sooner Igarashi can make an official statement to clarify these matters, the better for everyone concerned. Cheers.
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Post by Mana on May 16, 2016 1:33:48 GMT -6
Hi Everyone, I apologize for being away for a while. There was a long holiday break in Japan. As much as we would like to share which contents are in the initial version and which are released later, this will depend on Inti Creates and our publisher. We understand that there are concerns over the physical copies and how they are handled, but we would also like to address that the initial release will not be an unfinished game. Some people may not agree with staggered content release but this is a good process for smooth shipment and a good business model for today's gaming scene. Remember, we broke through those stretch goals off the roof and this is becoming an enormous game compared to our initial plan. I've asked the team if they have anything they wanted to mention regarding the additional contents but they said that they are still deciding on which features to prioritize. I will keep everyone updated when they are ready to share it. Mana , I've been giving this topic a lot of thought. I love digital distribution and I'm OK with a staggered release, but this news could really upset purists who expect the full game on physical media. It makes perfect sense for the mass market, but I think the Backer Editions deserve special consideration. If qualified backers are willing to wait on a physical copy with all the extra content, they should have the option to do so IMO. The sooner Igarashi can make an official statement to clarify these matters, the better for everyone concerned. Cheers. Thank you for giving your thoughtful opinion cecil-kain ! After hearing many disagreement from our physical backers, this will be in our mind. As for now, our goal is to deliver the main game. This is to everyone but please disregard any article that bring up release date assumptions. ArtPlay and Inti Creates do have control over the game completion but releasing the game could very much change due to our publisher. There has been no official statement regarding this matter. EDIT: Fixed tagging cecil-kain
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Post by demiurgos on May 16, 2016 1:44:53 GMT -6
I slacker backed before the rumors of staggered content release (whatever this turns out to be), but after the stretch goals became a reality. If you'd look upon this harshly, I payed for a physical copy of the game with everything included and nothing staggered. If I could have it my way, I'd like everything to be included from start... and I'm totally fine with this even if it take years for the game to be released.
However... I realize that this is not the way the world and gaming industry works today. I really want this game to be a success... and if it takes staggered content for this game to reach the market standards of today and be super profitable (or whatever)... so be it.
I guess it's a luxury to do art with no monetary strings attached and no noisy fanbase to please.
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Post by crocodile on May 16, 2016 1:50:37 GMT -6
Hi Everyone, I apologize for being away for a while. There was a long holiday break in Japan. As much as we would like to share which contents are in the initial version and which are released later, this will depend on Inti Creates and our publisher. We understand that there are concerns over the physical copies and how they are handled, but we would also like to address that the initial release will not be an unfinished game. Some people may not agree with staggered content release but this is a good process for smooth shipment and a good business model for today's gaming scene. Remember, we broke through those stretch goals off the roof and this is becoming an enormous game compared to our initial plan. I've asked the team if they have anything they wanted to mention regarding the additional contents but they said that they are still deciding on which features to prioritize. I will keep everyone updated when they are ready to share it. Mana , I've been giving this topic a lot of thought. I love digital distribution and I'm OK with a staggered release, but this news could really upset purists who expect the full game on physical media. It makes perfect sense for the mass market, but I think the Backer Editions deserve special consideration. If qualified backers are willing to wait on a physical copy with all the extra content, they should have the option to do so IMO. The sooner Igarashi can make an official statement to clarify these matters, the better for everyone concerned. Cheers. I know Mana already replied to this but if I were to interject, I would say physical editions releasing without all the content ever to be created for a game are by far the norm - if they weren't than the concept of DLC couldn't exist (which when done properly and not abused is a boon to developers and consumers alike). The number of kickstarter games that launch with a physical edition is still a small number and likely to increase in the future but this release pattern still follows general industry trends and given what I've seen online, has near universal praise. MN9 getting held up for extra modes (in addition to a host of communication problems) has REALLY hurt the reception and hype for that game - sales will likely be affected regardless of how good the game is. I know you aren't speaking for yourself but rather on the behalf of others, I respect that others maybe be annoyed that the physical edition they will receive won't have all the content ever made for this game and obviously the dev team may feel differently, I don't think accommodating them is especially reasonable mostly as a function of logistics. Figuring who out out of everybody got a physical edition is ok not getting theirs for 12-24 extra months, printing two sets of collectors editions that would be indistinguishable from each other except for the data on the disks (which would be a nightmare for future collectors years down the road), etc. seem like a whole lot of hoops (effort, money, etc.) to please like a few hundred people at most. I also imagine most holdouts would sing a different tune if the game was near release or already out since they probably want to play it above else. That's just my opinion on the matter.
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Post by localriot on May 16, 2016 7:05:25 GMT -6
Figuring out who wants to wait for a full version would be as easy as a single question in the survey. They already need to work out which platform people want the game for and that isn't hard. I'd say everybody who backed the digital+physical tier would want to wait for the full physical version.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 16, 2016 7:06:29 GMT -6
That last bit of crocodile 's post is a good point. We're looking at an indeterminate amount of time right now for the game's release. If we were looking at <6 months or so, I imagine a lot of folks would change their mind on waiting...and even moreso once the game is out. We all know how hard it is to avoid spoilers and information we don't yet wish to know once a game/movie/anything else we care about is released. Even successfully dodging such things, the environment of others consuming it is infectious. You can't ignore that big, fun elephant in the room for long...especially not having backed it in good faith a couple of years+ prior. I would commend someone's stoicism for going through that, but I imagine many wouldn't have it end up going well for them. Like crocy said, this is the norm for release models now - and I don't know anyone out of the many I've seen excited for say, Dark Souls 3, who are holding out until the DLC is finished to buy the game as a whole package. I haven't even seen that notion come up. You could say that DS3 is a full game as it was released, and sure enough it is, but arguably even moreso would be Bloodstained. The entirety of the main story will be there at launch. For Souls, more of the story is added, so you're partially missing out on that main content at launch. Bloodstained is mostly stretch goal modes.
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Post by Jango on May 17, 2016 14:54:59 GMT -6
This is an interesting discussion for sure. Game releases just don't work how they used to. Practically every physical game release is incomplete now. Even if all of the game's assets and structures are indeed on the disk, it's rare to find a game without a day-one patch. And often those initial patches can be several gigs in size. However even in the cases where the day-one patch is more modestly sized, the update likely fixes several bugs that the developer has been working to correct between the the time the game "went gold" and the release date. Balance changes are even more of a significant modification that could change the fundamental experience from the ground up, all by changing a few variables.
My point is, changes to a game's code base are just as significant as additional modes, skins, maps, etc. Therefor the only way to purchase a disk-based game that is "complete" is to buy something akin to a "Game of the Year Edition." And honestly, those usually have patches too.
All of this may be a moot point however. I could easily be ill-informed, but has there been confirmation that physical copies of the game would ship at the same time as digital versions? Especially with a staggered-release model, it seems like physical copies would come later when the additional content is complete. Backers who ordered those versions would likely get Steam keys or or codes for access to content digitally as it rolls out, then receive the disk copy later on. That seems like a logical way to satisfy all backers regardless of preferred platform.
While several companies have certainly abused the practice of releasing DLC and less-than-complete products, the staggered model of release is a fantastic way to both extend a game's lifespan AND get the game into user's hands sooner. It's certainly different than console releases used to be. I'm no spring duck or whatever the expression is either. I too remember the "good old days." But I also remember those games often being very short experiences that were prolonged thanks to cheap difficulty tactics. I'm excited about playing Bloodstained over the course of several months rather than devouring the entire experience in a week and then hoping for a sequel in a few years. If we're lucky. That's just me though. People wanting the game in one big content release is very understandable. Let's wait for more info before we get too ahead of ourselves though.
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Post by CastleDan on May 18, 2016 13:11:22 GMT -6
The problem here is the game wouldn't be incomplete and that notion popping up over and over is exhausting because it's not really true.
This isn't a game where the developer takes out a section of the castle and says IT'S A BONUS in a later DLC. We are getting the MAIN game whatever they determine that to be. The amount of modes we are getting in this game are a lot more than most Igavania's to begin with people. The essential main experience is what they want to release first, it makes absolute sense to release that when it's done instead of holding it back a ridiculous amount of time just so every single thing they promised gets finished. Who knows how long that can take but it doesn't seem fair to the MAJORITY of people, it seems like something to cater to the few at the expense of the majority.
A lot of people are excited for an Igavania experience, the main single player story because that's what his games are mainly known for. All the modes are awesome icing on the cake, but there would be a lot of outrage if the game gets delayed month after month after month into another year because of a mode that no one even figured would be getting made to begin with. If you look all over the internet over the outrage directed at Mighty No 9 because they decided to hold off releasing the game to fix up an online component. The comment sections are flooded with, no one even wants to play this game for that reason? Why not just release the game now and patch that in later? Which is EXACTLY what this team is doing for Bloodstained, because it's right for the majority, and it makes sense in this day and age.
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Post by Jango on May 18, 2016 13:49:56 GMT -6
The problem here is the game wouldn't be incomplete and that notion popping up over and over is exhausting because it's not really true. This isn't a game where the developer takes out a section of the castle and says IT'S A BONUS in a later DLC. We are getting the MAIN game whatever they determine that to be. The amount of modes we are getting in this game are a lot more than most Igavania's to begin with people. The essential main experience is what they want to release first, it makes absolute sense to release that when it's done instead of holding it back a ridiculous amount of time just so every single thing they promised gets finished. Who knows how long that can take but it doesn't seem fair to the MAJORITY of people, it seems like something to cater to the few at the expense of the majority. A lot of people are excited for an Igavania experience, the main single player story because that's what his games are mainly known for. All the modes are awesome icing on the cake, but there would be a lot of outrage if the game gets delayed month after month after month into another year because of a mode that no one even figured would be getting made to begin with. If you look all over the internet over the outrage directed at Mighty No 9 because they decided to hold off releasing the game to fix up an online component. The comment sections are flooded with, no one even wants to play this game for that reason? Why not just release the game now and patch that in later? Which is EXACTLY what this team is doing for Bloodstained, because it's right for the majority, and it makes sense in this day and age. I could easily be wrong, but I was assuming the complaints about "completeness" were mostly centered around the physical release. If the game does use a staggered release model the backers that ordered a disk-based copy of the game will either receive the disk at the time of the initial content's release, thus lacking the features that will come later, or they will receive the disk later when all of the content is complete. Like I said though, we're likely getting ahead of ourselves here considering the lack of concrete details.
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